Model
RDawkins
Posts: 4532
Breckenridge, Colorado, US
You know, Picasso once said he only painted things blue.
"Dabbling" doesn't an artist make. Whatever your style, you have to grow within it, make it your own, find your own voice in the image. Focus.
Photographer
Rebekah Dementia
Posts: 2
Griffith, Indiana, US
A lot of the time it can be sold off as art just like any other type of photography. A friend of mine has been working on a calander that I personally can not wait to get my hands on, and I have been known to purchase prints for my home.
Photographer
Mr-Kato
Posts: 152
I would hazzard a totally uninformed guess that fetish photography stemmed from comic book superhero(en)/Supervillian images (I know that this is getting a bit off topic) and to some degree Irving Klaw's work ( which may have sparked the gothic genre- again just an uninformed observation) That since the 1950's there has been a sharp rise of alt. fashion and phototraphy. Images in print (comic books) brought to light the fantasticly skin tight wild outfits limited only by the imagination and colors of printed material, it was in the 50's when nylon and other symthetic materials saw the light of day. The relation of comic book violence and 'fetishy' outfits contained within, make both guilty by association. Batman/woman probably helped spark the darker 'goth' look. I have only a passing interest in older comic books, but some of the stuff that is on the shelves today reflect more of what is being photographed and lived out in real life as goth and fetish and is reflected in fashion. I love the goth look for the many contrasting colors and textures and how it is so personalized to each person wear it. Fetish to a varying degree but probably due to the higher cost of outfits and accessories etc, is somewhat limiting to get started in. I have looked for different outfit for various shoots I want to do, but fetish is pricey, so I have to rely on what the model owns and fits her, fetish clothing tends to look crappy if it does not fit perfectly on whoever is wearing it, small/med/large does not cut it, for best astetic appeal, it almost always needs a custom fit. This is not to take away from the time and effect and money put into gothic looks, I do realize gothic outfits can cost a lot as well, but generally speaking, they mix and match better than say a fetish maid outfit is hard to morph into much more than one or two other looks. Also the goth look is more day to day wear than all latex or leather outfits. Maybe this is just because it grew faster and was adopted more readily by younger people. Now having opened this can of worms, I like both looks about the same and how they can blend together with each person's self expression, and photographing each or anykind of fashion look, one will probably do better work (as a model or photographer or fashion designer) is they have a primal (for lack of a better term) urge in what they are doing. If nude work is your thing, more power to ya, doesn't do a thing for me, its all about the look, the attitude projected at first glance, once the clothes are off, ya seen one boob, ya seen em all. kumi wrote:
....snip....
oh, and as far as 'dark, erotic, and violent'
when i do fetish work, i wouldnt describe it as any of those except for erotic - sometimes. i dont like dark. and violent, well, i am that at times, but not when i'm doing fetish work. i save violent for people in bars and clubs that irritate me.
:-D I will keep this in mind to try not to irritate you....much :-P
Photographer
Rebekah Dementia
Posts: 2
Griffith, Indiana, US
And the goth subculture was a spin off of the punk movement. Though you know... the first real goth club was called the batcave ::dies laughing:: So... you may have a point? I haven't a clue which came first, the goth bat, or the batman.
Photographer
Mr-Kato
Posts: 152
Rebekah Dementia wrote:
And the goth subculture was a spin off of the punk movement. Though you know... the first real goth club was called the batcave ::dies laughing:: So... you may have a point? I haven't a clue which came first, the goth bat, or the batman. You're shiettin me!, really?, the batcave!?, whodathunk  kinda makes sense though.
Model
Shanna
Posts: 78
Weatherford, Oklahoma, US
Its just hot, nobody wants boring teddy bears and pink backgrounds anymore
we want tight latex and and 8 inch heels haha its just something that appeals to basicly everyone instead of just half the population
Photographer
Dr Molly Black
Posts: 663
Cleveland, Ohio, US
Having been a part of both the gothic and the rave culture for the past 20 years (my 20th high school reunion is this August, *meep!*) I consider myself a "Graver" and I think that there are a lot of reasons why people like to both model and photograph it. I started modeling it back in '92 and I shoot a bit of it now.
I find the challenge is NOT to do the typical white and black, but to do a really interesting blend of things and colors. Goth also has the "gore" and "anime" element to it.
