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Momma doesn't like the shots!!
So, I got an interesting phone call today from a mother...Let me backtrack...Last weekend I did a shoot. Two young ladies aged 19 & 20. I had been in communication with one of the girls for a few weeks about the shoot that we did. I even met her about 3 weeks before last weekend so we could get a feel for each other-typical stuff. We discussed that we were going to do lingerie, swimsuit, other various articles of clothing, and covered nude...everything was all good. The 2nd girl was all good with it as well. We did the shoot, everything was great... I had even posted some of the shots on this website (notice I said I "had" posted shots). I had them sign a release saying that they gave me permission to shoot them, and that they were at least 18 yrs of age, and that I could use the photographs to post on various websited like this one. I even took a snapshot of their ID's to furtehr verity. As I edited some of the shots, I would send them to the girls through email...and they absolutey loved them. Said they wanted to get together again and do more...and that they had a 3rd friend that wanted to do some as well. So, back to the phone call...apparently some family members had seen some of the shots (one of the girls had put them on MySpace), and everyone was irate. 1st Mom called me and we discussed the matter saying that her daughter should not have entered into any contract, and that she wanted the shots to be taken down (she had not seen the shots yet, but was going by what other people had said about them). About 20 minutes later, the girl calls me saying that she wanted me to take the shots down, and Momma (who was evidently looking at the shots at the time) was cursing her out screaming "Look at this SH*T!!" What were you thinking!! etc... I am a nice guy so I did take the shots down...anybody have an experience like this before? Aug 20 06 08:16 pm Link J-waun Photography wrote: No, I've never had quite that experience, but it's a pretty sure bet that others will have as long as nice guys don't defend their contracts. I might very well have taken them down, but not without making it very clear that she's over the age of majority, she signed a contract, and the mother has absolutely nothing to say about it. In fact, I probably would have made them send the request to my lawyer before I took them down. But then I'm just a little bit of a nice guy. Aug 20 06 08:23 pm Link yes, you are a nice guy. Now, sent the mom a bill for your wasted time on the photo shoot since you have lost use of the work. (You haven't really lost it since you have every right to do with the images as you see fit within the bounds of your release.) Aug 20 06 08:26 pm Link yes, i have had similiar in the past, i employ a real good lawyer for just this s--t. Aug 20 06 08:27 pm Link Happens all the time. Check past photogs' posts about it. Basically at 19 and 20 they should be able to make their own decisions, and they did, but they are also most likely still living at home off their parents' dime so that will also make them feel like they are obligated to respect their wishes. It sucks when models don't take this into account in the first place and then have angry mothers/fathers/husbands/boyfriends/etc. getting in a photographer's face about pics he/she thought he/she was taking in good faith. It was very nice of you to take the shots down, although many will tell you that legally you might not have had to. In the future, avoid these models unless you plan to shoot them in a parka. But not a sexy parka. Aug 20 06 08:28 pm Link Just to avoid the bullshit I would have taken the shots down, BUT I would have been a first class ass about it and reminded them of the LEGAL contract they singed as LEGAL adults with SOUND minds and told their mother to eat a dick and learn how to let her children grow the hell up and make decisions on their own before I did it. **click** Aug 20 06 08:31 pm Link the dreaded Mama threat! wait for the dreaded BF "dont let me come over there " phonecall and the model "I changed my mind" phone call Aug 20 06 08:31 pm Link I would contact the mother and ask her to buy all the photographs. They would not be cheap. Then I would put them back up until she came up with the money. Let her get a lawyer (if she can't afford the photos, where will she get $15 grand for a retainer), you don't even need one with a contract. The judge will not bring this to trial. Aug 20 06 08:33 pm Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Sexy parka...Too funny! Aug 20 06 08:35 pm Link I think you allowed yourself to be bullied by a aggressive mom. One who has adult daughters. In the future don't talk with mom, dad or anyone else besides the models themselves about your work. When she called you, you should have been polite and told her that you were not going to talk with her about the issue. If she called again tell her that if she harass you that you will call the police. Does mom tell them who to date and what to think? If so thats their family and they shouldn't bring their drama to you. At this point you've spent time and money to get nothing but a headache. Aug 20 06 08:36 pm Link J-waun Photography wrote: Hey there are sexy parkas out there. I mean, they aren't for warmth or the snow, but still. Aug 20 06 08:42 pm Link i put it in my new contract that if you at a later data wont me to take down any photos you pay me 1000$ a peace and it would not cover any PS art end of story it was your time they are your photos and they are over 18 so nop no go stand your ground and sell them some way and make your self $$$ and have a good time with it  Aug 20 06 08:43 pm Link Tony Lawrence wrote: There's legally right and there's morally right. He did the morally right thing and respected the model's (not the mom's) wishes; that speaks highly of his character. Aug 20 06 08:46 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: There's nothing "moral" about being a chicken-hearted sap. Basically the OP proved that he's not really a photographer, but just a GWC making us all look bad by kissing up to some silly third party [mom=Sluggo]. I would love for this crazy shrew to call me...My