Jayne Jones wrote:
Shyly has tried to get him to stop assuming people's lifestyles based on their appearance many times.

But I also was able to provide Shyly with information and facts that she wasn't aware of and she thanked me for specific info about such topics a few months back!

UdoR wrote:
I am serious, simply because I know what I am talking about!

Being "serious" does not give you the right to generalize and stereotype.  That's all I'm saying.

Jayne Jones wrote:

Sarah he was just trying to be funny.  I agree with him that it is very wrong for people to pick on slender folk.  Just as it is to pick on not so slender folk.  But Udo has an uncanny knack for assuming things when it comes to not so slender folk. . .which boils down to the pot calling the kettle black IMO.  Two wrongs don't make a right.

Shyly has tried to get him to stop assuming people's lifestyles based on their appearance many times.  I honestly don't know why I even bothered to make the same plea. . .clearly he has never listened to her and she is far more reputable and known than I.

I never see curvy girls pick on thin girls. Or vice versa. I see photographers picking on models alot. LOL Only photographers have made me feel crappy about my body. Maybe that's why this post irks me a little. You have a great body. BTW.

-Sarah

Jayne Jones wrote:

I agree with everything you've said. . .I just thought that the point of his post was that people were picking on the slender models and calling them curvaceously challenged.  So for him to say what he said about fat people was just as insulting.  That's the point I was trying to make.

The CDC says that America is vastly overweight due to "inactivity and sedentary lifestyles" not diet.

I guess by "the whole point" I meant "my point that should end your arguement, but probably won't."  Sorry.. Sometimes I type without thinking.

I agree with UdoR's reason for posting this.  But bringing up the whole "soul food" thing is valid to the arguement because people who base their diets on those types of food will be unhealthy, if not overweight.  But to assume that anyone who is overweight eats fried chicken for breakfast is ridiculous.

And.. Yeah, we're all lazy.  :0/.

ChrisCorbettPhotography wrote:
Sorry, a lame attempt at an off topic joke.

I don't get it, should I?

jayedwards wrote:

Uh-oh...so we have to be politically correct here?

Not when your on MM in your underwear.

Jayne Jones wrote:

Being "serious" does not give you the right to generalize and stereotype.  That's all I'm saying.

My "generalization" is:

"Energy In vs. Energy Out"

If you consume more energy (food/calories) than your body burns (matter of energy expenditure and metabolism) you gain weight!

If it is equal, you stay the same and if you take in less than you (individually!) burn, than you lose weight.

THAT is my "stereotyping" and has directly something to do with physiology in a "normal" body.

Nothing else!

UdoR wrote:

Hey Sarah;

As someone who lives among people who enjoy "soul food", as someone who was married to one Jamaican and one AA woman with close contact to the rest of the families and not caring about the ethnicity of someone I love... I will not get into any "PC" bullcrap with you, since you don't know the platform I am speaking from...

K!

okey dokey.. I have never had soul food.

UdoR wrote:
Hey Sarah;

As someone who lives among people who enjoy "soul food", as someone who was married to one Jamaican and one AA woman with close contact to the rest of the families and not caring about the ethnicity of someone I love... I will not get into any "PC" bullcrap with you, since you don't know the platform I am speaking from...

K!

As long as we're ranting, can't you just say "I am not racist," and leave it at that?  Anyone who disagrees with you will be a total idiot in your mind, and that's the most important place.
It really bothers me when someone uses the excuse of having Jamaican/Arab/Mexican/Iranian/Polish/Jupiterian friends/loved ones to say they're not racist.  Honestly, to me, it looks like  you're only associated with those people so you can say you're PC.

And I'm not really talking about you, UdoR.  Just in general.

Anyway, as to not thread-jack, I would like to restate that I agree with UdoR's reason for posting this and have always been confused by the term "curvy" used to mean "plus sized" because anyone can be curvy.  Small or large, they're still curves.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
As long as we're ranting, can't you just say "I am not racist," and leave it at that?  Anyone who disagrees with you will be a total idiot in your mind, and that's the most important place.
It really bothers me when someone uses the excuse of having Jamaican/Arab/Mexican/Iranian/Polish/Jupiterian friends/loved ones to say they're not racist.  Honestly, to me, it looks like  you're only associated with those people so you can say you're PC.

