Yuriy wrote:
These stories continue because of people such as yourself perpetuating the stories.

The stories continue because they continue to HAPPEN, when photographers jerk newer impressionable models around. I posted this because I just heard of a photog who did this to another model just recently, both of whom are on this forum. 

A model flaking is annoying, but that's not half as bad as a photographers who intentionally exploit a naive model.

arianna77 wrote:
I had this one sleazy photog, who was clearly a GWC...it was a paid shoot, and now I'm pretty sure he only photographs pretty girls for his personal wank file.  Anyways, he insisted on HANDING his camera to another photog, whom I trust and was part lending his studio to this guy and part there as my unofficial escort, and having that photog take shots of him picking me up over his shoulder.  The pictures were all total crap, and the guy gave me the creeps like crazy.  Most of the creepiness was just a "vibe", but the whole over the shoulder thing was really wierd. In retrospect I wish I hadn't done it, but unfortunately it was just about the first thing he wanted to shoot, and I hadn't quite figured out how bad he was yet.  Especially since I've found out that he does that with EVERY model he works with.  I've talked to a few other models who said the same thing about the guy.  Needless to say I don't plan on shooting with him again like, ever.

the sad thing? none of these photographers would survive if anyone did even 1/2 the homework they should be doing before accepting a shoot.

how about some sleezy photog stories instead of dumb-as-a-shoe model stories?

and nope it is NOT the job of other photographers to play white knight and perpetuate the negative image photographers are acquiring. if you want to do something, go after the photographers directly, and encourage the models reporting to you to call the law.

James Jackson wrote:
I would wager that most of those are in fact not true but from the collective imagination.

You're in denial. It happens, I've made friends with models who have provided their accounts, and I have every reason to believe them. Not every story is true, but I hope you're not implying most the models are lying.

PS. I'm dismayed that so early in the thread, photogs are already denying this happens. Try talking to your models. You may be surprised.

PPS. The other thing I notice is so many photogs are hammering on the models for not being more careful or doing their homework. There's a first time for modeling, and the average model is only 18-22 years old. Let's be realistic about how worldly you were when you were 18, rather than judging someone after 10-20 years of experience.

I can already tell this thread is not going to make me popular, but this has bothered me for a long time...

nathan combs wrote:
hear is the thing some times things happen like yesterday i had scouted 2 locations to photo a model (Emilee MM#166518) and both where unusable so i had to set up in my dinning room and improvise this made me LOOK bad but i had no other other choice she drove almost 100 miles to get hear and i WILL get hear some usable photos i would also like to say she was SOOOOO COOL and understanding about it but if it was some one else not so cool i get blasted for being a GWC

Wow! this must be the longest sentence I've ever read!

Rue 99 wrote:
…
PS. I'm dismayed that so early in the thread, photogs are already denying this happens. Try talking to your models. You may be surprised.

PPS. The other thing I notice is so many photogs are hammering on the models for not being more careful or doing their homework. There's a first time for modeling, and the average model is only 18-22 years old. Let's be realistic about how worldly you were when you were 18, rather than judging someone after 10-20 years of experience.
…

1. I don’t deny that it occurs. There are people that fuck someone over everyday in all professions and walks of life. It doesn’t mean I just go around talking about it. I have better shit to do.
You want to help? Educate your models, help them, and not propagate fear and misunderstanding. Most of those ‘situations’ are usually caused by a misunderstanding on some level.
2. These stories cause more harm than good.
3. Actually, I find the “average model” is between 16-23 years old (Although, commercial models range to all ages, shapes, and sizes).
4. At 18 I was intelligent enough to know how to stay out of a bad situation. If I found myself in one I acted accordingly.
So far I am still alive, with no major injuries, and more knowledge than I had at 18. You live and you learn. At 18 years old you are an adult; it’s time for these kids to start acting like it.
A good quote for the occasion:
“Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.” – Jim Horning

Happy Shooting,
-D-

Iris Swope wrote:
Off Topic
I heard that someone put blood in the ketchup at Wendys...
But I knew better...because people like telling stupid freaking stories!!!

