Photographer
Christopher N.
Posts: 657
Troy, Michigan, US
KM von Seidl wrote:
What's the point of this thread? Knee jerk responses. Misunderstood text. Hurt feelings.
The usual. :-)
Model
Tiffainee
Posts: 27
Lexington, Kentucky, US
okay well, there is a difference between thin and too damn thin, I'm not thin or fat, I'm in the middle and as to wieght it really is the different and
I don't want to make anyone mad by me saying this but:
and keep in mind one girl 5 4 can pull off 98 and look damn good
and other 140 and look damn good it just depends on the person
but
It just isn't sexy to have all bones
showing and be so thin that your legs are smaller than an average
persons arm, its not sexy to not look healthy
plus size models are sexy but there not seaching for thereselfs under
rolls of fat and flab! A 5'2 person who wieght 230 isn't healthy.
I think healthy is sexy!
But thats just what I think. But I am all for woman who feels good
about there selfs and don't bash other woman, we have so many
people how judge and not enough people to back us, so if you are one
of those under/overweight and you feel good and sexy, then don't change
for anyone!!!!
Photographer
Jay Edwards
Posts: 18616
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US
Hope Parr wrote:
then change how things are worded, when you make a blanket statement, its taken that way..
My comments were made in the context of the thread which is (partially) about unhealthy, over-eating, non-exercising people. Perhaps you skimmed over the entire thread and didn't realize this.
Photographer
Alexis_Kennedy
Posts: 1308
Portland, Oregon, US
UdoR wrote:
I am pointing out that obese vegetarians are a very American phenomenon, because they seem to exist only in American and not in Europe (specifically Germany and Denmark). HAHAHAHA, sorry man, but this is just straight up not true. Have you walked up to every overweight person in Europe and asked if they were a vegetarian? Better yet, have you walked up to ANY overweight person in Europe and asked if they were vegetarian?
I suppose in Europe the sky is pink and not blue as well.
Photographer
GW Burns
Posts: 564
Sarasota, Florida, US
Slendor versus Curvy....Glamour vs Fashion....Blondes vs Brunettes....White vs Black....Does it really matter? Geesh, I so hate labels...it reaks of I am better then you or at the least a selective breeding process. The truth of the matter is everyone is beautiful in someones eyes and every person has their preferences. If that preference is contrary to yours, it doesnt make them wrong or you right. I have a good friend of mine who is white who simply loves to shoot black models, and another black photographer friend who loves to shoot white models. I used to tease them that the black photographers first experience with nudity was his seeing a Playboy when he was young and hence the facination with white models. I then told my other friend who likes to shoot black models that his first experience seeing a nude woman was National Geographic LMAO. I tend to think each of us is unique and when you label people it tends to stereotype them as suredly as a farmer grading eggs lol! Personally I like my eggs overhard with a touch of pepper!
GW
Model
Shellane
Posts: 204
Orlando, Florida, US
As a curvy, athletic type I find it challenging to find work. I am not "plus size" material and fashionwise I am not slender enough.
So I continue to pound the pavement....
Model
Ximena Barreto
Posts: 670
Monterey, California, US
UdoR wrote:
This comes up ALL the time...
Slender girls being bashed by "curvy" girls... as if the slender and athletic types are something unreal, and made out to be "stick figures".
This maybe too much of a personal view, but I consider a girl "curvy" when she is slender, has perky round b-cup breasts (curve #1), athletic latissimus that goes into a narrow waist (curve #2) and outwards to a round hip (curve #3) with a round and firm buttock (curve #4), then athletic thighs with toned legs tapering down to narrow ankles.
But... that's MY definition of curvy.
So i dont know if i'm curvy, because i'm D, and my waist is 23 and my hips 35 :S!! I thought i'm the slender type but now i'm confused with the cup breast
Model
ang m
Posts: 511
Chicago, Illinois, US
UdoR wrote:
This maybe too much of a personal view, but I consider a girl "curvy" when she is slender, has perky round b-cup breasts (curve #1), athletic latissimus that goes into a narrow waist (curve #2) and outwards to a round hip (curve #3) with a round and firm buttock (curve #4), then athletic thighs with toned legs tapering down to narrow ankles.
