FemmeArt wrote:
I'm a black photographer and model.  I can definitely tell you that it is much tougher for black models to find work.  I just wonder why that is?  Heck, even my portfolio speaks to this trend, but certainly not intentionally.

I've never experienced racism. All the photogs I've worked with worked with me because I was black. Just like there's a niche for runway, fitness, nude whatever, certain photogs are going to seek out the "ethnic" look

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
Okay, racism is getting old.  When I count to 3, everyone grab someone of the opposite sex and another race, and start making babies.

1...
2...
3!

I call an Italian!  But only if his mother makes gnocchi.

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:
Okay, racism is getting old.  When I count to 3, everyone grab someone of the opposite sex and another race, and start making babies.

1...
2...
3!

Ahhh... The tupping of the white ewe. Yes. Tis a very pleasurable experience. I recommend it to any and all of my brothers. It will knock the racist instantaneously from your loins, and certainly from the loins of the "others".

Lighten up people, and please start laughing about this now. And then take Maxwell Digi's advice and grab the nearest non you looking person and... Get busy. Knockin boots. Hittin skins. What ever your particular culture calls it, and let's make the world a nice shade of golden brown!

Unless you're gay, and then you have to adopt. But please don't be an intolerant gay racist. I don't think I could handle that. I really don't.

bang bang photo wrote:

Well Alana, you can giggle all you want, but just because you are "of the minority community" doesn't mean you have a handle on the problem. It's often the case that the people who are closest to a problem are blindest to the solution. I think it's extremely common for people who have a problem they want to solve to not see the solution when it's staring them right in the face.

I'll leave you with one thought on this matter. Whenever I deal with individuals or groups who have a problem they want to solve, they invariably start by pointing the finger at external influences -- things that others must change before the problem can be solved. But it's been my experience that the solution to most problems must start from within. If you want to change something, you MUST BE the change. Very few people truly understand this.

I think right now, most younger Americans, and young black Americans in particular, have a sense of entitlement about what life and the universe "owes" them. They have lost much of the drive for achievement that earlier generations had. I don't know why this is, but I believe it to be true. And as long as people think the universe owes them anything, they're going to end up very disappointed and bitter people.

Where am I getting these things? I've had the privilege of living in the East and the West, the North and the South. I have lived for years in other countries on several continents, including Africa, and have spent a lifetime observing lots of different cultures and groups.

Paul

It says it right here. young african americans feel a sense of entitlement. Privelege can be blinding at times. No one is angry, but we can spot some ignorant shit a mile away.

Emotive Photography wrote:
I am a wedding photographer in addition to fashion.  I am as white as a glass of milk.  I have this to say on this silly subject; 

I have had many people ask me about shooting their wedding.  Once they found I was white they (being African American) decided to go with the Afican American photographer.  This has happened 7 times now.  I do NOT think they are racist for doing this, no more than I am a racist if I shoot a white wedding and NO not Billy Idol!

I have shot 3 black models, and only 3.  Part of this reason is that in Houston, TX there are not many black models, and those who are out there shoot with black photographers.  I feel it is a comfort thing, and a commonality thing more than a race thing.  I wish there were more opportunities to shoot black models, I would relish the opportunity.

FUBU Photographers

Maxwell Digital Art wrote:

FUBU Photographers

What does FUBU mean?

FemmeArt wrote:
Do photographers discriminate against black models?

Not me personally.



But I'll openly admit to discriminating against ignoramuses, dumbasses and dipshits as a general rule...

Emotive Photography wrote:

What does FUBU mean?

ForUsByUs, you know, like the clothing company.

Edwiina wrote:
Ok

Ive had enough

I want to grab the thread by the bull horns here and bring it right back to the question.

The answer is from my experiences so excuse me if you find this hard to beleive.

I work as a fashion model in London, i was signed to a well known agency for 6months after that i decided to leave and be represented by another. . .
Why? well it goes something like this.

