Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.

Okay, is it me or is it possible, just POSSIBLE, that a school assigment could be a creative shoot?

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.

Art school???  You mean the person is actually being trained to be an artist vs. just buying a dslr with a long lens and calling himself a photographer???The nerve of someone.  And I just can't believe that an art school studio is a real place to make art.  HORRIBLE.  I have goosebumps just with the thought of it.

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.

You know what, that kind of stuff happens.  Especially if the photographer hasn't thought the logistical stuff out ahead.  But come on, this is something to post in a public forum????

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.

Was this TFP per chance? 

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).

Either take off the friggin shoes or when the photographer say's "help me set up," you say, "screw you."

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing.

They're not bad.  Agreed they're not my cup of tea, but if I shot you you'd mostly be in shadows and the part we could see, you'd have purple skin .

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Want to ensure photos?  Pay the photographer.

As the last 2 .5 years of my life can attest, shit happens.  Especially if one is a student or living just a bit at the margins. 


Posts like this remind me why I'm really cautious about people I work with.

Oliver Cole wrote:
Sunny,

I take it that this was a TFP/TFCD shoot. If so you at 26 years of age should realize that you get what you pay for ..or don't. There is no free lunch, or something for nothing.

That, simply is Crap!

-Glenn

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
It was TFP!  I most certainly don't work for free!  And in this case if was working for a copy of the photos.  And no, this wasn't a creative shoot.  It was a frickin' lighting assignment!

OMG.  What the hell do you think photography is?  The word photography means "painting/writing with light."  Greek--photo= light  graph=write.

ALL Of photography is a lighting assigment.   Just because it's a school assignment doesn't make it less creative.

JE-SUS.

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
An e-mail I sent to her:
What we had discussed:
photo shoot
MUA & hair stylist
photos in a timely manner
you asked me to bring a variety of clothes

REALITY:
school assignment, not a REAL photo shoot
you didn't use any of my wardrobe
you were incredibly rude when i got to your school and
throughout the day
MUA didn't show up and my hair wasn't don't until you
      tied that weed thing all up in it
btw, not having a hair stylist delayed the shoot by
HOURS, remember?
you said pix would be ready by July 3rd... nope
you said you'd re-send them... nope
you sent one batch and it went thru and then you
complained that my e-mail doesn't work...hmmm... (so
if my e-mail doesn't work how did I already get 4
images from you????)
I gave you my mailing address, and you act like I
didn't
you've ignored numerous e-mails from me
You've insulted me when it's you that is being
unprofessional and disrespectful
You should NEVER have posted my picture until I got a
copy of it... I'm happy to say you took it down, tho'

I have worked with numerous photographers on MM and
you have been the rudest, most unprofessional,
disrespectful of them all!  You misrepresented
yourself as a real photographer; you hid the fact that
you're really just a student doing a school project.

If I had known this, I would have never wasted my
time.

This shoot was TFP. Do you know what that stands for?
Where the hell are my photos?

It doesn't matter if the photos are terrible, I
deserve a copy as payment as was agreed upon on MM,
via e-mails and in the contract.

S.

................

3-5 weeks?!!  Then why did you e-mail me saying they'd be sent by Jul 3rd?????!!!
Well, it's been over 2 months and I'm still pretty much photoless, so I'll try to copy paste the ones you have posted in this message.... pretty lame, huh?

I just want my fellow models to know what they are in for while working with you.  You were incredibly rude the entire day of the shoot and treated my kind of like crap.  I wasn't feeling it. And to top it off, I never received a copy of my photos.  Had you just kept your end of the bargain, none of this would have happened... aside from a very bad shoot experience.

Well Sunny, had you ever considered that I represnted myself with my photographs, they were something you wanted so you agreed to shoot. You brought clothing that I did not think worth photographing.

You were tired, cranky, and had large circles under your eyes.

"Well, it's been over 2 months and I'm still pretty much photoless, so I'll try to copy paste the ones you have posted in this message.... pretty lame, huh?"

in response here is a quote from your latest email, the fourth in the last three days,

"4 of 5 is not a zip file of compressed jpeg images. It's a Final Cut Pro file. 1 - 3 of 5 worked fine. Also, 5 of 5 is missing. We're almost done here. Just send 4 of 5 and 5 of 5 to this e-mail address and we'll finally be done."

So practically photoless is with 10 out of 15 photos, oh how I feel the PAIN!!!