I thought that was flies in the microwave.....that must have been the Canadian version

Iris Swope wrote:
Can we start a thread about people who had bad dates, and were molested by their dates....? Please...

Interesting idea..I wonder if so many would come forward with those stories...

Iris Swope wrote:
Off Topic
I heard that someone put blood in the ketchup at Wendys...
But I knew better...because people like telling stupid freaking stories!!!


Can we start a thread about people who had bad dates, and were molested by their dates....? Please...
And while we're at it...All females should bring escorts on all dates.... and maybe guys too.
I bet these girls wouldn't like that idea...

wait wait... i know... a thread on the instances of models being eaten alive by their genitalia while admiring it without a mirror?

or or or ... the attack of the wayward penis... a post viagra disease that has seen the bludgeoning by priapistic meat of myriad innocents...

and while we're at it... what about putting a models head on a piccie i screen capped from a reaaally nasty porno flick with underaged horses and dogs and pigs and chickens. nasty... even lohan turned down that part.

Yuriy wrote:
There are people that fuck someone over everyday in all professions and walks of life. It doesn’t mean I just go around talking about it. I have better shit to do.

If I see something's wrong, I talk about it and let others know. That's the purpose of boards like these. If we're only going to communicate one-on-one, we might as well not have MM or books for that matter.

Yuriy wrote:
2. These stories cause more harm than good.

This reminds me of the mentality that people had towards sexual harassment and assault 30 years ago. All sorts of reasons ranging from it's the girl's fault, she should have known better, how do you expect guys to behave, let sleeping dogs lie, etc. Keeping things hidden doesn't solve anything. 

Yuriy wrote:
At 18 years old you are an adult; it’s time for these kids to start acting like it.

I'd apply this statement to photographers as well.

oldguysrule wrote:
how about some sleezy photog stories instead of dumb-as-a-shoe model stories?

and nope it is NOT the job of other photographers to play white knight and perpetuate the negative image photographers are acquiring. if you want to do something, go after the photographers directly, and encourage the models reporting to you to call the law.

You know, I'm sure you were new at what you were doing once too.  The fact that I was VERY new at modelling and had been hooked up with this guy through another photographer that I trusted does not mean that my intelligence is any lower than yours.  Knowing what I know now, I never would have even done the shoot, pay or no pay.  Live and learn.  However, the undeniable fact is that he WAS skeevy.  At least I had the sense not to be in the studio alone with him. But of course, for this I'll get flamed, because escorts are bad, and models should never bring them.

Madam Nirvana wrote:
and also scared of my head being pasted on some nude body

I keep seeing this lately in the forums.  Where did this little bit of paranoia come from?

I'm pretty good with PS, and I've done this a couple times as a joke with close friends, but I can tell you it's much easier to just find a model willing to pose nude than it is to cut 'n paste a head and make it look realistic.

LarryB wrote:

I keep seeing this lately in the forums.  Where did this little bit of paranoia come from?

I'm pretty good with PS, and I've done this a couple times as a joke with close friends, but I can tell you it's much easier to just find a model willing to pose nude than it is to cut 'n paste a head and make it look realistic.

I'm thinking there's a paranoia virus the government is distributing via BigMacs, dairy products and diet coke.

There is no other rational explanation for the level of fear being exhibited on the boards this last week.

LarryB wrote:

I keep seeing this lately in the forums.  Where did this little bit of paranoia come from?

I'm pretty good with PS, and I've done this a couple times as a joke with close friends, but I can tell you it's much easier to just find a model willing to pose nude than it is to cut 'n paste a head and make it look realistic.

Heck ya...sounds like another internet urban myths...it takes alot of skill and work to "paste" someone's head onto another body and make it look like the lighting was the same, color tone, etc...why would anyone bother when there's alot of other stock photos that they could use instead?