But... that's MY definition of curvy. That's the best definition of curvy I have ever read. I agree 
Thanks Udor
Model
Meagan M Power
Posts: 40
Denver, Colorado, US
Tiffainee wrote:
okay well, there is a difference between thin and too damn thin, I'm not thin or fat, I'm in the middle and as to wieght it really is the different and
I don't want to make anyone mad by me saying this but:
and keep in mind one girl 5 4 can pull off 98 and look damn good
and other 140 and look damn good it just depends on the person
but
It just isn't sexy to have all bones
showing and be so thin that your legs are smaller than an average
persons arm, its not sexy to not look healthy
plus size models are sexy but there not seaching for thereselfs under
rolls of fat and flab! A 5'2 person who wieght 230 isn't healthy.
I think healthy is sexy!
But thats just what I think. But I am all for woman who feels good
about there selfs and don't bash other woman, we have so many
people how judge and not enough people to back us, so if you are one
of those under/overweight and you feel good and sexy, then don't change
for anyone!!!! 5'4" and 98. . .I consider myself toned, not curvy, not skinny. This talk about curves seems to have turned into a debate on lifestyle choices between different weight genres. I like the way I look. I think it is great there are heavier models out there these days since most people relate better to them (speaking statisticly). HOnestly, I think jealousy has a lot to do with the body bashing FROM BOTH PERSPECTIVES!!! I work my butt off for this body. I was an elite gymnast and now I am in the gym five days a week to maintain shape. I know I look my best when I am in shape and weigh less (yes, I have been heavy set, so I know both sides). I admit I sometimes feel jealous of the heavier models because we are having the same success but I can almost guarantee they are not in the gym like I am. They have a natural beauty at a heavy weight. The bigger models ( I was not a model when I was bigger) are jealous of the smaller models shape and possibly jealous of the discipline or dedication (the ideal body). When I gain weight, I lose the shape of my face and my cheekbones disappear and i get a double chin. If you have a few extra pounds and the naturally beautiful face no matter ass size.... Lucky you! I have time to make it to the gym almost every day.... Lucky me! Mutual respect for one body type and the other is what we should all strive for.
As for Curvy, that is just structure. I always said I was curvy because of the way my hips are shaped. I don't think boobs should count in curvy deliberation. You can always push up, stuff, tape, or alter in some way the way they come across in photos. Hips are there, no changin your bone structure. . ..
Any how..... just my 2 cents
A quote to summarize my aforementioned point.
Those who can, do. Those who can't criticize.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Haleh B wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060912/en_nm/life_spain_models_dc
If the fashion industry is starting to wake up maybe it is time we all did too. "Waking up"... hmmmm
You know what I REALLY believe is that this whole action by Madrid designers is a MARKETING PLOY to let the world know that there IS a high fashion market in Madrid and they want to be recognized.
The BMI is a very bogus and suspect measurement, because it completely ignores the body composition of lean muscle fibers versus fatty tissue!
A model at 5'10" and 125lbs (122 lbs is the Madrid cutoff!) can look much slimmer than a model at 5'10" and 110lbs, if the first model has a lot of lean muscle because she is toned, where the latter is simply flabby with no muscles.
If you consider that lean muscle tissue weighs 5 times more than fatty tissue in the same volume... than you may understand why the BMI is fundametally flawed.
Hence, I believe that Madrid is simply saying: Hey... we are here too... and they completely succeeded!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
KM von Seidl wrote:
What's the point of this thread? Errr... a "Rant"? 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Andrew Kaiser wrote:
HAHAHAHA, sorry man, but this is just straight up not true. Have you walked up to every overweight person in Europe and asked if they were a vegetarian? Better yet, have you walked up to ANY overweight person in Europe and asked if they were vegetarian?
