Bob Randall Photography wrote:
Wow, I gotta work on my presentation skills. If you read my bio page it does say I suck at communication on the web.

HA ha. ditto! (obviously)

alexwh wrote:
Randall in your intro to this thread you wrote:

if one is not proud of one's work then why keep taking pictures?
Alex

I see two things at work here, one I will address the other you already know. No mention was made of pride in work. I have it in abundance, maybe to a fault. The OP had to do with pride in things over which we have no bearing, no standing, no ownership of intellectual property. Like Chiclets. If you are making Gum prints and stumble to that process some French family has held secret for several generations and involves wood chips or dust, you have a right to say that you now know how to make the most beautiful Gum prints the world has ever seen and your are a master gum printer. When you turn on your Epson you simply have the right to say you know how to turn on your Epson. If you know how to tone control your files so they reproduce well on an Epson that gives you the right to say you are an expert at tone control, it doesn't give you the right to call yourself a Master Chicklets artist. If, and this is a big doubtful one, you have the ability to get inside the spray nozzles on an Epson and change their charge rate or some other funky electro cosmic setting and produce a print that your family can hold the secret to for several generations, well, then you might be a master printer. Does this make sense?

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I see two things at work here, one I will address the other you already know. No mention was made of pride in work. I have it in abundance, maybe to a fault. The OP had to do with pride in things over which we have no bearing, no standing, no ownership of intellectual property. ...&examples&...Does this make sense?

There is pride in *selecting* the best available gear in your price range, pride of ownership and all that. Cognitive dissonance plays a role I'm sure, kind of meaning you have to justify the purchase to yourself. If you pay all your hard earned money for crap equipment, not much pride to be had.

...and a "pride of Lions", you really shouldn't have, although I'm now suspecting perhaps it was unintentional...

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I see two things at work here, one I will address the other you already know. No mention was made of pride in work. I have it in abundance, maybe to a fault. The OP had to do with pride in things over which we have no bearing, no standing, no ownership of intellectual property. Like Chiclets. If you are making Gum prints and stumble to that process some French family has held secret for several generations and involves wood chips or dust, you have a right to say that you now know how to make the most beautiful Gum prints the world has ever seen and your are a master gum printer. When you turn on your Epson you simply have the right to say you know how to turn on your Epson. If you know how to tone control your files so they reproduce well on an Epson that gives you the right to say you are an expert at tone control, it doesn't give you the right to call yourself a Master Chicklets artist. If, and this is a big doubtful one, you have the ability to get inside the spray nozzles on an Epson and change their charge rate or some other funky electro cosmic setting and produce a print that your family can hold the secret to for several generations, well, then you might be a master printer. Does this make sense?

I have a spark plug gapping tool and I can correctly gap the plugs on a VW Beetle very well. As fewer and fewer people do this I will soon be able to call myself the Master Gapper.

I often get people calling me up and begging me to process their b+w infra red or their Technical Pan because they know I shoot it and process it at home. No way I am going to use my precious Technidol for any kind of money. Soon I will be a Master Processor. I sell my b+w photographs well from a local gallery because people know I print my own fibre based photographs. I will soon be a Master Printer. I started when I was 19 and I am 64. Time has helped here. Since I started shooting Kodak b+w Infrared and processed it with HC-110 since that time I am also becoming a Master Kodak b+w nude shooter and printer.

I have a bottle of Perfection Micrograin pills with which I shoot b+w photographs after sundown. The process is called Extend Range Night Photography. I will soon be a Master of Extended Range Night Photography because the competition is getting thin.


What you are saying, in a roundabout way (and had I said it[more directly] I would have been told to get myself down from my high horses) Is that you are pissed off at all the young hotshots who call themselves artists, craftsmen (and craftwomen) and that it really makes you lose your patience. I said that once, almost a year ago and regretted it instantly. So I now just watch. All the hotshots will become less so eventually and better for it.

The previous poster has a point about equipment. Think of King Arthur and Sword Excalibur. Arthur could do anything with that sword (except keeping his wife). I feel the same about my 26 year-old Manfrotto with the almost as old Arca Swiss ball head. With my Mamiya on it and a 140mm lens I feel confident that a lot is possible. I trust my two Minoltas flashmeter and I am quite attached to them (even though I did not invent them, make them or even assemble them).

In the 70s, 80s there was a mystique about owning a black "professional" camera body that had worn so that you could see the brass underneath. This is a pride (and) love of ownership here that is crucial in one's relationship with photography.

I believe this more and more when I happen to photograph someone I have photographed before and I note that it is all the same equipment.

I experienced something like this when I photographed Annie Leibovitz some years ago. She felt the same way in her own way. I surrounded here with my Three Dynalites (two gridspots, one Chimera) and I mounted a Mamiya Pro-S with the 140mm. She told me, "Alex, this is weird, this is exactly the equipment I use and it almost feels like I am taking my own picture."
Alexwh

alexwh wrote:
What you are saying, in a roundabout way (and had I said it[more directly] I would have been told to get myself down from my high horses) Is that you are pissed off at all the young hotshots who call themselves artists, craftsmen (and craftwomen) and that it really makes you lose your patience. I said that once, almost a year ago and regretted it instantly. So I now just watch. All the hotshots will become less so eventually and better for it.

I experienced something like this when I photographed Annie Leibovitz some years ago. She felt the same way in her own way. I surrounded here with my Three Dynalites (two gridspots, one Chimera) and I mounted a Mamiya Pro-S with the 140mm. She told me, "Alex, this is weird, this is exactly the equipment I use and it almost feels like I am taking my own picture."
Alexwh

I don't understand how I can write in a more specific and understandable manner. I'm not pissed at any one. I think calling an Epson or an ink jet print a Gicglee or Chicklet (this is easier for me to spell) is a sign of needing validation and insecurity or quite possibly when the Emporer is in town with his new clothes it's a great marketing tool. You (in general) don't earn credit with me (in specific) by making something out to be what it isn't. An ink jet is an ink jet and no naming convention in the world will change that. Pride in doing something anyone can do by pushing a button but calling it by a different name is silly.

Pride in telling everyone, no matter how subtly, that you were selected to photograph Annie Leibovitz, is most understandable.

I don't care if you are 64 or 24, pride in anything you had nothing to do with is silly. I still feel MJR said it best.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
There are several threads going on at the moment and they reflect an underlying current in people I have never understood. Pride in things. Things they own such as film cameras or the latest big digital camera, ways of doing someTHING such as wet darkroom process as opposed to the nutballs that refer to Epson prints as chicklets or geeclays or something the spelling of which doesn't sound like the pronunciation thus making it even more elevated in pride (can you tell this one kinda gets to me), using Olde English language in their communications in order to elevate their sense of worth thus showcasing once again their pride. This mental disorder is certainly not indigenous to photographers only. Makeup artists push there pride onto the goods they use. Football fans are the total nutball package. You ever hear the guys being interviewed while wearing face paint, a dress and pig noses? Their line is "WE are going to kick the other teams asses today! WE. Can you imagine anything more stupid than an overweight out of shape suburban soccer dad screaming about how HE is going to kick ass as if he were on the team. Pride in something you had nothing to do with, WTF is that all about.

hey, why pick on the Redskins? LOL