Anyway, there's many reasons and I think it's a lot of fun. Though if you look through my portfolio right now you will not see many goth or graver images.
Perhaps I need to fix that! :-)
-- Molly
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Dr Molly Black wrote:
Having been a part of both the gothic and the rave culture for the past 20 years (my 20th high school reunion is this August, *meep!*) I consider myself a "Graver" and I think that there are a lot of reasons why people like to both model and photograph it. I started modeling it back in '92 and I shoot a bit of it now.
I find the challenge is NOT to do the typical white and black, but to do a really interesting blend of things and colors. Goth also has the "gore" and "anime" element to it.
Anyway, there's many reasons and I think it's a lot of fun. Though if you look through my portfolio right now you will not see many goth or graver images.
Perhaps I need to fix that! :-)
-- Molly LOL
I havent heard to term "Graver" in a long time.
Model
Aleta Pardalis
Posts: 372
Oceanside, New York, US
Since I'm into costuming, victorian era clothing and vintage looks. Most of my pictures do fall into that style. oh, and I seem to fall into the whole romantigoth, elder goth, corporate goth, type thing  I wouldn't mind doing commercial work but with my figure it's probably not going to happen & I'm really just not a FHM, Maxim type of girl.
Model
Josie Nutter
Posts: 5865
Seattle, Washington, US
Is this as popular as it seems to me or is it limited to just a few? Not THIS thread again... :p
Before I get started, just FYI-- "goth" does NOT equal "fetish". The fetish scene is COMPLETELY different and COMPLETELY separate.
And what is that market? You get paid to shoot Gothic styles? There are a few magazines that cater to the subculture-- Gothic Beauty being the most visible. Almost NONE of these magazines pay. I personally know ONE photographer (whose work is generally universally considered amazing among goths and non-goths alike) who gets paid for his submissions. For the rest of us, we're supposed to be happy with the "exposure". Personally, I don't mind. Tearsheets are tearsheets.
The goth "market" is pretty much limited to hobbyists. Everyone shoots with everyone for fun, mostly. Models, photographers, fashion designers. Most of what I've seen is fairly innocent and non-nude, but I'm sure some photographers pay for gothic-themed nudes. I don't do that sort of thing so I'm not really the one to ask.
The fetish market, on the other hand, is much more lucrative, but is still somewhat small-- a for-members-by-members global community sort of thing. It also involves a lot more sexually explicit stuff. Porn sells, ya know. Even then, I only [personally] know of two models who make a decent fulltime living doing fetish stuff. Live stage performances (usually blood play or rope bondage) and photoshoots. Some fetish models have actual careers as professional doms, and the modelling is just something they do on the side to get photos for their ad sites. I don't think fetish magazines (Marquis, Secret, etc) pay for very many submissions, either.
Clubs like to use gothy or fetishy photos for their fliers, but photographers rarely get paid for them without hassle; usually club promoters just grab something off the internet and copyright rules be damned.
There is a lot of trade that goes on. Designers line up models and clothing for photographers, photographers line up models for stylists (or vice versa), models sometimes get free clothing in exchange for shoots or fashion shows. There is definitely more money in the fetish scene, but it is way more of a lifestyle thing than a commercial one for most people involved.
The only real pay is in adult-oriented paysites (either devoted to a single model, or to many like Gothic Sluts, SG, etc), for the most part.
That's why I choose to make this a hobby. I don't get nekky, and am not the right height or size for the mainstream stuff I'd like to do. Most modelling is boring as HELL (especially promo crap), which is why I like to do arsty, creative stuff for fun. Alternative stuff is just a lot more visually interesting to me.
Oh, and for the people confusing goth with fetish, here's some more info: http://www.goth.net/goth.html
...and by using the forum Search function (box found at the bottom of the main forum page), you can find all kinds of related threads where I'm sure all of this has been hashed out before.
I dont get Goth! (86 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=36880
Goth Modeling (48 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=49603
goth (41 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=33689
What are Goth and Alternative models? (72 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=29813
Why so many Alternative/Gothic models? (203 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=13613
Goth for Dummies (104 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=17596
is goth a turn off??? (42 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=6424
Any work for "alternative" models? (20 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=38315
Why so many alternative models these days? (118 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=17335
Photographer
Bjorn Lumiere
Posts: 816
Asheville, North Carolina, US
For me Iâm only interested in exploring anachronistic landscapes, where one style or era meshes seamlessly with another. Goth, Horror, Edwardian, etc are all genres, that I love to inter mix & then allow enough space for something enchanting to occur. I approach all photo shoots as if theyâre stills from motion pictures.