I suppose in Europe the sky is pink and not blue as well. I quantified my statement later about Germany and Denmark... and since I was born and raised there and was an active member of vegetarian communities for over ten years (before I relocated to NYC) I have a pretty good understanding on what's going on... and having done so, and met a few thousand vegetarians over the years and not one was obese... I think my observation has more validity than your cookie cutter response of "have you walked up to any..."
Photographer
none of the above
Posts: 3528
Marina del Rey, California, US
GW Burns wrote:
Slendor versus Curvy....Glamour vs Fashion....Blondes vs Brunettes....White vs Black....Does it really matter? yes, it does matter. this is the modeling business and placement is highly selective. there are very distinct reasons and purpose for the choices made.
in the practice of picture taking it doesn't matter. then the only requirement is a willing participant as the sense of purpose has no bearing on the output other than creating a picture.
--face reality
Photographer
Antonio Photography
Posts: 121
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico
Well. I know my opinion won't make a difference in here, but, hey people keep it cool. I don't know if slim figures are more attractive than curvy girls (just as it has been defined here) or viceversa.
I have worked with size 0 models, most of them are teens and just 1 was around 30 year old, and of course, curvy girls with beyond D bra cup (see my port). Fitness models are always eye catching, and slender models have a nice touch. I believe that none of them are better than the other. Both can be as beautiful and sexy as it can be. So, I don't have a special preference for models. As long she is easy going, and has what I'm looking, I work with her.
From me any kind of model, short, tall, slim, curvy whatever a model can be, will have all of my respect and would like to shoot with. The sun rises for everyone and everybody deserves a chance to do what they love: modeling.
Model
Nala Mills
Posts: 124
Chicago, Illinois, US
Electra T wrote:
here we go.
I'll say something.
On this site, thin models get bashed more than fat, "curvy" models....
but who cares, because honestly..
The thin models should laugh there skinny buns because
They're in demand
When you're in demand you going to get it.
It's no different than a tall model being bashed by a shorty who wants to do high fashion.
AND UDOR is quite right...5'4 and 143 is borderline overweight and i don't care if it's average in this country..where a girl who's 5'4 complains she can't find her size 16...
In my parent's countries a girl 5'4 would be somewhere between 100-130lbs.
Americans are FAT and it has everything to do with KFC,MCd and...
LACK OF EXCERSISE.
And skinny girls can be curvy, and thicker girls can be curvy..i don't consider fat girls curvy. It's fat. Geezus. I'm 5'4 and when I weighed 143, I was in a size 12 but I was very small up top. I wasn't fat or obese. I had a small waist and big hips. I still do. I'm range from a size 9-12 but I weigh 133. Am I still fat? Look at my pics and tell me? I know that it varies from person to person and that I have more of an athletic build. Thats why we can't make generalizations like these.
Photographer
GW Burns
Posts: 564
Sarasota, Florida, US
FaceReality wrote:
yes, it does matter. this is the modeling business and placement is highly selective. there are very distinct reasons and purpose for the choices made.
in the practice of picture taking it doesn't matter. then the only requirement is a willing participant as the sense of purpose has no bearing on the output other than creating a picture.
--face reality Oh I am sorry I misread the opening Statement by Udor
"Slender girls being bashed by "curvy" girls... as if the slender and athletic types are something unreal, and made out to be "stick figures".
Thank you for clarifying that he was talking about the job market and how those types of figures qualify for various jobs....I thought he was just giving his two cents as to what type of body style a model had and how they would be classified. I will have to go back to my dictionary and correct the definition of bashing, thanks!