And I'm not really talking about you, UdoR.  Just in general.

There is a huge difference between someone giving lip service stating the politically correct thing of not being a racist and someone who is actually not caring about someones ethnicity.

I know way too many people who call themself "not racist... but..." and would never bring a person of a different ethnicity home to mom and pop, or even starting a life together and living in part of the culture, or saying that they are not racist, and have "friends" but believe that in matters of the heart, people should stay within their OWN people (but get excited by the possibility of tasting the forbidden fruit (fucking them)).

This is why I make a strong distinction here!

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
As long as we're ranting, can't you just say "I am not racist," and leave it at that?  Anyone who disagrees with you will be a total idiot in your mind, and that's the most important place.
It really bothers me when someone uses the excuse of having Jamaican/Arab/Mexican/Iranian/Polish/Jupiterian friends/loved ones to say they're not racist.  Honestly, to me, it looks like  you're only associated with those people so you can say you're PC.

And I'm not really talking about you, UdoR.  Just in general.

Wow...this thread is getting pretty funny.

And I can whip up a pretty tasty menu of 'soul food' (read as comfort food folks don't kid yourselves). Actually I'm probably a better cook than I am a photographer.

Again I restate....'eh'.....

Sarah Deathriage wrote:

I don't get it, should I?

Well, you made the comment about this topic being done again. The escort remark had to do with another topic that has been beaten to death many times over. That's all.

Shyly wrote:
I don't get it.  What's with all the hostility?  Seriously.  I've been on the receiving end of enormous amounts of crap from thin girls, just like some thin girls have been on the receiving end of enormous amounts of crap from fat girls.  Why?  Who the fuck cares?

I am so over it.  Seriously.

GET OVER IT!

Thank you. Most volumptuous women are more curvy. You'll see more ethnic women, hispanic, black, eastern Indian, Greek and Italain that are curvy. Something like Beyonce or what you find in King magazine, that body type.

Yes slim women do have curves, but curves depends alot of racial background too. One of my regular models who is also a MM member fits that curvy volumptous catergory.

W.G. Rowland wrote:
When being fit means I won't die.. I'll look into it..
Until then.. Threads like this are only going to expand prejudices they want to end.

Thank you for seeing what Udo is saying. . . and what I'm trying to say.

ChrisCorbettPhotography wrote:

Well, you made the comment about this topic being done again. The escort remark had to do with another topic that has been beaten to death many times over. That's all.

Well we could talk about things that are cliche sorry I didn't get it.

Wynd Mulysa wrote:
I guess by "the whole point" I meant "my point that should end your arguement, but probably won't."  Sorry.. Sometimes I type without thinking.

Oh.  My bad.  I'm not the brightest crayon in the box.

Jayne Jones wrote:
While I'm at it, my personal diet is not that of constant fast food, nor soul food.  I only eat once a day, and THAT is why I keep weight.  The body is very smart. . .too smart really.  Because I eat once a day as opposed to three meals minimum or even five small meals ideally. . .my body pretty much stores everything I eat and I motabolize everything I eat very very slowly.  My body is preserving what I eat because it knows it will be a long time before the next meal.

Good!

At least you are aware that your eating habits (one meal a day vs. 6 small meals during the day) is keeping your bodyweight on.

I don't "bash" people... I don't think that I did it in any of my post here... but I am against ignorance on how health and nutrition is correlated.

Big people who are bashing small ones are my pet peeve and although not politically correct, I call it how I see it!

This is a rant, I am annoyed and continue to defend the slender girls who are supposedly not having any curves if there is not excess fat on the hips and belly!

UdoR wrote:

Shyly;

I hope you know that I am fighting against the hostility against slender girls and not against "big" girls... but I am sure YOU know what I am talking about, since we have been discussing this for a long time already!

P.S.: Why are you not in NYC??? I thought you've planned your trip up here months ago and that we can finally shoot together.

I don't see the hostility towards skinny women. What's going on is that typical U.S. slim vs over weight issues in this society.

