Sunny Subramanian wrote:
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing.

There ya go.  Chalk it up as a waste of time and move on.  I can imagine this is very frustrating for you but if the pictures aren't worth it, they're not worth the increase in blood pressure either.

-PKD

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

you cant out her here at MM, but you can out  Here



http://p082.ezboard.com/fmakeupandrelat … triesfrm13

    we appreciate the heads up.

Sergio Antonio wrote:
I have a suggestion, bring your own laptop if you have one, and ask the photographer to upload the pictures if we are talking about DSLR cameras being used.  That way you don't have to wait for them to give you the CD.

No. No one's having them until I've edited them. Nope.

Sergio Antonio wrote:
I have a suggestion, bring your own laptop if you have one, and ask the photographer to upload the pictures if we are talking about DSLR cameras being used.  That way you don't have to wait for them to give you the CD.

Oh
My
Gods
that is ENTIRELY mental

UnoMundo Photography wrote:
get a kiddie pool, some Crisco, fight the photographer nude !

Yeah! And we'll bring the cameras and model releases! Woohoo!

Tiffany Cottey wrote:
you crazy kids...though that does sound rather interesting..haha

xoxo, Tiff C.

Crazy? Who are you calling crazy...?

  Hey... I resemble that remark! 

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Some models have put warnings in their profile and the mods don't seem to have an issue with this.

FYI, I send my CDs via FedEx so I have a tracking number

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Why didn't you just take your shoes off?

Anyway, that sucks.

Don't work with her again.

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Dayum, dayum, dayum.  I counted like fourteen red flags.  Ok. . .not fourteen, but you get the picture.  There's more caution tape around this woman than a crime scene, and it should be counted for what it is: a learning experience. 

Clearly this individual lies (at least from the picture being painted here) so. . .there's no need to put any faith into her words.  The proofs were disappointing, so let go.  Move on to the next art student. . .em I mean photographer. 

Todd S. wrote:
Folks, you are only hearing one side of the story here. Remember that.

Todd S.
MM Moderator

Probably so but she's not breaking any rules and not 'outing' the photographer in question.  She asked for advice and she's receiving it with a nice cup of sympathy

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Do your due diligence next time.

Your other options are (ethics aside):

- If the mods don't have a problem with it, out her on your profile page and send her a message notifying her that you're outing her.

- Write a letter of complaint to the school and the instructor of the course and tell them they're falling down in their jobs for not teaching the ethics as well as the mechanics (it's not their problem but, hey, being a squeeky wheel and all...)

- Write her once a day and keep asking when you're going to get the shots. Be a pain in the ass.


But if the shots suck...

- Out her on your profile page, tell her you're doing it, and then add that the shots suck, you don't want the images cuz they do you more harm than good, but that you're outing her cuz it's a matter of principle.

- Then send her a bill.

Todd S. wrote:
Folks, you are only hearing one side of the story here. Remember that.

Todd S.
MM Moderator

Correct. Also, given the information in the OP it only took me four seconds to find out who the photographer was.

You had to walk to the studio from a parking lot?
She did not own the studio you were shooting in?
You did not like the pictures?

I assure you these are not unique to you. Better luck in your future shoots.

Todd S. wrote:
Folks, you are only hearing one side of the story here. Remember that.

Todd S.
MM Moderator

Yes yes, we all know how good it feels to throw a pity party for ourselves. And what with the Interweb and all, we no longer have to do it alone in our rooms.

To elaborate on my earlier statement, no one here has made any query as to the other side of this issue, and there is a lot of mudslinging (even if it's somewhat oblique) at an anonymous target that may or may not be legitimate.

And that's the problem with threads like this - a lot of times they're started knowing that the other party either cannot (because he/she is not an MM member) or would rather not defend themselves.

The photographer in question has come to CAM requesting some remedy to this. I have suggested that she out herself and tell her side of the story. You might be surprised.

Todd S.
MM Moderator

Harold Rose wrote:
HI:   There are a lot of things that could have been avoided here,  and you know that now.   
     There are very few professionals that will do a  FTP  or  FTCD.    I do them when I am searching for models.    I have times of the year that I wish to renew contacts and make new ones for the future..
      I have no idea where you are,,  but if your are in the south east  near Chattanooga  or Atlanata you might contact me..  Yes I am a full time professional.  Harold Rose

haha...it's TFP/TFCD not FTP...haha..change the P toa D and you have flowers at your door!