Photographer
Alexis_Kennedy
Posts: 1308
Portland, Oregon, US
UdoR wrote:
I quantified my statement later about Germany and Denmark... and since I was born and raised there and was an active member of vegetarian communities for over ten years (before I relocated to NYC) I have a pretty good understanding on what's going on... and having done so, and met a few thousand vegetarians over the years and not one was obese... I think my observation has more validity than your cookie cutter response of "have you walked up to any..." Okay, you had a lot of vegetarian friends in Denmark and Germany, that's nice. But that has nothing to do with your horribly over-generalized statement that "obese vegetarians are a very American phenomenon, because they seem to exist only in America".
Maybe in your little world that is true, but no matter how many people you know there is no way it could reflect on the whole of Europe, The United States, or any other country for that matter.
Photographer
J & X Photography
Posts: 3767
Arlington, Virginia, US
UdoR wrote:
This comes up ALL the time...
Slender girls being bashed by "curvy" girls... as if the slender and athletic types are something unreal, and made out to be "stick figures".
This maybe too much of a personal view, but I consider a girl "curvy" when she is slender, has perky round b-cup breasts (curve #1), athletic latissimus that goes into a narrow waist (curve #2) and outwards to a round hip (curve #3) with a round and firm buttock (curve #4), then athletic thighs with toned legs tapering down to narrow ankles.
But... that's MY definition of curvy.
Other peoples definition maybe flabby arms, rolls under the arms, belly rolls, muffin tops and big thighs with a big shapeless buttock.
I am sure some people will flame me for this, or think that I am attacking big girls..., but no, I don't mean that... I attack the terminology, because, frankly, it just gets on my friggin nerves when models I am working with or girls I am friends with, or girls I am dating who are slender and curvy are simply being insulted by the "curvy girls brigade"...
If you are one of those, why don't you make the simple distinction of calling yourself "curvier" girls, because you have some more rolls.
There is nothing wrong with it, according to a recent statistic I have seen on the news in reference to the Madrid Idiocy, the average American girl is 5'4" and 143 lbs... wondering if KFC, McD and the King have anything to do with it...
Just stop denying that slender girls can have fantastic curves in the right places...
End of rant In S. America all the women are curvy AND thin...Eat fish (no, not Long John's Silver's) but CEVICHE, walk a lot (don't sit in your car to get fast food thru the drive through, try WALKING to the market a couple of kilometers away and CARRYING the food you bought back to your house).
DANCE when you go out and party...everybody in S. America dances for all occasions....easter parties, graduations, anniversaries, etc.
I'm not sure what's up with Mexican women....too many tortillas and beans and by the time they're 30 yrs old, well, I'm not going to go further, you know what happens...
Photographer
Antonio Photography
Posts: 121
Mexico City, Distrito Federal, Mexico
J n X Photography wrote:
In S. America all the women are curvy AND thin...Eat fish (no, not Long John's Silver's) but CEVICHE, walk a lot (don't sit in your car to get fast food thru the drive through, try WALKING to the market a couple of kilometers away and CARRYING the food you bought back to your house).
DANCE when you go out and party...everybody in S. America dances for all occasions....easter parties, graduations, anniversaries, etc.
I'm not sure what's up with Mexican women....too many tortillas and beans and by the time they're 30 yrs old, well, I'm not going to go further, you know what happens... I can tell you about Mexican women because it's my country. It all depends on wich kind of women you are talking about, because we share most of S.American women characteristics, but we also share bad habits from N. America like fast food.
Tortillas and beans are very important to us as rice is for asiatics, but that doesn't mean that people is fat. I don't know of any woman by having a diet of tortillas and beans get overweight. Aztecs, Mayas, Tarahumaras, Chichimecas and all our ancestors had a diet of tortilla and beans and weren't overweight. Mexican get fat as soon as McDonald´s, Coke, Pepsi, Burger King, Pizza Hut, KFC and fast food companies get into the country. Of course, it ain't their fault, but the abuse of eating this kind of food regularly.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Andrew Kaiser wrote:
Okay, you had a lot of vegetarian friends in Denmark and Germany, that's nice. But that has nothing to do with your horribly over-generalized statement that "obese vegetarians are a very American phenomenon, because they seem to exist only in America". Of course I have been generalizing!