After running around london ive constantly being told "you know, you will only get work part time because of your skin tone" "black models dont get much work" "its really hard for a black model" I finally got signed to Agency X (which i wont name). First thing they told me was that i was gonna be a part time model because im black and its not goin to be easy...i said fine and 6months later, i left. The reason i left was because I was forwarded to sooo MANY test shoots and so many castings, so many runway shows etc etc etc that it became a big concern as to why i was still only holding a comp card with 3 ugly polariod pictures on it, that i had to ask my bookers what was up. There answer was "its your skin tone"...

Now although i knew this is the fact, i dont think the non black people actually understand racism. Racism is concious and unconcious, because of stigma, comfort and expectations, the reason why white photographers dont want to use black models for big campaigns is because they have fear that their collaboration with the black model will not fulfill the buyers need because of the shock of not being able to relate to this black image.

We are even constantly pressured to have a weave that is of an european appearance just to get a good picture because nobody knows how to work with our natural hair. I go to shoots and i do my own hair because they only ignorantly know how to work with straight hair.

Runway shows cast about 20 white models and 2 black models MAX.
and guess what, this is what i have learned from WHITE models and later realised to be true.

Why is it that only 2 models at most get casted for top designer shows?

Why is it that my white model friends have numerous castings every single day and me and my black model friends dont?

Why is it that white models have high fashion test shoots and black models get the hair test shoots?

Why is it that when it comes to black models, the names that come to mind is naomi campbell, tyra banks, iman and alek wek. What about the other hundreds?!

And in response to that person who said your not gonna see a white model doing roccawear or something, im sure victoria beckham did a campaign 2years ago. And Apple bottoms are directed at a market for people with BOOTY (hence the name) everybody knows black females are known for having a full round bottom.
So what can you say in defence for Louis Vitton, Gucci, Stella Mccartney, Roberto Cavalli? What market were they aiming for that a black model couldnt reach out to?

Another thing, i do not respect or appreciate people in here taking this thread as a chance to get patronising and jokey about a subject extrememly upsetting to alot of black models and black people in the fashion industry, you need to appreciate that its hard being passionate about something you love that discriminates what you about.

Racism is everywhere ESPECIALLY where image is concerned.

You know what? It is a fucking joke. This entire thread is laughable. What you want is revolution. There is only ONE way to acheive revolution, and that is to revolt. Uprising. A deconstruction of the status quo mechanization that holds all of these institutions in place. Wanna know why there are 20 white runway models, and only two black ones at those shows? Because the people running those shows want it that way. If they didn't then it wouldn't be like that. But it is. So they must. Right?

Until you are either willing to stage peaceful sittins, boycotts, and protests of such events. Or are willing to storm the powers that be by any means neccessary. Shut up, and do the job you chose... as best you can. Or as best as they will allow you to under these very trying circumstances. Either that, or become the CEO of your own company, and you call all the shots. Everything else not one of these choices is futile, redundant, inciting, rhetorical, and ultimately academic. Institiutionally speaking of course.

This whole thing is about acceptance isn't it? About being accepted. About not being picked last, or called names, but truly endeared by those whom we would all consider peers. It hurts. It really does. I'm serious. But you gotta flip the script, and then rewrite it in order for there to be any real or lasting change.

Now who among you is willing to do that?

Oh, and I just looked at your port. You are gorgeous, and just as much the face of Britain as any white model. They are fool's for making it harder for you. Fuck them, they are fool's. Then fight harder if it matters that much.

syl wrote:
Well, I find this forum to be pretty interesting.  I've found that more photographers have a bias based on sex than race.   They will tend to work at better rates with females than with males.

On another note, yes racism exists to this day.  It's not as open as it was in the 1950's it's more low key.   People don't go out of their way and call you a "nigger" anymore, it's more on a hush "i won't associate myself with them" atmosphere.  With this I feel it's best to be aware of it, but to also rise above it. 


  With photographers, there exists a duality in that it comes down to what will make clients happy as well as population.  Blacks account for about 10% of the US population, while latino's are around 11%.   White's are around 70% and the rest divided.   Going by the numbers you're bound to see more whites than other groups.