lawyer would be giving her a shoe leather enema as we speak. Aug 20 06 08:52 pm Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: This is much better than the version I was concocting. Aug 20 06 08:54 pm Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Yo Melvin, when my mom calls you, please be nice to her! Aug 20 06 08:56 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: I'm not sure about it being the moral thing to do but it will save him some problems Aug 20 06 09:00 pm Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: I almost hit the floor. I love it a shoe enema. Too funny. Aug 20 06 09:02 pm Link UnoMundo Photography wrote: Never had the Mama threat. Have had a few models change their mind (they pay me what I think the photos will make via sales, and they get to share the distribution rights to them). Aug 20 06 09:05 pm Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Susi wrote: And what should I do when your mom calls me, Susi? Esp. if she sees the shot of you in my portfolio here! Aug 20 06 09:06 pm Link After Melvin she'll probably be to worn out to call anyone else...haha;-) Aug 20 06 09:11 pm Link You should have left the shots up on your site if they were good. The girl was over 18 and responsible for her actions. No Mr. Nice Guy! Aug 20 06 09:13 pm Link Susi wrote: True, but I'm trying to think how many fetishes we covered with that one shot... I can see at least 5! Aug 20 06 09:15 pm Link I wouldn't have taken the shots down. I would have simply told them they signed a release and knew exactly what they were doing and had no objections with the photos. If mom can't deal with it it's her problem. If she wants to do a full buy-out at commercial rates then that would be a possibility, but it wouldn't be cheap. Also, I wouldn't agree that the OP did the morally right thing. Why was it morally right for him to take the images down because of the model's mom who had absolutely nothing to do with the shoot? I think the demand from her to take them down wasn't morally right, as she is directly impacting the photographer who took them. Mom needs to understand her kiddies are adults now and can legally make their own decisions. It isn't right of her to bring her issues and drama to the photographer who had no clue to her questionable nature. -P- Aug 20 06 09:48 pm Link I am greatly appreciating all of the viewpoints from everyone! Thanks for responding to my dilemna! Aug 20 06 09:51 pm Link if those models are over 18 and signed a legal contract then their momma has no say at all. now if the models asked you to take it down ya they'd be breaking their contract and you can either be a nice guy and do it or take em to small claims court and demand something for the damages if you want to take it that far. Aug 20 06 09:55 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: There is huh? What moral principle are you referring to with respect to your assertion that he did the right thing? Since the model was of age, I think it was inappropriate to even discuss this with some other person. It's not respectful of the model as an adult. They had an agreement. Aug 20 06 09:57 pm Link two words... agency models you can't work with newbies, wannabees, and nevergonnabees and not run into this stuff and worse. paying an attorney to respond to this nonsense? what? how freakin hardup are you? yes there are some pros not represented, and i suppose some of them may talk me into giving them a chance. i will and do require references from freelance models wanting to test... and i get paid for those tests. i lecture the models here on the consequences of their want-something-for-nothing mentality. i have no problem lecturing you all for the same behavior. Aug 20 06 09:59 pm Link Pat Thielen wrote: Please read posts more closely. I said "model's request". Aug 20 06 10:00 pm Link Just file them away and hope she gets famous someday and then remember how nice the Mother was!!!!! I have had the Boyfriend, the Dad and the Mom. Not worth the time to F@*& with it. Aug 20 06 10:03 pm Link No, taking them down was not the moral thing to do. It was the virtuous thing to do. Called mercy. He decided that his being merciful was worth more to him than allowing them to do the moral thing of honoring a legal contract. Technically speaking it might be considered immoral to enable and encourage someone to break a legal contract. Aug 20 06 10:03 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: So mom had nothing to do with you taking down the images? The request may have come from the models but we all know it was instigated by mom. If she doesn't like them she can pay for them. This is just another version of the "jealous boyfriend" scenario, and it shouldn't be encouraged. They signed a release, you photographed their licenses, they were happy with the shots. Mom didn't like them and you took them down. Aug 20 06 10:03 pm Link Pat Thielen wrote: Aug 20 06 10:08 pm Link Pat Thielen wrote: I didn't write that...someone else did! Aug 20 06 10:09 pm Link Curt Burgess wrote: Do unto others... Aug 20 06 10:09 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: It was a business decision. Give away a 10 cent candle and insert themselves as a great business into your psyche. Look how effective their 10c investment was. Aug 20 06 10:11 pm Link J-waun Photography wrote: oops.. sorry about that! Hey everyone -- Quit confusing me! Aug 20 06 10:11 pm Link Pat Thielen wrote: You really gotta start reading more closely. I'm not the OP. Aug 20 06 10:12 pm Link oldguysrule wrote: HAHAHAHAHA!! Aug 20 06 10:14 pm Link Ought To Be Shot wrote: Well... had it been me I wouldn't have gone back into the store to even try to see if they would do something. I would have simply bought another one and been done with it. If I break something its my fault and I take the responsibility to fix it. While it may be good customer service, as they will probably get repeat business from you, I don't think it was really fair to even mention the broken candle to them in the first place. You kind of set them up that way to either replace it, or not replace it and risk losing a customer. In this case its not a question of legalities but one of morals. Aug 20 06 10:15 pm Link |