However, even the public perception of vegetarians is totally different, which may give you another hint... in Germany (while I grew up there) the general perception was vegetarian = slender and there was just no cultural idea that vegetarians include obese people (again, I am NOT talking about obese people who were just put on a strict vegetarian diet by their physician!) or even heavy set people (before obesity).
Then, coming to America... I have met my very first long term obese/vegetarian EVER in my life... and got to know in a short period of time more long term vegetarians with serious weight problems. I have NEVER met such vegetarians in Germany... EVER!
In addition to that, here in America it's part of the cultural thinking and acceptance that there are not only fat vegetarians but also obese ones... and if they are here in the States en mass, they MUST be everywhere too. I don't know about you, but a societies general perception on a certain group is often a mirror of the groups specific "features".
Remember the times when a tattooed person was either a biker, ex inmate, drug dealer, prostitute or sailor? Why was that perception this way? Well... because those were pretty much the only people (few exceptions) who were tattooed. Now it changed drastically and that perception changed as well.
It's the same with the difference in perception of vegetarians in both countries.
So, those observations are subjective, but based on my almost empirical observation, as spending almost equal times as a vegetarian in both countries, exceeding over a decade in each, while being involved in the vegetarian communities of both countries (wouldn't that be considered an informal comparative study/observation lasting over 20 years?  )... no matter how it offends you... I believe that I am pretty on target with my assessment!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
BCNDigitalFx wrote:
Mexican get fat as soon as McDonald´s, Coke, Pepsi, Burger King, Pizza Hut, KFC and fast food companies get into the country. Of course, it ain't their fault, but the abuse of eating this kind of food regularly. I got scolded for the blasphemy earlier in my rant for pointing out eating habits and fast food as a reason for "curves".
Carefull there... if you talk against those cultural icons... you can be labeled: "Un-American"...
They'll eat you alive... 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
UdoR wrote:
Then, coming to America... I have met my very first long term obese/vegetarian EVER in my life... and got to know in a short period of time more long term vegetarians with serious weight problems. I have NEVER met such vegetarians in Germany... EVER! Dude, they must be eating a shit load of carrots and/or sitting on their asses all the time. Or, they just started and having started shedding pounds yet. Or, finally, they are...well...you can be a vegetarian while still stuffing your face with ice cream and cookies right?
people aren't fat because they are eating meat. They are fat because they eat too much garbage for their bodies to crap out.
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54196
Buena Park, California, US
UdoR wrote:
I got scolded for the blasphemy earlier in my rant for pointing out eating habits and fast food as a reason for "curves".
Carefull there... if you talk against those cultural icons... you can be labeled: "Un-American"...
They'll eat you alive... Well, you can't blame everyone's fat on fast food. Can they be a problem? sure. DO they make it easier for people to have a problem? sure. Are they to blame? No. I especially have a problem with blaming them for fat Mexicans. Maybe fat Mexicans in the United States, but I've been to Mexico and...though I'm sure those restaurants exist, they aren't as plentiful as they are here in the states. So they are getting fat on their food. Just as others have done for countless centuries.
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
KM von Seidl wrote:
What's the point of this thread? Christopher N. wrote:
Knee jerk responses. Misunderstood text. Hurt feelings.
The usual. :-) seriously
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
KM von Seidl wrote:
What's the point of this thread? Christopher N. wrote:
Knee jerk responses. Misunderstood text. Hurt feelings.
The usual. :-) KM von Seidl wrote:
seriously Yep... in a nutshell! 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
DigitalCMH wrote:
Dude, they must be eating a shit load of carrots and/or sitting on their asses all the time. Or, they just started and having started shedding pounds yet. Or, finally, they are...well...you can be a vegetarian while still stuffing your face with ice cream and cookies right?
people aren't fat because they are eating meat. They are fat because they eat too much garbage for their bodies to crap out. Yeah, well, that particular person was a vegetarian for 11 years at that time... and lived on cakes and had NO IDEA about high fiber diets, exercise etc.