In terms of fair skinned blacks or blacks with caucasian features.  I'd have to disagree to a degree.  There are numerous Nubian African high fashion models (as oppossed to East African - ethopian, somalian, sudanese whom have more caucasian features) who have made it in the industry. Granted they work more in Europe than in America.

  I do agree with haydn in that bi-racial individuals tend to receive more racism directed towards them than they would from whites.  I have found that this is more of the case during the childhood to teenage years rather than the adult years.

  I simply try to be the best possible subject, by coming on time and being prepared.   I listen, observe, learn and play the role that i'm directed to play by the photographer.

And that is all there is to it. I agree one hundred percent with Syl. Rise above it work to change it by being the best you can. That is what I have tried to do my whole career. Some wont admit there is a problem,some cant admit it,others refuse to see it no matter how you show it to them and others spend too much time dwelling on the issue. I dont think its photographers as a rule but what people will pay to view and print. You need only view a magazine stand and the evidense is right in front of you. That being said should it change? I dont know,when the white population is over run by other races in the near future you may see a change, maybe not..cause you know we all like lookin at dem white women.

CICADA MOTION PICTURES wrote:

Really, minorities have contributed to American culture? You mean Rock-n-roll, jazz, hip-hop, be bop, scat, blues, soul, r&b, breakdancing, and krump weren't invented by white people?! Alana, read these words carefully as they are being written by A BLACK PHOTOGRAPHER. I understand perfectly what you are saying. What "I" am saying is at what point would you consider so called more representation enough? If not 50%, then 49% perhaps? Or maybe 42.7896235365343%. What I'm saying is, when will anyone be completely satisfied by how much they are out there for the world to see?

You see all that shit I just mentioned up above? The majority in this country liked all of that stuff so much, that they took it, all! That's what a majority does. I am saying that it'll never be more even, or more to your liking I suppose, until the minority, is the majority. Does that make any sense? For examples of this look at why it's an issue for you to begin with. Hopefully you will see now.

And for the record, in my extended portfolio as well as my photo project featured on this site I have blacks, whites, asians, hispanics, old people, young people, disabled people, and little kids.

No actually it doesn't make sense because that is a cop out. The majority thing is b.s. We aren't talking about a country where the majority is going to find appealing to what they are only use to seeing outside of their little world. We aren't living in Nigeria nor are we living in Germany. We are living in a country where you are going to see just as many minority faces in crowd as you are going to see white faces. Regardless of whites being the majority.

We have to go back in history here. The perception of beauty here in this country started out as a racial thing. While times and the rules have changed, the origins of it hasn't. It's just incognito.


As one model stated on here, a white female model at that. Even with many of the black models, there is some type of European/white look to them which is why they appeal or succeed in the industry more than others. An example of that look would be a MM model on here by the name pf Tara Angel. Tara is an attractive model, but if it weren't for those octaroon features, and less Negroid features, her getting exposure would be alot harder.

This example that I'm giving isn't a generalisation example, because there are individual photographers on here and other places who do shoot black models with less white features. But in the mainstream industry, the issue of European look continues without the exception of the Sudanese supermodel. But for her, the look is more of a fad/different look that isn't the norm in the business. More like for some like a mascot. A pink poodle. But she still is attractive, but her look isn't common in the industry and won't see alot of it neither.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:

I think you're getting a little bent out of shape over nothing, really.

No she's not. And that's what the big problem is. People observing it as nothing. It's no more different than you stating sometime back when the issue of comedy came up and favorite comedians. You addressed what you like, but at the sametime addressed that you don't like comedians who crack racial jokes. While I looked at that as irrelevant to the op's question, you addressed it. I can look at that as getting a little bent out of shape for nothing. But I didn't. The stylist has some very valid points here. But if you are just looking at it from one angle, then you'll never understand if it is serious or not.

Legacys 7 wrote:
No actually it doesn't make sense because that is a cop out. The majority thing is b.s. We aren't talking about a country where the majority is going to find appealing to what they are only use to seeing outside of their little world. We aren't living in Nigeria nor are we living in Germany. We are living in a country where you are going to see just as many minority faces in crowd as you are going to see white faces. Regardless of whites being the majority.