I find women of all size attractive. But what I find physically appeallling isn't the slim women nor the oversize women. Too his or her own. My style of attractive women is what you'd find on Ransom J's MM page or King Magazine. Aka Thick. But I'm not cancelling out the other body types. Thick to me is backside with some thighs or fries to go with that shake.

Jayne Jones wrote:

I'm sorry Udo. . .I forgot you were a licensed dietitian.  I may not be the "perfect picture" of health. . .but from the nutrition class I took. . .depending upon how you metabolize food. . .vegetarians can also be obese.  Not even going to talk about how much "natural sugar" there is in fruit.  And if you eat enough veggies and don't expend the calories from those veggies out. . .that would put you into the same "calories in vs calories out" scenario that you speak of.  I'm merely stating that one shouldn't gaze upon someone and say "hmmm. . .she's portly. . .wonder how many trips to fast food restaurants she makes".  If you aren't adult enough to acknowledge that is stereotypical. . .for the same reason as it is wrong to look at a muscle bound man and say "boy. . .he sure is built. . .wonder what steroids he's taking". . .then that's perfectly fine and your prejudiced opinion.

I'm not even going to touch the "soul food" comment.

Have to agree with you and Udors misunderstandiong about the myths here. Soulfood or not, black men and women are physically build different as is Asian and Caucasion.

UdoR wrote:
My "generalization" is:

"Energy In vs. Energy Out"

If you consume more energy (food/calories) than your body burns (matter of energy expenditure and metabolism) you gain weight!

Agreed. . .as long as it is understood that ALL foods have calories.  Not just fast or soulful ones.  ;-)

UdoR wrote:
THAT is my "stereotyping" and has directly something to do with physiology in a "normal" body.

Nothing else!

I was merely referring to this part of your post. . .nothing more.  Believe I even quoted you when I said it the first time.  But alas. . .point taken. . .point made. . .

UdoR wrote:
There is nothing wrong with it, according to a recent statistic I have seen on the news in reference to the Madrid Idiocy, the average American girl is 5'4" and 143 lbs... wondering if KFC, McD and the King have anything to do with it...

Jayne Jones wrote:
The CDC says that America is vastly overweight due to "inactivity and sedentary lifestyles" not diet.  NOT that diet doesn't play a role in the whole scheme of things, because it does. . .but there are just as many skinny people in lines at these fast food giants as there are fat people. . .and THAT fact shouldn't be overlooked.  Us big folk don't own any more stock in fast food than slim folk.

Yeah, but what do they know???

Sarah Deathriage wrote:

Well we could talk about things that are cliche sorry I didn't get it.

Certainly not a problem. Most people don't get my humor in person, let alone via electrons.

Sarah Deathriage wrote:
I never see curvy girls pick on thin girls. Or vice versa.

There at least a dozen threads full of just that.

Jayne Jones wrote:
The CDC says that America is vastly overweight due to "inactivity and sedentary lifestyles" not diet.  NOT that diet doesn't play a role in the whole scheme of things, because it does. . .but there are just as many skinny people in lines at these fast food giants as there are fat people. . .and THAT fact shouldn't be overlooked.  Us big folk don't own any more stock in fast food than slim folk.

theda wrote:
Yeah, but what do they know???

That's true.  That's probably why they usually site the sources they got their information from in their report. . .they know nothing.  :-)

Shyly wrote:
I don't get it.  What's with all the hostility?  Seriously.  I've been on the receiving end of enormous amounts of crap from thin girls, just like some thin girls have been on the receiving end of enormous amounts of crap from fat girls.  Why?  Who the fuck cares?

I am so over it.  Seriously.

GET OVER IT!

PREACH! PREACH!  Couldnt have said it better myself

Jayne Jones wrote:
. . .but from the nutrition class I took. . .depending upon how you metabolize food. . .vegetarians can also be obese.

Interesting enough...

Obse vegetarians is soo AMERICAN... it's unbelievable.

People here are so clueless about food and the food they are able to get in the supermarkets are so engineered, it's a huge (pun intended!) problem.

I have never seen a long time vegetarian who is obese until I came to America! I swear by God!

In Germany and other parts of Europe... a fat vegetarian (unless someone who JUST started it as advised by his/her physician) is unheard of.

Vegetarianism and obesity just doesn't go hand in hand in Europe (e.g. Germany and Denmark, which has an extremely high percentage of ovo lacto vegetarians).