Madam Nirvana wrote:
Im wary about signing things -- and also scared of my head being pasted on some nude body

With all the nude models out there, I can't believe anybody is still worried about this.  Do you really think you're so fabulously, uncommonly beautiful that a photographer simply has to staple your head onto one of the Barbie Twins? 
I really thought this particular bit or paranoia went out with leg-warmers and pastel flannel suits.

KM von Seidl wrote:

I'm thinking there's a paranoia virus the government is distributing via BigMacs, dairy products and diet coke.

There is no other rational explanation for the level of fear being exhibited on the boards this last week.

Sadly, it's up here in Canada too...wait a second...it's a global conspiracy...McDonald's is working with them..and distributing it worldwide!

Madam Nirvana wrote:
Is stock photography bad? I would feel exploited if I ended up on a adult product for example- Im in the 18-22 range- Im wary about signing things -- and also scared of my head being pasted on some nude body -- I can control my limits, but what does one look for other than a decent port and references  to spot trouble? Someone please exaplain the good and bad of stock to me aswell.

Thank you

Stop worrying about the old "post the head on an other body" sitaution. I dont see it happening. If you focus on paranoia then sometjing will happen. The sky isn't always falling. Look at the prospective photographers work, if you like it then go for it. Read over the releases before signing, maybe ask for a copy. Yes, it really is that simple. There are no guarantees but thats life!

Yuriy wrote:
If I work with inexperienced models I will discuss with them what is expected, what should be unexpected and how to behave if they disagree with something (like an advance, unprofessional comment, etc).
These kinds of topics however make many models paranoid and frankly unreasonable to deal with. Thank you internet revolution.

Yuriy,
You are so right on!  I think a lot of you are missing his point.  It's different if a model posts a specific incident that actually happened to him/her than  someone stirring shit up by making up broad and general scenarios to set people off.  Another thing I hate is these superior arrogant photographers who feel it's their job to criticize another photographer's work when it's no one's place to judge or put down.  I can understand constructive but not destructive comments.  And what's with everyone being a spell and grammar check bitch?  We aren't sending White house memos here? What is the big fuckin' deal?  Get a life people!

And what's with everyone being a spell and grammar check bitch?  We aren't sending White house memos here? What is the big fuckin' deal?  Get a life people!

My typing generally sucks....

and I have not had any scarring nightmare experiences in the past decade with photographers...

I also think for my self, am not easily manipulated.

Melvin Moten Jr wrote:
Do you really think you're so fabulously, uncommonly beautiful that a photographer simply has to staple your head onto one of the Barbie Twins?

Geesh, now I have to clean my damn drink off of the monitor!

KM von Seidl wrote:
I guess since we're sharing...
And lastly, I heard that if you see someone driving around at night with their headlights off, you shouldn't flick your highbeams on them.  There's apparently a gang of photographers, so traumatized by years of strobes, that when they see lights flashed at them, go crazy and start shooting people up.   I know this one for a fact because it happened to me.  Well, it happened to someone I know!

lol! No, you did not just say that!!!! Traumatized by strobes....
I like where this thread is going

Rue 99 wrote:
...
This reminds me of the mentality that people had towards sexual harassment and assault 30 years ago. All sorts of reasons ranging from it's the girl's fault, she should have known better, how do you expect guys to behave, let sleeping dogs lie, etc. Keeping things hidden doesn't solve anything. 
...

First an explanation than something to consider.
I am not saying to keep things hidden. Going to the proper authorities is one thing. But what happens between your attorneys and the press is generates is just that. Spreading things on the internet opens you to many liabilities because most models don’t have the tact to post it in a professional manner.
They start to make assumptions and begin to slander photographers. Sometimes they deserve it, and sometimes they do not.

Now the consideration.
Many months ago I spoke to a certain model in private because of what she posted regarding a certain photographer. Due to a miscommunication she believed he acted inappropriately while he in fact did not. She went [online] with a not so cool head and slandered his name in several internet forums; she even started a thread on how photographers are assholes.
What would you do in such a situation?