We have to go back in history here. The perception of beauty here in this country started out as a racial thing. While times and the rules have changed, the origins of it hasn't. It's just incognito.


As one model stated on here, a white female model at that. Even with many of the black models, there is some type of European/white look to them which is why they appeal or succeed in the industry more than others. An example of that look would be a MM model on here by the name pf Tara Angel. Tara is an attractive model, but if it weren't for those octaroon features, and less Negroid features, her getting exposure would be alot harder.

This example that I'm giving isn't a generalisation example, because there are individual photographers on here and other places who do shoot black models with less white features. But in the mainstream industry, the issue of European look continues without the exception of the Sudanese supermodel. But for her, the look is more of a fad/different look that isn't the norm in the business. More like for some like a mascot. A pink poodle. But she still is attractive, but her look isn't common in the industry and won't see alot of it neither.

My friend this is not about how many different cultures exist together in crowds in this country. It is plainly, and simply about who is in power, and how they choose to exhibit that power, and control. That's what it's about.

So none of the rest of that matters. At the end of the day almost half the people in the country don't want war, but it's the guy with his finger on the pulse of power that will call the last shot in the end. Unless there is a revolution. I hope you can read between the lines on the metaphor, I am still very much on topic.

Allen Coefield wrote:

So white models that don't want to shoot with you are fools?
LOL...
ok folks....here we go!!!

Nice try on trying to spin the photographers point. What an a##33e. You failed to addressed the other stuff that the photographer addressed.

Allen Coefield wrote:
I wonder how many white models have ever said........"I know I didn't get the job because I am white!!"
Truth is...some may be able to say it...but do you see them whining about it? Nope..move on...another day another job

Probably not your intention, but this is kinda discounting the fact that blacks face just a tad bit more racism than the average white model...

Racism exists....  we need not embrace it, but we can't ignore it...  a revolution is not necessary, just simple acknowlegement...  then move on...  another day, another job...

Cspine wrote:
I discriminate against illiterate transgendered homosexual eskimo dwarfs. I'd feel uncomfortable sharing a drinking fountain with one, they should have their own.




I glad to hear that I though I as the only one
and I really hate it when they have frozen snot hanging out of their nose.


-kidding-

Alana Skye wrote:
ebony, jet, and king etc. are exclusively minority mags for the most part. I think Haydn is referring to the lack of balance in fashion and beauty mags that in the mainstream.

Agree, which is why we have minority magazines because for so many years the minority have been left out of the majority magazines. Some people know this, but they think that they know everything and can't accept the fact that they don't have all of the answers or could be wrong.

Dumas Photography wrote:

Probably not your intention, but this is kinda discounting the fact that blacks face just a tad bit more racism than the average white model...

Racism exists....  we need not embrace it, but we can't ignore it...  a revolution is not necessary, just simple acknowlegement...  then move on...  another day, another job...

Revolution simply means change. It is absolutely neccessary if you want to combat it. But if   all I have to do is acknowledge it then move on... *ahem*... here goes... RACISM... EXISTS. There. Acknowledged. Now moving on. My mama always told me that when it starts to look like me outside, it's time to come in the house.

Peace, means, peace, means, peace see you later! Later, later, later alligator! -various Tribesman, and those pesky Leaders of the New School!

Dave Wright Photo wrote:
wrong.

How in the world is this wrong? Asia has a huge market for stage productions and movies featuring asian people, as well as commercial marketing and imagery. And do we not have Bollywood in India that features a vastly middle-eastern/asian crowd?

Late Bloomer Studios wrote:

My friend this is not about how many different cultures exist together in crowds in this country. It is plainly, and simply about who is in power, and how they choose to exhibit that power, and control. That's what it's about.

So none of the rest of that matters. At the end of the day almost half the people in the country don't want war, but it's the guy with his finger on the pulse of power that will call the last shot in the end. Unless there is a revolution. I hope you can read between the lines on the metaphor, I am still very much on topic.