We end up again with the issue of ignorance, and if this is part of your nutrition class... then it shows how deeply rooted this ignorance and misinformation is in this society and educational system... no surprise here!

UdoR wrote:

Dear Jayne;

Could you please point me to the reference where I EVER made a reference to being a licensed "dietician"!

Would appreciate it!

Regardless, I am concerned with nutritional health for nearly a quarter of a century with intense study of the subject, also being a high performance athlete for 30 years and personal trainer and coach in full contact martial arts (as well as having been a vegetarian for 24 years). With that background, I do have an extensive knowledge and after having had serious discussions with several physicians who agreed with me after I provided them with facts I had access to I am secure enough in my live long knowledge to discuss that matter with your personal physician.

If you want, I'll email you my phone number and have a talk with your doc... free of charge!

Then he/she will tell you what the deal is!

I am serious, simply because I know what I am talking about!

Udor not always my friend. Here's why you don't know what you are always talking about. Even the so called 'experts' have been wrong many times. What most of us base our knowledge on, we base it off of others knowledge that has been passed on. That's my reason for saying 'not always'.

With the stuff that they put in your foods these days along with all of these so called statistics and what is bad for you and they turn around and say that it's good for you, makes me not trust half or even more of what I hear from scientist aka the 'experts'. Including the man made supplements.

Sudanese have one of the highest calestoral diets, but have one of the lowest calestorals. Why? They need those calories for their nomadic travels, but those nomadic travels is why they have one of the lowest calestoral.

I've always heard that thing about it's not meant for man to eat meat. I stop believing that years ago. I believe that man is meant to have meat in his diet, but it's not meant to be the dominant part of his diet. The teeth gives this away. All of the human teeth are smooth accept what they refer to as the canine teeth.

UdoR wrote:
Interesting enough...

Obse vegetarians is soo AMERICAN... it's unbelievable.

People here are so clueless about food and the food they are able to get in the supermarkets are so engineered, it's a huge (pun intended!) problem.

I have never seen a long time vegetarian who is obese until I came to America! I swear by God!

In Germany and other parts of Europe... a fat vegetarian (unless someone who JUST started it as advised by his/her physician) is unheard of.

Vegetarianism and obesity just doesn't go hand in hand in Europe (e.g. Germany and Denmark, which has an extremely high percentage of ovo lacto vegetarians).

We end up again with the issue of ignorance, and if this is part of your nutrition class... then it shows how deeply rooted this ignorance and misinformation is in this society and educational system... no surprise here!

DAY-YUM Udor....

Uh....yeah.

I like ya....so I guess I'm going to shut up. This thread is getting ugly.

(Been to Germany though.....loved the beer)

Legacys 7 wrote:
Udor not always my friend. Here's why you don't know what you are always talking about. Even the so called 'experts' have been wrong many times. What most of us base our knowledge on, we base it off of others knowledge that has been passed on. That's my reason for saying 'not always'.

Yeah, you are correct... what does practical experience in physical performance of athletes in over a quarter of a century mean?

Seeing the direct result in physiology of humans for a long time, based on accumulated and applied knowledge is just another "hearsay".

Geez... *shakes head*

BTW, did you ever notice how the body composition of those "experts" are? I did... and when an overweight physician or scientist tells me what's healthy food... he/she is just not very believable.

Pay attention next time you see an expert talking about health and nutrition and see if he/she is seemingly following his/her own advise and studies!

Wynd Mulysa wrote:

I guess by "the whole point" I meant "my point that should end your arguement, but probably won't."  Sorry.. Sometimes I type without thinking.

I agree with UdoR's reason for posting this.  But bringing up the whole "soul food" thing is valid to the arguement because people who base their diets on those types of food will be unhealthy, if not overweight.  But to assume that anyone who is overweight eats fried chicken for breakfast is ridiculous.

And.. Yeah, we're all lazy.  :0/.

But that wasn't the point of why she didn't like the soulfood statement. What she was addressing is the sterteotype that if you are black and oversized, then it's because of soulfood. You have a large variety of blacks in this country from various countries that are overweight. And not all of them are eating cornbread, friedchicken and blackeyed peas.