Oliver Cole wrote:
Sunny,

I take it that this was a TFP/TFCD shoot. If so you at 26 years of age should realize that you get what you pay for ..or don't. There is no free lunch, or something for nothing. Your ability to model is quite evident in and through your online images and from this point on, you and other models who are serious and tired of the crass acts of un-professional photographers....HIRE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!! That means one with a studio, a business location, a working phone, e-mail, website, etc..

Oliver

Why should SOME photographers think there should ALSO be a free lunch.  TFP is a TRADE....your services for mine.  Photographers need to also hire models for testing out their equipment etc...I have shot with MANY very experienced and professional photographers.  Actually every one of them have been excellent!  (and I have only HAD to pay for one)

Todd S. wrote:
The photographer in question has come to CAM requesting some remedy to this. I have suggested that she out herself and tell her side of the story. You might be surprised.

The suspense is terrible... I hope it lasts.

Oliver Cole wrote:
Sunny,

I take it that this was a TFP/TFCD shoot. If so you at 26 years of age should realize that you get what you pay for ..or don't. There is no free lunch, or something for nothing. Your ability to model is quite evident in and through your online images and from this point on, you and other models who are serious and tired of the crass acts of un-professional photographers....HIRE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!! That means one with a studio, a business location, a working phone, e-mail, website, etc..

Oliver

So what you're saying is that unless money changes hands, people are under no obligation to honor the commitments they make.

I hope you're kidding, dude.

RXM

LarryB wrote:

The suspense is terrible... I hope it lasts.

Will Wonka, FTW!

Star wrote:
It was suggested that I tell my side of the story by a mod. I am just going to tell me side of the shoot story in this way I hope to address the inaccuracies in her statements. At the end I will show the photos we got together.

I shot with a model a few months ago, MM#101981, a real nightmare day the mua didn't show and the model wasn't prepared with any make-up so I had to wait for an hour for a replacement MUA.

Normally in this situation I just do the make-up myself since while I am not a licensed cosmetologist I can do Ok make-up. To see an example go to my port here https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=620927 (the model did the lips according to my specifications, I can't do lips my hand shakes. And I also did her hair.)

We shot on Stage 2 at Art Center College of Design, and used the make-up room to get ready. I had two 60's outfits to attempt and get that old MOD look with a perfect white background, my assignment was the white background.


The shoot itself was ok, it never evolved beyond simple portraiture. Sunny is very sure of how does and does not look good, it wasn't possible to get her to relax around me. That happens, sometimes models and photographers don't click.

That is why I try to test with models before I do larger more involved shoots with them, so I can see if we work well together. I do have to state though that many times I am only able to work with a model once, our schedules are too tight to ever get together again.

Next month I am working with several models I recently did small test shoot with.

Eva: Fairitalianlady did her make-up, and it was a good job too.

That is all I wish to say about the shoot, I had equipment failure and had to fix it but beyond that nothing remarkable happened.

About the turn around time, I was late with the photos. Once I opened them up large I realized that they would be more time consuming than thought. Unfortunately the car took that time to break down, my landlords refused my access to the breaker room and my electricity kept going off, and in the heat wave my loft was over 104 degrees every day.

However, Sunny was given notification of my longer return time before we shot together. I tried to go faster, but was unable to.

examples from my old profile:

"Turnaround time Turn around time is at this point 3-5 weeks from the date I receive your image requests. It cannot be done quicker. It just can't. I also send all images over the internet, if you need your images on a CD/DVD I request a self addressed stamped envelope including one blank CD/DVD to burn onto."

To address the idea that we would be doing something more "creative," I cannot be held responsible, unless you come to me with strong shoot idea, to be able to always have a creative idea. I shoot twice a week, sometimes I just am not moved by your appearance, or I feel like doing a quiet shoot of beauty.

To back this up
examples from the standard TFP letter I send anyone interested in working together, I cannot guarantee Sunny got this as I deleted all our correspondence together when she kept interrupting my finals week:

"Shoot concepts: I could be shooting anything from Sin City to Fairy Tale theater it all depends on your looks and how I see you fitting into what I am shooting. Take it as a given that everybody always feels that their shoot was the shoot that wasn't as cool. The mod girls want to be fairy tales; the kabuki girls want to be mod. If you have a strong shoot concept than please share it with me and we will see if we can find a way to make it happen."

and

"- break down. I ask all my models to help me fold and put away costuming. Break down sets etc.… This is how I can avoid charging for my services. "

Sunny claims to have been used as an assistant, I don't quite see how this is too bad since what she did was put up a c-stand and help get the background up. She only stayed a few minutes during break down, and did not hang up her costuming when we were done. Anyone who does assisting would be offended by her statement that that was assisting.