Some here would agree with the model, some with the photographer. Me? I think the model should have immediately brought up the problem with the photographer (diffuse the situation, prevent miscommunication, etc.). If you think that I have an “ignorance is bliss” attitude, then you are quite mistaken.
But irrationality and a tongue that speaks before having the time to think an action through thoroughly will get you into shit real quick.

Rue 99 wrote:

You're in denial. It happens, I've made friends with models who have provided their accounts, and I have every reason to believe them. Not every story is true, but I hope you're not implying most the models are lying.

PS. I'm dismayed that so early in the thread, photogs are already denying this happens. Try talking to your models. You may be surprised.

PPS. The other thing I notice is so many photogs are hammering on the models for not being more careful or doing their homework. There's a first time for modeling, and the average model is only 18-22 years old. Let's be realistic about how worldly you were when you were 18, rather than judging someone after 10-20 years of experience.

I can already tell this thread is not going to make me popular, but this has bothered me for a long time...

Kudos to that!

Rue 99 wrote:

You're in denial. It happens, I've made friends with models who have provided their accounts, and I have every reason to believe them. Not every story is true, but I hope you're not implying most the models are lying.

PS. I'm dismayed that so early in the thread, photogs are already denying this happens. Try talking to your models. You may be surprised.

PPS. The other thing I notice is so many photogs are hammering on the models for not being more careful or doing their homework. There's a first time for modeling, and the average model is only 18-22 years old. Let's be realistic about how worldly you were when you were 18, rather than judging someone after 10-20 years of experience.

I can already tell this thread is not going to make me popular, but this has bothered me for a long time...

You know, one time long ago in a galaxy far away, there was a thing, known as "the women's movement."   The idea was novel, it was that women might have equal rights to men, and, to empower women on both a personal and political level.

That movement is basically dead.   Talk about anything remotely empowering of women and there is a right wing talking head flame throwing stereotypes of man hating hairy lesbians.  It's a joke.  And apparently this country likes it that way.

So, what you have, is a generation of women who often times, unless they go away to school and take Women's Studies 101 can lack a framework for knowing boundaries, articulating them and protecting them if violated.   In the internet culture, White knights and sluggos fill the void.

Telling tales of BIG bad photographers is helpful in the sense that it MIGHT make some women aware that some people might be bad, or that some guy might act inappropriately in a sexual or violent manner.  Ok.   That's like every other story on Dateline and 20/20.  It's like the nightly news.

NOW WHAT.

Rue 99 wrote:
Model found by a phtoographer, then photographer takes control of her profiles here and OMP, including email. Then uses subtle intimidation tactics to ensure she keeps shooting with him, and uses the comments about the crappy photos to "prove" she should keep working with him.

Now gang, let's be fair to the OP, the SLUGGO situation described above IS all too common & we KNOW it happens all the time.
Much more often than the virtually non-existent "photograoher assaulted me/pressured me in to doing something I didn't want to do" stories.
Models SHOULD be warned away from SLUGGOS.

As far as that asinine "my head on someone's body" bit...WHY???
I mean SERIOUSLY
Unless you're FAMOUS why would I bother stealing YOUR face to put it on a body when there're SO many people out there willing to show their face with their naked body?  (Not that I would ever shoot with you if you wouldn't pose nude, anyway, since this bit of paranoia is ALL too common in models who say "no nudes"...what's why you don't see it Melvin, you don't work with non-nude girls).
Really people, do you think your face is SO hot people HAVE to steal it to put on naked bodies?
Get over yourselves.

KM von Seidl wrote:
I guess since we're sharing...

Okay, this one I heard from a model's sister's sluggo's mother's white knight boyfriend's cousin.  There was this family and they were going on a cross country trip, and the grandmom died while travelling with them on the trip.  And rather than having to deal with it on vacation, the father, who was A PHOTOGRAPHER, just tied her up on the luggage rack and kept on with his vacation.  Now, that's a true story.

