Image K wrote:
I have a former co-worker that knows that I'm a photographer. She has asked me to shoot some shots with her.
Last week, she cancelled because she got her days confused with another prior commitment.
Today, she overslept. We were supposed to shoot at 1pm. That's when she decided to call me to cancel. She went to bed at 4am. (11 hrs of sleep).
She lost her job because of attendance problems. She recently lost another job 3 weeks after getting it. She claimed that she had a tiff with the boss.
Thinking back on this, she has rarely been reliable about anything that we have ever planned. Other mutual friends have had similar experiences with her.

This is not a "Why do models flake"? thread. We have beaten that to death. There are tons of reliable models, and they get a bad rap because of the few that can't be counted on.

My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

Should I give her another chance?

My qu

Give her another chance but require a deposit before you schedule.  If she won't pay, she won't shoot.  If she pays & shows up, she gets the deposit back.  If she cancels within 24 hours of the shoot, you keep it and go have a nice dinner and drinks on her.

Image K wrote:
My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

Should I give her another chance?

My qu

Hell no.

2 Strikes Yer Out.

Image K wrote:
My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

Flakes know that they're flakes. They just think they can get by being one. Which they usually can... It causes some added inconvience to their lives, but they deal with it. Because they don't have to be on time...

J Schumacher wrote:

Hell no.

2 Strikes Yer Out.

Normally, it's one strike and you're out.

But it's a friend that I have had for 4 years.

That's the dynamic that makes this difficult.

Image K wrote:
That is an outstanding idea that had never occured to me!

It would work great on a girl that models. But I feel kind of apprehensive about asking an unemployed friend with 2 kids for a refundable deposit.

I was actually going to pay her $50.00/hr for 2 hrs. Basically, because I know that she really needs the money.

No good deed goes unpunished!

She just wants pretty pictures.  She will never be a model. Do not pay her for chrissakes. Clients pay models and sometimes artists. What is your time worth? The two times she flaked on you should be billable.

Alex Davenport wrote:
If she hasn't learned her lesson after being fired from two jobs, she never will. Don't give her another chance or you are just letting her continue to think that she isn't doing anything wrong.

VERY true.

I need to be honest with her about herself.

I may lose a friend, but maybe she will take a closer look at herself.

Image K wrote:

Normally, it's one strike and you're out.

But it's a friend that I have had for 4 years.

That's the dynamic that makes this difficult.

That's true.... lately it's one strike for me too, unless I particularly want to work with someone .... then they get two. But friends, yep, that's a problem.

Marc Rosebeck wrote:
My thought, stay friend's with her, don't ever agree to shoot with her again. I'd probally not discuss her flakiness if you will, she surely know's already. Just my opoinion of course.

Good luck,

Marc

This makes the most sense. It's just so difficult to maintain a friendship with someone that can't be relied upon.

Image K wrote:
She lost her job because of attendance problems. She recently lost another job 3 weeks after getting it. She claimed that she had a tiff with the boss.
Thinking back on this, she has rarely been reliable about anything that we have ever planned. Other mutual friends have had similar experiences with her.

Image K wrote:
Should I give her another chance?

Uhhh, do you really need an answer to that?

Jakki Browne wrote:
Friends are supposed to help each other out.  If she was truly a friend she's have a little more respect for your time.  Just because you've known her for 4 years doesn't mean she's a good friend.  I learned (the hard way) that even someone you've known for over 10 years can take advantage of you.  I think you should have an honest talk with her and if she can't take your honesty then you should go your seperate ways.

Bingo!

This is the advice that I'm taking!

People that flake have no consideration, or respect for your time. I've had it.

Taylor Photography wrote:

Image K wrote:
She lost her job because of attendance problems. She recently lost another job 3 weeks after getting it. She claimed that she had a tiff with the boss.
Thinking back on this, she has rarely been reliable about anything that we have ever planned. Other mutual friends have had similar experiences with her.

Uhhh, do you really need an answer to that?

No, I suppose not.

When you work with someone for years, laugh at the same jokes, deal with the same dysfunctional customers, and share experiences, it's not that easy.

Rossi Photography wrote:
I touched up that shot for you and forgot to post it. Sorry.. What you said about 'manly features'... I did notice that and fixed the deep smile lines. Looks better. I'll post it in a few...

But, yeah.. I also say deposit before the shoot is booked. That's what I'm doing. And noooooooo... don't pay her. No, no, no....

Thanks, Jodie.

I really shouldn't pay her. But I know that she's going through a difficult time right now, and I was trying to be helpful.

I usually don't pay models. This would have been the first.

Do you ever pay models?

Image K wrote:

Normally, it's one strike and you're out.

But it's a friend that I have had for 4 years.

That's the dynamic that makes this difficult.

ImageK? Why do you ponder this and continue to address the term 'firend'? If he or she is your friend then they wouldn't keep doing this to you.

Man damn that friend b.s. If she's a friend, then she'll understand. And also, either you are looking for a solution or an excuse to your existing problem. Which one is it?

My answer, don't bother with her anymore because all that is going to do is piss you off. And, charge a fee for your future models that can be refunded back to them.

Legacys 7 wrote:

ImageK? Why do you ponder this and continue to address the term 'firend'? If he or she is your friend then they wouldn't keep doing this to you.

Man damn that friend b.s. If she's a friend, then she'll understand. And also, either you are looking for a solution or an excuse to your existing problem. Which one is it?