About getting the images to her, part 2

I mailed the CD to her she claimed not to receive it, this is probably true since three other people did not receive their CD either. Maybe I even flaked and never mailed it. But to address this she sent me mail after mail after mail, sometimes two and three in one day.

I wrote back that I would be unable to deal with her request until after finals week. She has left tag after tag harassing me on MM, so I finally set aside one night (August 9th) to email the files to her, 5 emails to get her the the 9x12 240dpi unwatermarked images for her book. The email address she provided bounced it back.

I wrote her that I would be done with school in a week and a half. I was angry, the email was angry. I forwarded her the bounced back message so she could understand why she didn't get the files.

She left two more messages on MM, five more emails, and another tag.

Now she has started a forum posting. I have told her that I am tempted to delete her files from my hardrive as I have attempted delivery and through no fault of my own was she unable to receive them. Also as she has publicly stated that they are no good I am unsure why I should break my back trying to get them to her again, and again.

I have a wicked temper and attempting to keep this from escalating to full out war.

My one  fear is that this one model is going to put my professional reputation at risk, not that I have much of one yet.

There are other models, mud's, large fluffy tribbles who hate me, and ones that love me. Most just deal with me as a professional. That is always going to be true.

The fact is is that at a certain point it becomes a case of he said/she said. She shot on the same stage that trained Sofia Coppala, and she calls it a classroom. How many classrooms do you know of that have catwalks and 100 ft high ceilings?


All I can do is attempt to deliver the images to her in the fashion she requested, her email address is from Yahoo and she does not pay for it so it does no accept large attachments. I finally against my better judgment forwarded the files to my email proof address I made in case of these situations.

Below are examples of the photos and a copy of the stage shot from that shoot, the one with the logo is the one I liked. They are mostly unretouched for wrinkles, and circles under the eyes.

I also included a shot of the Mua's hand just in case there was a question of their being one present, and a larger shot to show the models face better.

Well I'm glad she revealed herself!!! 

An e-mail I sent to her:
What we had discussed:
photo shoot
MUA & hair stylist
photos in a timely manner
you asked me to bring a variety of clothes

REALITY:
school assignment, not a REAL photo shoot
you didn't use any of my wardrobe
you were incredibly rude when i got to your school and
throughout the day
MUA didn't show up and my hair wasn't don't until you
      tied that weed thing all up in it
btw, not having a hair stylist delayed the shoot by
HOURS, remember?
you said pix would be ready by July 3rd... nope
you said you'd re-send them... nope
you sent one batch and it went thru and then you
complained that my e-mail doesn't work...hmmm... (so
if my e-mail doesn't work how did I already get 4
images from you????)
I gave you my mailing address, and you act like I
didn't
you've ignored numerous e-mails from me
You've insulted me when it's you that is being
unprofessional and disrespectful
You should NEVER have posted my picture until I got a
copy of it... I'm happy to say you took it down, tho'

I have worked with numerous photographers on MM and
you have been the rudest, most unprofessional,
disrespectful of them all!  You misrepresented
yourself as a real photographer; you hid the fact that
you're really just a student doing a school project.

If I had known this, I would have never wasted my
time.

This shoot was TFP. Do you know what that stands for?
Where the hell are my photos?

It doesn't matter if the photos are terrible, I
deserve a copy as payment as was agreed upon on MM,
via e-mails and in the contract.

S.

................

3-5 weeks?!!  Then why did you e-mail me saying they'd be sent by Jul 3rd?????!!!
Well, it's been over 2 months and I'm still pretty much photoless, so I'll try to copy paste the ones you have posted in this message.... pretty lame, huh?

I just want my fellow models to know what they are in for while working with you.  You were incredibly rude the entire day of the shoot and treated my kind of like crap.  I wasn't feeling it. And to top it off, I never received a copy of my photos.  Had you just kept your end of the bargain, none of this would have happened... aside from a very bad shoot experience.