Wait ... are you getting this story confused with Chevy Chase in Christmas Vacation?  If so, it's an honest mistake.  Even if not true, it's still a scary photographer story. And that's what counts. And the sharing. That's really sweet!

arianna77 wrote:
I had this one sleazy photog, who was clearly a GWC...it was a paid shoot, and now I'm pretty sure he only photographs pretty girls for his personal wank file.  Anyways, he insisted on HANDING his camera to another photog, whom I trust and was part lending his studio to this guy and part there as my unofficial escort, and having that photog take shots of him picking me up over his shoulder[b].  The pictures were all total crap, and the guy gave me the creeps like crazy.  Most of the creepiness was just a "vibe", but the whole over the shoulder thing was really wierd. In retrospect I wish I hadn't done it, but unfortunately it was just about the first thing he wanted to shoot, and I hadn't quite figured out how bad he was yet.  Especially since I've found out that he does that with EVERY model he works with.  I've talked to a few other models who said the same thing about the guy.  Needless to say I don't plan on shooting with him again like, ever.

In reply to someone else:

arianna77 wrote:
You know, I'm sure you were new at what you were doing once too.  The fact that I was VERY new at modelling and had been hooked up with this guy through another photographer that I trusted does not mean that my intelligence is any lower than yours.  Knowing what I know now, I never would have even done the shoot, pay or no pay.  Live and learn.  However, the [b]undeniable fact is that he WAS skeevy.  At least I had the sense not to be in the studio alone with him. But of course, for this I'll get flamed, because escorts are bad, and models should never bring them.

Hi Arianna - Clearly you were troubled by this early shoot you had and you're a wiser person now. it's clear that you would like to have your story on here because it may be useful for other models and I think that's a great idea.  I have a few things I'm wondering about though so I hope you don't mind my asking a few questions.

What was skeevy about this guy beyond his wanting the pics of him holding you above him?

When we talk about this guy being skeevy, what behaviors are we talking about?  Was it just this holding you over his head behavior? Anything  else?  Were there sexual offenses? 

Getting pics like this is weird to be sure. Did you consider terminating the shoot at that point?  Did you ask about this with your escort/photographer friend?

I'm not sure of the point of your story in a way.  This happened and I think you continued the shoot (is that right?). I don't want to be critical of you for this, I'm interested in a different issue. It seems like your story makes the case for the anti-escort people.  Here you are with someone you know who is an unofficial escort (and a photographer no less that you have worked with) and this (holding you over head thing) still happens.

I wonder if this wouldn't have happened if the escort hadn't been there. Namely, it would have seemed so absurd to you that you would immediately put your foot down. But with this person whom you know and trusted and who also knows this weirdo present, you assume that maybe this is 'OK' despite having weird feelings about it.

Thanks for relating your experience.

Rue 99 wrote:

You're in denial. It happens, I've made friends with models who have provided their accounts, and I have every reason to believe them. Not every story is true, but I hope you're not implying most the models are lying.

PS. I'm dismayed that so early in the thread, photogs are already denying this happens. Try talking to your models. You may be surprised.

PPS. The other thing I notice is so many photogs are hammering on the models for not being more careful or doing their homework. There's a first time for modeling, and the average model is only 18-22 years old. Let's be realistic about how worldly you were when you were 18, rather than judging someone after 10-20 years of experience.

I can already tell this thread is not going to make me popular, but this has bothered me for a long time...

You're doing fine, as far as I am concerned. Anyone who does want to hear these stories is welcome to go do something else. Some people are forever, complaining that such and such has been discussed before, just look it up. Some people posting are pretty new and they have not read old threads, and they may not know about the search feature. Hey, if it bores you, and you've heard it before -be helpful instead of whining a lot. Post a link to past threads if they're relevant and up to date and then go do something else.