Seattle Photo wrote:
a creative director is the head of the 'creative' at an agency or magazine. they are in charge of the art directors and such. usually they do not go on many shoots..unless they want to

Hit it right on the head.
~M~

Dawnie wrote:
This is the bossiest MUA ever.

Still an MUA, thats all.
If you have an art director or a creative director, you are getting paid.
I never never work with Divas ever. Get someone else for your next shoot.

Tim Baker wrote:
We will - depending on the shot - use a creative director to develop the set.  We also use a creative director (or often called a graphics artist) to touch up a shot or to do post production work (usually with Photoshop). Other times the creative director may help the model with the pose.  That's how we use the terms.

Cheers, Tim

a creative director is NOT a graphics artist....they may be skilled in it, but creative director is a pretty damn high ranking title.  like it is THE person in charge. i think you are thinking about an art director ...but you don;t give these people these titles..they work in them and are teh ones who hire you!

oldguysrule wrote:
creative director & TFP in the same sentence?

Causes you to feel faint doesn't it?

Tim Baker wrote:
We will - depending on the shot - use a creative director to develop the set.  We also use a creative director (or often called a graphics artist) to touch up a shot or to do post production work (usually with Photoshop). Other times the creative director may help the model with the pose.  That's how we use the terms.

Cheers, Tim

whoa

set designer for the set, production artist or designer or retoucher for the graphics work, art director (MAYBE) to help the model with the pose.

use terms the way you want, i suppose, but do know what they mean outside your circle as well.

Dawnie wrote:
So was she an art director if she brung the makeup and clothing?

No... she was the stylist (MUA and Wardrobe and maybe hair).  Now, it sounds like she also wants to be credited for the concept behind the shoot, etc... - still not a CD though.... Just cause you give yourself a label does not make it so... watch.  I am young handsome and have a rock hard six pack... nope.  still middle aged, below average, and more like a soft party ball....

Dawnie wrote:
Told me to put a black light behind the model. Black light? You mean a shadow? lol

That's got to be the funniest thing yet....

MHana wrote:
Big sigh.

Hey... I've almost caught up to you...

James Jackson wrote:
Creative director - *the* big cheese... the head honcho... the 400 lb. gorilla in the room...  Their duties include looking through the portfolios of *ALL* the creative people associated with a project to select the ones for the project that will develop a cohesive message and image.  They are further charged with creating that overall message and image and keeping the big picture in mind.  Also in line with their *big picture* duties they are typically in a position of supervision of *everyone* on a creative team including Art directors, photographers, makeup artists, stylists (both pre and on set), producers, and talent.  They also typically are in charge of getting million dollar shots on a five and dime budget.

Art director - *A* big cheese.  One of many under a creative director's supervision, tasked with micro managing every element of each shot to ensure it communicates a message and the photographer doesn't get lost in the la-la land of "Oh, let's be creative today".  The art director notices every minutia of every individual frame a photographer takes, whereas the creative director has to keep the big picture of what all the individual frames look like together in mind.  If only one art director is needed for a project, there typically will not be a creative director.  Creative directors organize and coordinate the ADs

Makeup artist - NOT AN ART DIRECTOR NOR A CREATIVE DIRECTOR.  Makeup artists have one job... to make sure the makeup follows the direction that the client/art director demands it follow.  S/he should have little to no input on the direction of the makeup unless they are asked to...and if the client asks the makeup artist to change the make up or do a specific style of makeup, it's not a discussion, it's a job.

Photographer - Can be an Art director too sometimes...because sometimes s/he *is* the client...or no AD was hired for a project.  Takes much more to be an AD/Photographer, and that's why the jobs are separated when budget allows.  ADs micro manage, and pay attention to detail... photographers get creative with what guidelines the AD gives them... Often the *only* one who will see every frame shot, because they will do a rough edit before sending to the AD... with trusted clients it's the AD that does the rough edit and the CD that does the final edit... either way the Makeup artist doesn't see jack shit other than what the photographer/ad/cd gives them.

As always, James, you exhibit far more patience than I.

oldguysrule wrote:

As always, James, you exhibit far more patience than I.