"I wasn't feeling it." Of course you weren't feeling it, you refused to listen even the tiniest bit to any direction. You images all have the same face Sunny, shot from below or above. You insisted on smiling a giant smile that did not a thing to your face but make the wrinkles around your eyes apparant.

Sunny, I just downloaded 4 of 5 and it is not final cut pro. Until you apologise for the lies about not having a make-up artist, (it being in a classroom etc....) Eva Woodby, she was your make-up artist or have you forgotten, I am disinclined to bother myself any more with you,

Star

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

Oliver Cole wrote:
Sunny,

I take it that this was a TFP/TFCD shoot. If so you at 26 years of age should realize that you get what you pay for ..or don't. There is no free lunch, or something for nothing. Your ability to model is quite evident in and through your online images and from this point on, you and other models who are serious and tired of the crass acts of un-professional photographers....HIRE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER!!! That means one with a studio, a business location, a working phone, e-mail, website, etc..

Oliver

I have studio in my home. I have a website and have an Email address and a working phone. However, I am not a "professional" photographer, per se. Having a phone, website, etc., does not make you a good photographer. There are many non-pros (who enjoy photography as an art) on MM that do pretty darn good work. The fact that they (we) are not "professional" photographers does not give you and others license to hammer us because one person had a bad experience with one photographer.

I cruise MM on a regular basis and have seen some ports (non-pro) where the work is stunning. Yes, they (we) do TFP work. I assume you never did?

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I'm here to let you know though that things happen.  MUA'S are late, equipment breaks and sometimes
people just don't click (pardon the pun)

So true!! I shot Nicole Sione MM # 28530 and would you believe I showed up with a battery that had less than 40% remaining on the battery?!  So here I am, at BEACH, with this beautiful model who was recently informed that she made Maxim's 2006 Hometown Hotties Top 10 and an MUA.  I nearly messed myself and seriously...I WANTED to cry.  I felt like a stupid irresponsible asshole.  All I said was, I'll be right back! and I ran off with the battery and charger.  I found a local who was willing to plug it in for me at his home but I'd have to wait 45 minutes.  Now, for those that know me, I shoot my beach sessions late in the evenings to get normal daylight shoots and then sunsets.  45 minutes is a LOT of lost light.  What are you going to do?

To her credit, after I admitted my stupidity, she simply smiled, shrugged her shoulders and told me to not worry about it.  I was all ready to get some nasty look or even a word or two about wasting her time.  And for all I know, that's how she felt.  Instead, she was gracious about it.  And wouldn't you know it, we got some of the best shots I've ever gotten.

You're right, things happen.  But it's what we do afterwards that shows people who we REALLY are.

Clique7 Studios wrote:
I have studio in my home. I have a website and have an Email address and a working phone. However, I am not a "professional" photographer, per se. Having a phone, website, etc., does not make you a good photographer. There are many non-pros (who enjoy photography as an art) on MM that do pretty darn good work. The fact that they (we) are not "professional" photographers does not give you and others license to hammer us because one person had a bad experience with one photographer.

I cruise MM on a regular basis and have seen some ports (non-pro) where the work is stunning. Yes, they (we) do TFP work. I assume you never did?

Now this above is your post..I cannot address you by name as you choose to remain nameless, yet you go by a studio name.

I had a studio in my home for years before I got my stand alone studio.
I have been published. I got/get paid for the published shots.
I make 99% of my income from photography.
I have a federal tax ID number. (must have for ANY legitimate business)
I have been in business for over 20 years, registered with the county where my business is.
I am under contract for 1 year with a new magazine..paid.

No one is hammering YOU..it's the model who put this thread/HER business in a public forum.

NOWHERE on your profile do you indicate that you charge for your photography...hence YOU ARE NOT a professional photographer.

Oliver Cole

DigitalCMH wrote:

So true!! I shot Nicole Sione MM # 28530 and would you believe I showed up with a battery that had less than 40% remaining on the battery?!  So here I am, at BEACH, with this beautiful model who was recently informed that she made Maxim's 2006 Hometown Hotties Top 10 and an MUA.  I nearly messed myself and seriously...I WANTED to cry.  I felt like a stupid irresponsible asshole.  All I said was, I'll be right back! and I ran off with the battery and charger.  I found a local who was willing to plug it in for me at his home but I'd have to wait 45 minutes.  Now, for those that know me, I shoot my beach sessions late in the evenings to get normal daylight shoots and then sunsets.  45 minutes is a LOT of lost light.  What are you going to do?