My answer, don't bother with her anymore because all that is going to do is piss you off. And, charge a fee for your future models that can be refunded back to them.

Your point is well taken, my friend.

I suppose that I am looking for some sort of validation.

I have a soft spot for my friends.

It's my biggest fault.

Image K wrote:
This is a picture of her that I took at work about a year ago. Some people think that she has manly features. I think that she has a unique look, and a great body!

Man, don't be a sucker.

Image K wrote:

Your point is well taken, my friend.

I suppose that I am looking for some sort of validation.

I have a soft spot for my friends.

It's my biggest fault.

Friend are suppose to be able to tell it like it is and understand. If they don't, they aren't a friend. I only have a few friends. The rest are associates. Associates are primarily for business. Friends are a small group for me because freinds are rare. Those, I can count on my hand. People get friends and associates mixed up. I don't believe in keeping alot of company.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
*beware of implied sexism below*

I'm no doctor, but it sounds like a pattern of behavior to me.  She dosen't seem to think she should be accountable to anyone for any reason, and that she can smile, flip her hair, bat her eyes and suddenly every guy around [including you] will start thinking with the little head instead of the big one and give her a[nother] last chance. 

To make a long story short, kick her to the curb...There has to be someone else in Nevada who'll take their clothes off for you.

Well stated. And, very true.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Friend are suppose to be able to tell it like it is and understand. If they don't, they aren't a friend. I only have a few friends. The rest are associates. Associates are primarily for business. Friends are a small group for me because freinds are rare. Those, I can count on my hand. People get friends and associates mixed up. I don't believe in keeping alot of company.

VERY true.

I generally know the difference between friends and associates.

I guess I'm no different than a lot of other men. When I'm attracted superficially to someone, I tend to give them more chances.

Image K wrote:
My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

You don't; that would be hurtful.  I'm sure she, like most of us, are well aware of our character flaws.

Image K wrote:
Should I give her another chance?

Nope.

Image K wrote:

VERY true.

I generally know the difference between friends and associates.

I guess I'm no different than a lot of other men. When I'm attracted superficially to someone, I tend to give them more chances.

Not me my man. I don't play that game. And will set it straight. Move on from her. There are plenty of models who are serious and will take you serious. Your time is valuable. If you don't get it now, you'll eventually get it, but only when it really hurts and it takes longer for you to recover from the injury.

Ought To Be Shot wrote:

Image K wrote:
My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

You don't; that would be hurtful.  I'm sure she, like most of us, are well aware of our character flaws.


Nope.

I'm sure that's true to some extent.

She may not understand the extent of how hurtful her behavior is on others.

Image K wrote:

Thanks, Jodie.

I really shouldn't pay her. But I know that she's going through a difficult time right now, and I was trying to be helpful.

I usually don't pay models. This would have been the first.

Do you ever pay models?

Well, sounds like you have a good heart.

No, I've never paid a model.

Rossi Photography wrote:

Well, sounds like you have a good heart.

No, I've never paid a model.

Your work is so good, you don't need to pay anyone.

Are you going to post that retouch here, or on the "retouch thread"?

Image K wrote:

I'm sure that's true to some extent.

She may not understand the extent of how hurtful her behavior is on others.

I'm glad that you replied to that the correct way. It amazes me how sensitive people can be when it comes to being afraid of telling others about their actions. But allow those to continue to play their games. If it needs to be told, tell it. But in this case, I'd just move on. BUT, if she ask why, then you tell her and move on.

Image K wrote:

Your work is so good, you don't need to pay anyone.

Are you going to post that retouch here, or on the "retouch thread"?

Awww... Why thank you! Lol...

Yeah, I'll go post it. I'm very forgetful. Especially in these forums. I get sidetracked easily.

Image K wrote:
My question is this: How do you tell someone that they are a flake, and if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything?

Should I give her another chance?

My take -- let her know how her "flakiness" has impacted you.  "I spent all morning setting up, and you canceled at the last minute."  "I had an opportunity to , but instead I waited for you."  "I get nervous when a model doesn't show up on time, and that impacts my ability to create good photographs".  etc.

I wouldn't bother with any of the "if they don't change their ways, they will never amount to anything" lecture.  If they are smart enough to realize that, they'd get some help &/or change their ways.  If they are not smart enough to realize that, well, then they are probably hopeless.

I believe that there is a class of person who is good looking or has charisma or has doting parents, and sometimes, these people have learned early on that they can get away with crap like this.  As they get older, they enter the world of adults, and they can't coast on their good looks or their party attitude. 

It's not our job to "educate" them -- life will do that without our help.  That's why I think the best we can do is to keep the conversation personal & let them know about the impact to you from the choices they made.

And I wouldn't give anyone a third chance to flake on me.  Once may be forgivable, but twice in a row is a trend, and no matter what she says, we have no reason to believe that she wouldn't flake the third time.

Legacys 7 wrote:

I'm glad that you replied to that the correct way. It amazes me how sensitive people can be when it comes to being afraid of telling others about their actions. But allow those to continue to play their games. If it needs to be told, tell it. But in this case, I'd just move on. BUT, if she ask why, then you tell her and move on.

I appreciate your input.

Image K wrote:
Should I give her another chance?

Fool me once, shame on you!
Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME!


Those old Chinese proverbs are pretty good.
Put that one in a fortune cookie.

Click Hamilton wrote:

Fool me once, shame on you!
Fool me twice, SHAME ON ME!


Those old Chinese proverbs are pretty good.
Put that one in a fortune cookie.

Amen!