I just type fast.

Dawnie wrote:
So what about the RIGHT to see very image?

I want to be fair here but part of me feels anomosity b/c she handled herself in such a rude matter. Started a fight while the model was still nude.

Also did a number of things wrong during the shoot, like changing the music on the model b/c the MUA thought it was the music she could rock to. The model just looked at me and rolled her eyes.

Told me to put a black light behind the model. Black light? You mean a shadow?

Also her makeup ideas were basically copies from magazines and not her own.

We will always let the model determine if it's paid.  If for some other reason we shoot nudes or implied e.g. for a website or (haven't ever done this) or agency, the model must allow the creative director to be on the set.  Professional models will understand this concept. Cheers, Tim

Dawnie wrote:
Well, this was TFP. No money was involved and she chose to work with me again after she worked with me on another project involving another stylist. The thing is, she expects more than the first stylist and THAT stylist has a popularity to them.

She keeps telling me that photographers usually give her the images within 2 days but when I ask her to list these photographers, she didn't. Just the one I knew of and use to be my old teacher. I think she is trying to talk down to me b/c she knows my old teacher and she knows I am new to the biz.

Put everything in writing in advance. Send her a copy. State your terms (two weeks isn't unreasonable for complete or partial turn-around time).  Communicate everything in writing before the shot, even TFPs.  Some agencies/photogs/what ever may have a light load and can make this deadline.  Others who are busy, can't.  If the TFP model is going to be a professional, they understand this concept.

We have a component about TFPs on our website if you care to reference it.  We are going to ad a line about turn around time.

/tim

Tim Baker wrote:
We will - depending on the shot - use a creative director to develop the set.  We also use a creative director (or often called a graphics artist) to touch up a shot or to do post production work (usually with Photoshop). Other times the creative director may help the model with the pose.  That's how we use the terms.

Cheers, Tim

Huh? Creative director also called Graphics artist? Who ever told you that seriously misguided you, bless you heart.

Tim Baker wrote:
We have a component about TFPs on our website if you care to reference it.  We are going to ad a line about turn around time.

/tim

Tim... your advice is sound, and this isn't about the advice.

Could *we* stop *we*ing? It's driving *me* a wee bit batty!

Only one person can type on a keyboard at a time!

James Jackson wrote:
Tim... your advice is sound, and this isn't about the advice.

Could *we* stop *we*ing? It's driving *me* a wee bit batty!

Only one person can type on a keyboard at a time!

Thanks. I use we because we have more than one photographer/staff member. We're also a company, although I'm listed by name here.

Ciao, Tim

Edit: Actually at this moment, there are two of us working on images and a set design.

Jean-Philippe Martin wrote:
So you know that there was no creative director... does that answer your question?

Sure does

Dawnie wrote:
This isn't a model, its a MUA.

Same policies for an MUA. /tim

ganeshkarma wrote:

Huh? Creative director also called Graphics artist? Who ever told you that seriously misguided you, bless you heart.

I'm just saying what we will/do with different people. I don't care about the title as long as the job statement is clear. /tim

Tim Baker wrote:

I'm just saying what we will/do with different people. I don't care about the title as long as the job statement is clear. /tim

except that it matters. the whole point of words is to communicate. if everyone is talking a different language, then what?

oldguysrule wrote:

except that it matters. the whole point of words is to communicate. if everyone is talking a different language, then what?

Babel; the evidence is overwhelming.

oldguysrule wrote:
except that it matters. the whole point of words is to communicate. if everyone is talking a different language, then what?

I agree with you in theory. But we have an awesome graphics arts, model, and creative director (and learning photography) - all the same person.  She prefers the term 'Creative Director."  I have no problem with that, although she may spend 1/2 or more of her time being a graphic's artist.

/t

Edit: I'm on the crazy side with a vague MM sites advertising 'Stylist" services (Usually MUA), and then email they don't do hair or visa versa. 

That was my other point. Most of our basic policies are written in a semi-humorus style on or MM site.  We require in our confirmation reply that they have read the site, the model (or whom ever release (sent out by email) and agree to the policies.

We will not shoot until that is confirmed.