To her credit, after I admitted my stupidity, she simply smiled, shrugged her shoulders and told me to not worry about it.  I was all ready to get some nasty look or even a word or two about wasting her time.  And for all I know, that's how she felt.  Instead, she was gracious about it.  And wouldn't you know it, we got some of the best shots I've ever gotten.

You're right, things happen.  But it's what we do afterwards that shows people who we REALLY are.

Excellent post.  Its very hard to really know what happened but what is
apparant is that there was a real break down.  Who's at fault?  Who knows
but I like how your model handled your problem.  She was gracious and things
worked out.  Sometimes things go south in shoots and when they do its nice
to have cool models.  Heck sometimes the results are bad.  Nothing worse then
having a model out you over poor results.  I think some of us should take carefull
note of this thread.  Things happen its what we do afterwards that shows
people who we really are.  Great comment.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Excellent post.  Its very hard to really know what happened but what is
apparant is that there was a real break down.  Who's at fault?  Who knows
but I like how your model handled your problem.  She was gracious and things
worked out.  Sometimes things go south in shoots and when they do its nice
to have cool models.  Heck sometimes the results are bad.  Nothing worse then
having a model out you over poor results.  I think some of us should take carefull
note of this thread.  Things happen its what we do afterwards that shows
people who we really are.  Great comment.

I'm trying to remember the quote, I believe from the first Spiderman movie, that would apply to comment but it better said.

N3 Media wrote:
Sorry Star, I think you screwed her.

Hmmm... interesting.  I'm curious why you would say this.  Based on what the model
said there was no MUA but now we see there was one.  Things like she didn't
know the school but it seems she may have been there before or worked there.
I'm not taking sides because I really don't know but the no MUA when there was
one is a huge thing because if there was and Star has provided that information
and the model says there was no MUA, somebodies being untruthful.  There is
a old court saying.  Untruthful in one thing, untruthful in all.

Oliver Cole wrote:

Now this above is your post..I cannot address you by name as you choose to remain nameless, yet you go by a studio name.

I had a studio in my home for years before I got my stand alone studio.
I have been published. I got/get paid for the published shots.
I make 99% of my income from photography.
I have a federal tax ID number. (must have for ANY legitimate business)
I have been in business for over 20 years, registered with the county where my business is.
I am under contract for 1 year with a new magazine..paid.

No one is hammering YOU..it's the model who put this thread/HER business in a public forum.

NOWHERE on your profile do you indicate that you charge for your photography...hence YOU ARE NOT a professional photographer.

Oliver Cole

Oliver,

That wasn't your point. Your original point was, if it's a tfcd or tfp they are not a professional and they will get low quality work.

there are some so called 'pros' out here who pull the same stunts. Some try to get into other model's pants, others will not give the models prints or media at a reasonable time etc...For some 'pro' is just a label that some wear.

As for the photographer, there still is alot of excuses here from what I've read. Ok, there are some that are trying to justify her reasons is due to her being a student. I'm a student too, but the student thing becomes tired. When you are hiring a model for whatever that assignment is going to be, you are obligated to get her what she is expecting.

The photographer has already confirmed many of her negative expereinces. I also think that the model, if she was that uncomfortable, should've just told the model no on helping her with the job and have her reschedualed. She didn't do this. So they are both at fault here. But in the end, it's all irrelevant because the model hasn't received her media. This is the issue.

Star wrote:
I also included a shot of the Mua's hand just in case there was a question of their being one present, and a larger shot to show the models face better.

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.

Any suggestions?

Sure, Sunny. Here's a suggestion - don't lie when there is photographic evidence to prove that you are not telling the truth.

UnoMundo Photography wrote:
get a kiddie pool, some Crisco, fight the photographer nude !

BGC is that you lol

i take back what i sed after reading all the thread i had a long bad day

nathan combs wrote:

BGC is that you lol

ok what happened is BAD but i like to make a point this is a inexperienced photographer that probably only photoed 1 or 2 other people before and made some sitakes and BIG ones at that i hope that she the photographer learnd some thing out of it i know i made some f ups my self like i sed i NOT taking the photographers side i with the model

Who's drunker.. Him or me?

W.G. Rowland wrote:

Who's drunker.. Him or me?

i posted befor i read all the thred i take back what i sed exeped the BGC coment lol  lol not drunk VERY tierd long day

Chip Morton wrote:
Gnarly thread!

