ART OF ARIANE wrote:
The only thing the US has over Europe is we have Hollywood. There is no Hollywood equivalent in Europe...the glitter and glamour of the silver screen are truly US. And Hurrel was one of America's treasures, for sure.

Spoken like a true American. You tell them girlfriend.

Gerry Hanan wrote:
Well I'm Irish (born in Dublin and emmigrated at 28) but I live in Texas so maybe one day I will be half good -

From Dublin? Wait ... ehem... what's the story mate?

James Tennery wrote:
Every country in europe definetly has it's own syle and it is a matter of taste. It would be interesting to throw South American photographers into the equation. I have seen some amazing stuff coming from down south. and no I am not Latino (Irish American actually)

Yes and to add to that Japan China Korea and Vietnam.  And no I'm NOT just talking fashion magazines.

James Tennery wrote:
Every country in europe definetly has it's own syle and it is a matter of taste. It would be interesting to throw South American photographers into the equation. I have seen some amazing stuff coming from down south. and no I am not Latino (Irish American actually)

There are other places that we don't know squat about. Asia, Africa. I'm sure they must have a couple of photographers there.

*edit* he beat me to it

KM von Seidl wrote:
I think a couple things are in play in regards to this site, one being that there is a greater percentage of beginning US photographers than Europeans here.  So I think that affects perception.

Secondly, arts education in the US is for shit.  For many US citizens their idea of art comes from thumbing through a well used copy of FHM or Stuff magazine.  I'm horrified at the level of ignorance most people in the US have in regards to art history, architecture, art techniques, etc about the only place where there is an awareness of art culture is via mass media airwaves, and that's commercialized music, TV and motion picture.

Lastly, despite claims to the contrary, I don't really think most people in the US respect people that think too differently from the herd.  It makes folks nervous.   So does looking beneath the obvious and the surface.  Nuances and subtlety is weak, the US is all about bold and brash.

All these aspects have an affect upon the way people see their world and thus their attempts to express it.

Well,

I reside in the Califronia bay area. The area is more European influence. There are alot of art museums here and the school that I'm attending is most definetly into the European art. As a matter of fact it is required by us art majors to take Art History classes.


While the European art is different, I'm not really impressed. Imo, there is alot of hype on the culture and history there. Leonardo and the others, big deal.

But when compared to American culture there is a big difference. I think that alot of it has to do with the roots of religion here in this country. This country is more like Northern Europe. A Prodestant country that ver the years controlled how things are viewed here. From sexual content that was taboo for many years and over in Europe isn't a big deal at all.

Now that the U.S. has gotten away from some of those things that are referred to as taboo, people have lost their minds too the point of superficial is the norm here. Sex sells. Sold different here than in the U.S.


Europe itself is a continent that is a borrower of alot of ideas from different parts of the world, paticularly Egypt. Greece and their knowldege and art origins are from Eygpt. The Moors actually brought Europe out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaisannce.

ART OF ARIANE wrote:
The only thing the US has over Europe is we have Hollywood. There is no Hollywood equivalent in Europe...the glitter and glamour of the silver screen are truly US. And Hurrel was one of America's treasures, for sure.

ART OF ARIANE wrote:
The only thing the US has over Europe is we have Hollywood. There is no Hollywood equivalent in Europe...the glitter and glamour of the silver screen are truly US. And Hurrel was one of America's treasures, for sure.

Hollywood is our problem not our benifit. That is what ruins our culture.
Hollywood tells girls you need to look like this, you need to have big boobs, you need
a divorce, you need a murder, you need to cheat, lie, steal.

This is the only country in the world (USA) that our life orbits around what TV.
TV sucks and nowhere in the world will you find them watching it each day then trying
to be like those seen on TV.

But again, dont believe me. If you have NEVER spent anytime ( more than a week or two) in a foriegn country you wont have a clue to what I am trying to discribe.

Hollywood is the problem. 

A woman was quoted in the newspaper back in the 1960's saying
" if you watch how many divorces Hollywood shows on TV, you would think everyone is getting a divorce".   

That was back in the 60's.
And now everyone is getting divorces.
1 out of every 2 marriages in the US end in divorce.
(no) thank you Hollywood

ART OF ARIANE wrote:
The only thing the US has over Europe is we have Hollywood. There is no Hollywood equivalent in Europe...the glitter and glamour of the silver screen are truly US. And Hurrel was one of America's treasures, for sure.

WORD!!!!

Noir is something that is truely American. Just like Jazz and to a certain extent Rock and Roll. Rap is totally American. These influences have infultrated photography and give it something that Erope can only try to emulate.

Not to mention Americans have a more "commercial" and "slick" view of things. Eropenas are more "arty"

Another worthless 2 cents...

-S

Anyutik69 wrote:
European photographers are better than American photographers.

Alfredo Torres wrote:
No question European Photographers are better than American sorry

Non, non, et non! We're not "better",..., we're simply different!

Don't forget that our experiences & the values which shaped them have too been different, same for the audience who looks at our work.

Having lived in France for years, now living in Texas, the agency work I create here (USA) is simply governed by different things; back in France I will shoot otherwise.

FML

FML-Photography wrote:
Having lived in France for years, now living in Texas, the agency work I create here (USA) is simply governed by different things; back in France I will shoot otherwise.

FML

Please explain.

Anyutik69 wrote:
Hate me if you dare, but I'm going to say it. (I couldn't find an old post about this, but tell me if there is.)


European photographers are better than American photographers.