Actually, that is what I said indirectly. But what I also addressed which is my main point to the person who I was replying to is, that it's not about a majority of faces. But about that being a cop out in a majority population living in a large minority population. Let's get real here, which is my point. We are not living in Germany or Nigeria. White folks aren't living in this country were every face that they see is Sarah, Becky or Sue. You walk around you'll see a Lakesha. Kim Lee, Roxanne Gonzales, etc..So yeap power and control is the reason behind what we have. and a large part of that equals racism.

AdamtheJohnson wrote:
Only racists make issues like this baout race.

Damn. Exactly what I said earlier lol. Except I got bashed for it.

3rd Floor Photography wrote:

How in the world is this wrong? Asia has a huge market for stage productions and movies featuring asian people, as well as commercial marketing and imagery. And do we not have Bollywood in India that features a vastly middle-eastern/asian crowd?

Here's the flaw in your argument with that point. China and India are primarily a Indian and Chinese majority population. In this country, white is the majority, but this country has a large minority population. You can't compare those two countries to the U.S.

3rd Floor Photography wrote:

Damn. Exactly what I said earlier lol. Except I got bashed for it.

Sad scapegoat. So that also means that every women who are fighting for their rights to live the sameway as men are feminazis? Let's get real here, this racism topics have been done over and over on this website and have been pirmarily intiated by whites on here. So I'm going to assume that you are going to say that they are racist too. Right?

Discussing a topic doesn't always equate to what you think and feel. If anything the only thing that I got out of that statement was that the person who made that statement is just ducking and dodging the truth.

BLoPhoto wrote:
Don't the moderators normally lock redundant threads? I have seen this question or some variation of it numerous times. I though protocol was to research whether or not the subject has been covered as not to "beat a dead horse". Oh well, I guess I should have known what happens when one assumes...

Well guess what? Photography is a dead horse. So is opening ones mouth to say anything that has ever been said before, which pretty much amounts to everything. There are new people who want to see the game that they missed on sunday cause they had to work. Perhaps there will be something valid or relevant to come of it from a new voice. Perhaps not. My point is, if this thread is of no interest to you, then peace. Let others tire of this dead horse for themselves.

Or if the mere sight of it sickens thee with so foul, and bitter a taste spew it forth from thine gaping maw, and run and tell a moderator, so that you no longer have to sully your eyes with such redundancy.

BLoPhoto wrote:
Don't the moderators normally lock redundant threads? I have seen this question or some variation of it numerous times. I though protocol was to research whether or not the subject has been covered as not to "beat a dead horse". Oh well, I guess I should have known what happens when one assumes...

Yeah, but when the mods let topics like 'big dicks and hummers' roll by and don't lock them up, it makes one think. So no, this topic shouldn't get locked up unless it gets out of hand. 'Big dicks and hummers' on the other hand should've been locked up on the intial post.

Legacys 7 wrote:
Sad scapegoat. So that also means that every women who are fighting for their rights to live the sameway as men are feminazis? Let's get real here, this racism topics have been done over and over on this website and have been pirmarily intiated by whites on here. So I'm going to assume that you are going to say that they are racist too. Right?

Discussing a topic doesn't always equate to what you think and feel. If anything the only thing that I got out of that statement was that the person who made that statement is just ducking and dodging the truth.

*sigh*. Refer to what my rebuttal was when I initially said the post.

Look, I am a woman, and I'm a minority race. I know what it's like to be victimized and looked differently upon. I make it my future career to defend those who are domestically abused, I have friends who have been terrorized for their skin color. I have friends from Yemen who are currently socially targeted because they look middle eastern. I have to endure a lot of taunts from people growing up because my best friend and I were of different races. She was black, I was asian- mix. I have friends who are black, asian, mexican, middle eastern, white, etc. etc. My own mother couldn't get a job because of racial discrimination in that particular work force. I know what real issues are so don't think that I ignore them or toss them aside. There is a big difference between that, and people that want to try to make race a part of every single issue just for attention- which is what I was referring to in my original post.