Where's the keg?

Powder keg, you mean. Already blew.

Sunny Subramanian wrote:
A photographer on this site asked me to shoot with her... I was under the assumption it was going to be a creative shoot but it turned out to be part of a school assignment.  She gave me the address of her "studio" which turned out to be a room at her art school.  After parking on a hill at the school, I called her cell asking her where the "studio" was and she told me to ask any random person for directions.  Turns out the only parking lot was sooooooooooo far from the room in which we were shooting and I had heels on and a giant suitcase full of clothes (we she opted not to use at all for the shoot) and it was all downhill.
She promised an MUA and hair stylist and there were neither.  I was basically her assistant throughout the shoot; she made me help set up and break down her equiptment (again, while in heels).
The photos themselves (via proofs) are disappointing. 
The real reason for the entry: she won't give me a copy of the photos!!!  It's been over 2 months since our shoot!  We shot June 20 and she e-mailed me saying the photos would be e-mailed to me by July 3rd.  I e-mailed her a week later asking what was up and she said she'd re-send them.  She didn't.  They are digital photos and I don't see what the big deal is.

I want to warn people on MM to watch out for this photographer but I don't know how to go about doing this.  Obviously, I'm not mentioning her name, but I would very much like to.

Any suggestions?

#1 - Always look at the quality of the work before you commit to any shoot.
#2 – Change the tone of your MM home page, it sounds like you just want to have fun and are not serious about modeling, may give the wrong idea.
#3 – I shot a fashion test in Miami & sent the model the link within a day of shooting. 2 months later I get an email from the model saying they never got any images. Thinking that I had just spaced out I apologized and re-sent the link. 3 months later I get another email saying that he really needs the photos. At this point I call him & he says he never got the link. I sent it to him a third time and called the next day. Still no email from me. So I asked him if he had another email address, which he did. I sent him the link and he had his retouched images within 72 hours.

Email is not 100% so it is possible this “Photographer” has sent them to you. Although given the total unprofessionalism I would doubt it.

Steve Thornton
http://www.stevethornton.com/

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Hmmm... interesting.  I'm curious why you would say this.  Based on what the model
said there was no MUA but now we see there was one.  Things like she didn't
know the school but it seems she may have been there before or worked there.
I'm not taking sides because I really don't know but the no MUA when there was
one is a huge thing because if there was and Star has provided that information
and the model says there was no MUA, somebodies being untruthful.  There is
a old court saying.  Untruthful in one thing, untruthful in all.

Actually, I was in Star's corner... until I read Star's posts.
I just don't think she was very upfront and I don't think she (Star) should
have any expectations of the model helping with the sets.  I also don't think
the model is required to take care of the photog's wardrobe after a shoot. Plus,
if it's a college project, just say so.  It gives the model a much better idea of
what to expect when she arrives on the scene.  Leaving the model
to wander around with a wardrobe case in unfamiliar territory is not
the greatest way to treat your talent.  And finally, there's nothing worse than
trying to get what's owed you out of someone who is either unresponsive or
completely dismissive.

N3 Media wrote:
I don't think she (Star) should
have any expectations of the model helping with the sets.  I also don't think
the model is required to take care of the photog's wardrobe after a shoot.

In TFP it all about what you agree on beforehand

Everything I shoot is a college project,look at my avatar, if a model wishes to work with me based on my images than that is what they wish to work with me on.

Also I have a 6 page TFP letter I send to all models who want to work with me on that basis.

That letter states that the model is expected to help with break down. If she didn't want to than she shouldn't have agreed.

Just for the record, again, Sunny's entire involvement with set-up and break down involved putting up one c-stand, and getting a white background in place.

About wardrobe, if you are wearing someone elses clothes, like a velevet dress, and it was folded or hung up when you received it than you are responsible for putting it away, that is just plain decency.

The fact is, once again Sunny and I didn't click. She inspired me not at all. I chose not to work with her again. I tried on numerous occasions to get the images to her but she doesn't understand simple things like how much memory her e-mail account has or what a returned mailer damon is.

I tried and tried but she was very unprofessional and rude and she was taking up time that I could have spent on models who weren't like that.

To this day she denies there was a make-up artist present.

That is just plain strange,

Star

Star wrote:
The fact is, once again Sunny and I didn't click. She inspired me not at all. I chose not to work with her again.

No doubt.