Now, let me explain what I mean by better....
When I browse photographers here, the following is going through my mind:
"eh..... no.... wtf..... nice.... ok.... maybe if I was drunk (j/k).... what are they doing here?...... no..... no...... yeah, this one's cool!....... eh......"

And then I check out the European photographers, where the first one's good, and the next one's even better.

Their work has more intensity to it, it's a lot more visually grasping.  It also looks like there's a lot more thought process going on into making each image.  Yes, I am generalizing what is going on.

Of course, it must be taken into consideration that this site is based here, so it might not be as popular in the other hemisphere....  but have you seen European magazines??



Agree with me?  If so, why is this?

Disagree with me?  Go ahead, I'd love to hear your opinion as well!!


Take care all,
Anya

hi
on which site you checked the European Photographers, i would love to see that. I am French originally and moved here to SB. Take care

Alfredo Torres wrote:
No question European Photographers are better than American sorry..... Gueritos

Hi
It is because of the freedom that a European model or photographer can have, comparing to either pervercity or totally old fashion look that may appear here in US. There is less appreciation of the artistic work that a photographer may provide, and people here tend to judge artistic work so badly. There are other points i can point out when i am less tired then tonight.
Take care

Le Beck Photography wrote:
I met Elliott Erwitt when I lived in NYC! What a dry sense of humor!

I think the difference between Eurpoean and American photography in general is the Europeans have an edge and lack of inhibition in their work that is fueled by the relative freedom from Victorian prudishness over there.

If the general atmosphere here were to allow more free expression and edginess on the part of commercial artists and photographers. I'd bet you wouldn't see such a difference.

This is a very Interesting post, I believe that “Edge” comes from approaching photography or making a photograph as more of an artistic endeavor, rather than a factual document recording of a subject. I personally  seem to have far more European customers for my work, than in the States.

Euro Photographers are much tuned into finer energies & awareness of time, space & their subjects. More often than not...their work contains an aura of presence. I think the difference is the approach, one is more organic & the other more mechanical.. It's funny even now some 200+ years after the invention of photography, the language we use to evaluate it, is still extremely meager. With that said it still seems parasitical, on the vocabulary of painting.    

Have you considered it’s the cultural distances in both space & time,  that you’re fascinated by?

Marie Spring wrote:

Hi
It is because of the freedom that a European model or photographer can have, comparing to either pervercity or totally old fashion look that may appear here in US. There is less appreciation of the artistic work that a photographer may provide, and people here tend to judge artistic work so badly. There are other points i can point out when i am less tired then tonight.
Take care

Hello Marie Spring,

You're absolutely right!~*
Imagine if Irene Ionesco made her photographs in the states, the hysterical would either burn her at the state, or lock her up in their mindless ignorant fears.
-Bearz

SimonL wrote:
Art education in the state system is also crap. It's only the few that get to study it at university, certainly here in the UK..

---

I'm not entirely convinced that we're 'better'..we may do things a different way. We may also have a more liberal society, which allows us to be 'Edgy', and push our boundaries a little further than you. It's something I try to acheive with each shoot.

Here's an observation... Europeans tend to understand some underlying image, and you might describe that as the hidden fantasy or message behind the picture, out of a long and widely understood tradition of concealed meaning in art. The understanding of that extends even to the non-artistic European viewer. Culturally Europeans, artist and non-artist, are exposed to that from childhood in may forms. They see, and more importantly understand, the distinction between a kiss on the cheek and on the mouth, or, on the hand or on the breast; or the placement of a hand on one breast or both... or neither; the positioning of objects within the frame to conceal or reveal and often in specific ways - buttoned up versus partially buttoned up versus unbuttoned; turning the model this way or that, gazing up or down, left or right, looking into the foreground or the distance, and where there is a specific historical meaning in each of those subtle elements and movements. There are even visual jokes to be played out... arising from various cultural and artistic traditions in each country.

Americans, on the other hand, both artist and viewer, and without that traditional understanding of those hidden meanings, tend to be just too literal... and compared to the Europeans, when they try to imitate it, get it wrong more times than not.

Thus European work may be, but isn't always, appreciated in the US but American work is not consistently, if at all, appreciated in Europe... and a lot of times not even in the US. What it amounts to is, say, a picture of a naked Eve in The Garden of Eden... with the right model for the part and in Europe it makes a difference if Eve is just reaching for the apple; in the act of plucking the fruit from the tree under the gaze of the snake; holding and contemplating it; or offering it to someone in or out of frame [maybe the viewer]. Remember the hidden meaning? It is the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". So exactly what is our Eve up to in each variation? In America it is just, euuuu, a naked picture - quick Harry take the children outside... and often, it might be worse yet - and the American viewer correct in that case, if it was a work done by an American where the first woman ever, God's own creation, is photographed with plastic tits and maybe even a bikini wax... if they dare do it nude in the first place.

Art Appreciation for Americans 101 = everything is not always as it seems... or should it be.

Studio36

modaphoto wrote:
If you have been to Europe it will change your idea of beauty. So asking on here you might not get a even amount of people that truly understand.

I thought I knew beauty, being born and raised in Malibu beach and So cal, I thought I knew beauty till I moved to Europe.

So I totaly agree with you.

We live in a cosmetic culture. Padding and make up.  Europe is first natural beauty.

The photographers, models are miles ahead of the typical Maxim FHM generic stuff
from the states. Our stuff all looks the same. Model with tons of make up, fake boobs, posing.
Right on the money!
Your post is refreshing. I find that most all major high fashion is done by European
photographers. And the american photographers who shoot it live in New York and spend several weeks/months in Europe.

If you have never been to Europe, dont go thru this life without having gone there
atleast once. You will fall in love with all of it.