I constantly make the distinction to overweight and obese vegetarians who JUST were put on a diet as opposed to those who are vegetarians for years.
With nutritional information and knowledge comes often a more health conscious lifestyle which all together leads to a healthier, leaner body.
So, yeah, meat alone doesn't make you fat, but it contributes, and it also can have a series of other longterm damaging effects to your body, eg. osteoporosis (calcium borrowed from bones to break down sulphuric acid of animal proteins), colon cancer (total lack of fibers) etc.
Also, nutrition is only one part of the equation, but an important part of the universal equation "energy in vs. energy out".
An individual metabolism can be speed up if certain mechanisms of the body are being understood.
Model
Jessalyn
Posts: 21433
Denver, Colorado, US
I think I'm a curvy slender girl! I had one photographer keep saying "hm...lets reposition you, you're looking to hippy" as in I got some curvy hips! And I don't have a huge butt but I know it would definitely be pretty big if I weighed more It's much larger than other skinny girls I know
Model
Magnoliamodel
Posts: 165
Some women are naturally thin, some are naturally medium, some naturally large and others are naturally in between.
They all have curves, i only moan about 'influence' in regards to the women that idolise the 'ironing board' figure. In which un-naturally achieve the figure and promote this as the 'perfect' woman. Its negatively influencing women / young girls of today to have that figure or want that figure, leading to ill health.
Instead i would prefer if women promoted acceptance of the figure they have.
but hey this is the modelling industry isn't it.....
thats my opinion.
end of.
Photographer
Z Views
Posts: 116
Dallas, Texas, US
So many changes.....
There was a time during the 1800....when rubenesque was popular....rubenesque to the point where they would be called fat today. When I was a young man....It was Marilyn Monroe and Jane Mansfield. In the 60's and early 70s....Twiggy.
A woman can be 98# and be curvey or thin..... but she could be 160# and curvy or thin. Depends on bone structure....height....muscle tone...and so many other things.
I believe a woman or model should not fit into a 'social' mold. You should be yourself and be happy in who you are. When you are..... when you have confidence and faith in yourself.... you are beautiful and sensual at any weight or any amount of curves.
Best to all,
Z
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Z Views wrote:
So many changes.....
There was a time during the 1800....when rubenesque was popular....rubenesque to the point where they would be called fat today. When I was a young man....It was Marilyn Monroe and Jane Mansfield. In the 60's and early 70s....Twiggy. I used to have a book which was one of the most interesting and telling comparisons of different cultures over the times.
The books title was "Sparta/Sybaris" and written by an Austrian architect and cultural critic Bernard Rudofsky http://tinyurl.com/ed9f4, who was later affiliated with the MoMA.
It showed how different people looked at body shapes etc. over the ages or how home furnitures, such as chairs and knee high beds contribute to losing flexibility in someones age, when compared to floor sitting cultures where even old people have no rheumatism and get up everyday from the floor and back down... natural exercises.
Remember where the term "blue blood" is coming from?
It was a sign of nobility if you didn't have to work on the fields like the common peasant, so, it was "in" to completely stay out of the sunlight so that the blue veins could shine through the pale skin...
Hey... and then those noble people sufferent vitamin D deficiency.
Rubenesque women became the ideal for a certain period of time and a lot of people tried to show that they were living wealthy and could afford to eat a lot of food...
Visual tastes are aquired as well as culinary tastes.
Health is a matter of someones individual body composition, but often complacency finds forms of excuses, such as, hey, I am over 40, what do you expect... or
I had five kids 20 years ago, never could lose the weight.
Yet, there are tremendeous examples of people who overcame their own excuses and achieved major success for their health... guess it depends a lot on someones individual level of motivation and willingness to make a decision and to take action!
|
It's much larger than other skinny girls I know
)... no matter how it offends you... I believe that I am pretty on target with my assessment!