If that were the case, then all of the overweight white men and women are eating chitterlings to, which I can't stand. Soulfood isn't always the case for being overweight for those who are raised on this type of diet. Many times is genetics. You can and do have slim man or woman who can eat as mich as someone twice is big but can't keep on weight for nothing. You'd think that some people have shrew in their blood.

UdoR wrote:

My "generalization" is:

"Energy In vs. Energy Out"

If you consume more energy (food/calories) than your body burns (matter of energy expenditure and metabolism) you gain weight!

If it is equal, you stay the same and if you take in less than you (individually!) burn, than you lose weight.

THAT is my "stereotyping" and has directly something to do with physiology in a "normal" body.

Nothing else!

Udor? You do know that this depends on the individual because metabolism plays a big factor in this.

UdoR wrote:
We end up again with the issue of ignorance, and if this is part of your nutrition class... then it shows how deeply rooted this ignorance and misinformation is in this society and educational system... no surprise here!

I really don't know what you're inferring here.  So I guess I am indeed ignorant in that regard.  The text the class used was written by Fahey, Insel and Roth. . .ISBN 0072844345 if you'd care to look into it.  The text supports the "concepts" of the class which were "physical fitness and wellness."  Some of the course actually referred us to sites online like the National Center for Health Statistics and the National Diabetes Association to name two.  So I guess all these individuals and sources know nothing at all by your standards.  Well okay.  Glad to know that THAT little portion of my higher education is wasted.  That's time I can never get back.

Legacys 7 wrote:

Udor? You do know that this depends on the individual because metabolism plays a big factor in this.

Yes and No!

It is the individual metabolism of a person that determines the weight gain or loss.

It's not that this formula is a constant, but a variable, reflecting the individuals metabolic rate and energy intake vs. expenditure.

The formula is applicable to anybody, really!

If you eat more than your own body burns... etc.

The amounts are different from person to person.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Do I have to look up my German/American Dictionary to make a proper translation of that principle?

Where am I expecting too much to be understood? I think that is so simple.

Damn... maybe I should just write in German and you guys try to translate it yourself.

Jakki Browne wrote:
Ok I will commit the the ultimate sin: commenting on a topic that I am so tired of!  Yes I should just skip the thread if I am tired of it but I can't.  As a thick, curvy, fat, obese, overweight, plus-size (depending on your perception) "model;"

I am sorry Jakki;

I looked at your portfolio and I don't see "fat", "obese" or "overweight" at all!

You have a certain body type that looks fantastic on you and you are very proportionate.

Jakki Browne wrote:
Ok I will commit the the ultimate sin: commenting on a topic that I am so tired of!  Yes I should just skip the thread if I am tired of it but I can't.  As a thick, curvy, fat, obese, overweight, plus-size (depending on your perception) "model;" I do feel that there are always threads that bash thin models.  I think it is possible to be proud of your shape without calling other people anorexic, bulimic and the like.  Just like you can be proud of being a woman without man-bashing and the list goes on. But it does seem like it is acceptable for plus-size models to make comments about thin girls and not the reverse.    But maybe I missed all the plus-size bashing threads, I guess those aren't as popular.

Nope. . .you didn't miss them. . .they're just as popular.  Just I guess right now the "industry" is taking a stab at it too, and it's just as wrong.  The bigger women have quieted down a bit b/c now the industry that they "supposedly" can't thrive in. . .has taken notice to the message they're sending out "do whatever it takes to be thin b/c thin = in and accepted". . .evidently they want to change that.  Now that the slimmer ones are on the receiving end of a message that bigger women have always been on. . .it's a big deal.  Big women have had to deal with being told "no thanks" for a long long time. . .now the "waif" look is phasing itself out and some are all up in arms about it. . .some are actually happy about it and that's what is pissing Udo off I think.  I dunno.  My ignorance has come up already.

Personally, I've never condoned the "bashing" of any body type.  I HAVE expressed my concern and disdain for those that went to extremes to achieve a "standard" of beauty that is clearly unattainable for them. . .be those people big or small.  I also severely dislike stereotypes of any kind, be it all skinny people have an eating disorder, or all fat people eat too much.  You can't judge a book by its cover, so don't!