Iâm thankful & grateful at this point in my career, that I have the opportunity to explore whatever I choose to these days. Work & create for yourself not the prevailing market.
Model
Wednesday Mourning
Posts: 284
Malmö, Skåne, Sweden
Josie Nutter wrote:
Is this as popular as it seems to me or is it limited to just a few? Not THIS thread again... :p
Before I get started, just FYI-- "goth" does NOT equal "fetish". The fetish scene is COMPLETELY different and COMPLETELY separate.
There are a few magazines that cater to the subculture-- Gothic Beauty being the most visible. Almost NONE of these magazines pay. I personally know ONE photographer (whose work is generally universally considered amazing among goths and non-goths alike) who gets paid for his submissions. For the rest of us, we're supposed to be happy with the "exposure". Personally, I don't mind. Tearsheets are tearsheets.
The goth "market" is pretty much limited to hobbyists. Everyone shoots with everyone for fun, mostly. Models, photographers, fashion designers. Most of what I've seen is fairly innocent and non-nude, but I'm sure some photographers pay for gothic-themed nudes. I don't do that sort of thing so I'm not really the one to ask.
The fetish market, on the other hand, is much more lucrative, but is still somewhat small-- a for-members-by-members global community sort of thing. It also involves a lot more sexually explicit stuff. Porn sells, ya know. Even then, I only [personally] know of two models who make a decent fulltime living doing fetish stuff. Live stage performances (usually blood play or rope bondage) and photoshoots. Some fetish models have actual careers as professional doms, and the modelling is just something they do on the side to get photos for their ad sites. I don't think fetish magazines (Marquis, Secret, etc) pay for very many submissions, either.
Clubs like to use gothy or fetishy photos for their fliers, but photographers rarely get paid for them without hassle; usually club promoters just grab something off the internet and copyright rules be damned.
There is a lot of trade that goes on. Designers line up models and clothing for photographers, photographers line up models for stylists (or vice versa), models sometimes get free clothing in exchange for shoots or fashion shows. There is definitely more money in the fetish scene, but it is way more of a lifestyle thing than a commercial one for most people involved.
The only real pay is in adult-oriented paysites (either devoted to a single model, or to many like Gothic Sluts, SG, etc), for the most part.
That's why I choose to make this a hobby. I don't get nekky, and am not the right height or size for the mainstream stuff I'd like to do. Most modelling is boring as HELL (especially promo crap), which is why I like to do arsty, creative stuff for fun. Alternative stuff is just a lot more visually interesting to me.
Oh, and for the people confusing goth with fetish, here's some more info: http://www.goth.net/goth.html
...and by using the forum Search function (box found at the bottom of the main forum page), you can find all kinds of related threads where I'm sure all of this has been hashed out before.
I dont get Goth! (86 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=36880
Goth Modeling (48 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=49603
goth (41 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=33689
What are Goth and Alternative models? (72 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=29813
Why so many Alternative/Gothic models? (203 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=13613
Goth for Dummies (104 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=17596
is goth a turn off??? (42 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=6424
Any work for "alternative" models? (20 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=38315
Why so many alternative models these days? (118 posts)
https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=17335 Extremely well said as usual!
here here!
Photographer
Jeff Cohn
Posts: 3850
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
This one kinda hits close to home. I have been working with a large number of alternative/goth/punk models for the duration of my career and I've seen the problems arise with getting paid shoots, etc etc.
The problem is that the fashion designers (clients) don't tend to have a lot of income because even though the market exists, the sales are small due to everything being very DIY. the magazines exist but for the most part are not really taking any chances or experimenting with new unknown designers or even models really, same faces and companies over and over leads to a stagnant scene.
Faced with this dilemna I decided the best way to change the way the world works is to start my own magazine. "Bright Young Things" is in pre-production for its first online issue, print will follow within the next few months. Rather than sit around and wait for the world of fashion or goth to change, im going to just do my part to change them both.
Jeff Cohn
X-pose.net
Glampunk.com (Bright young things magazine)
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I wouldn't mind doing commercial work but with my figure it's probably not going to happen & I'm really just not a FHM, Maxim type of girl.
kinda makes sense though.