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Should a paid model get free images?
Hello everyone, My name is Danny and I recently got on to MM and have been contacting models for TFCD and paid sessions. My question is if a model turns down a TFCD offer but accepts a paid offer is it reasonable for the model to exspect images as well without me charging for my services? Should the model not respect my time, services and product as valuable also? I am very good at what I do and am very generous. I'm not looking to get something for nothing, but when I am paying how far in being generous should I be? Models, photographers, stylists and make-up artists please give me some feed back. Thanks May 18 06 12:59 pm Link Another subject that has been beaten to death lol. Paid models should NEVER expect images, although some generous photographers will provide them. May 18 06 01:02 pm Link Thanks Claire May 18 06 01:04 pm Link And usually the people who have paid me and offered images are people who shot images I don't need. If I absolutely am dying for an image I offer to pay for it or have the cost taken out of my pay. May 18 06 01:05 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: Well, everything is negotiable, but if it's a non-commercial shoot, I wouldn't feel obligated to give prints, although I often might because I'm a nice guy. On the other hand, if it it commericial work that generates tearsheets, I always try to get enough extra copies from the client for the model, MUA, etc. Again, I don't promise it, because what the client coughs up is out of my control, but I always try. May 18 06 01:07 pm Link It is all in what you negotiate. If you think that you may be paying below 'market value' (please don't ask me what that is) then a couple of images may be included in the compensation package. However this is only if it was discussed BEFORE the shoot.. no model should expect the images if it was not agreed upon by both parties before the shoot. Also, if you are just starting out and you are proud of some of the images it wouldn't hurt to give the model a couple to use in her portfolio. Advertising you just can't pay for. ;o) May 18 06 01:07 pm Link Amen!! A model who is paid NEVER gets the images from the shoot unless it's negotiated into the price. Model who ask for the photos "after" the shoot are usually quoted twice the amount they were paid for the shoot (at least by me and most of the people I have worked with). May 18 06 01:10 pm Link It shouldn't be an obligation. It should be a nice gesture at the paying party's discretion. May 18 06 01:10 pm Link I usually make the offer of images to the model if he/she wants them and if it's not a commercial shoot where I'm restricted in the use of the images. Why not? May 18 06 01:11 pm Link This is the situation. I thought that when the model turned down the TFCD offer that meant they didn't need my style of images. When I offered to pay and we discussed the shoot the model now like the images that I am wanting to shoot and wants them in their book. May 18 06 01:11 pm Link In paid shoots, the model should not expect the images, however most photographers will provide one or two web images to add to the models portfolio as it provides for good marketing for both. As for prints and/or CD's....not to be expected, but always a bonus if they offer it. Sometimes, a model and photographer can negotiate a reduced rate in exchange for some of the files. May 18 06 01:12 pm Link If I don't feel like the photos will benifit me, I won't expect photos. If I want any of the photos I will work something out with the photographer where I'll take a certain ammount out of the full pay to cover the images. But as far as free images... its up to the photographer if he wants to be nice or not. It should always be negotiated before the shoot takes place so theres no questions/debates afterwards. ~!*Kemara*!~ May 18 06 01:13 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: Sounds like you got a greedy gal on your hands. Explain to her that she has some options: May 18 06 01:14 pm Link Unless it's an editorial tear, then no. However I will always send 2 images to the agency I worked with to stay on their contact list. Those 'lil bastards can be pretty unambiguous about who's on their list  May 18 06 01:16 pm Link I see you're point. Under that circumstance I probably wouldn't give the images away. If he/she wants them and turned down TFP/CD then a fair compensation makes sense. May 18 06 01:17 pm Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: Please clone yourself ;-) May 18 06 01:18 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: "Reasonable" is a purely subjective term-ask 1001 people, you'll likely get 999 different definitions (the other two are off for pizza). May 18 06 01:19 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: I'd tell her she can buy the prints she wants at some reasonable price.. say $15/print. May 18 06 01:20 pm Link Claire Elizabeth wrote: or: May 18 06 01:21 pm Link Thanks to all of you, I appreciate all your input. This isn't a paying job for me and I will be renting some props, so my costs are there. I don't want to be unfair, because I am a nice guy too, sometimes too nice, so I probably will give some images to the model. Yes, that is a great form of advertising. May 18 06 01:21 pm Link I'll be damned if I'm going to pay someone to give them pictures. Some 'models' think the money is only suposed to flow in their direction. May 18 06 01:22 pm Link Should/shouldn't.. People are so fussy over defining everything.. Just get the terms out there and upfront.. If you're concerned over it.. Say you're planning a shoot and plan to offer 200 for a day.. (just throwing out a number..) If you refuse to give out any kind of images state this up front.. If you don't mind giving out images, but value your own work.. Stare their options are 200 for a days work, or 100 + images.. (or 150 or a cup of coffee and a photo album.. The amount isn't the issue).. Point is get your terms agreed to up front.. Don't go beyond what you're comfortable with and maybe don't worry quite so much about what people who have nothing to do with your shoot say are or aren't "the rules".. .... And I'm not picking on the OP.. Just seen a lot of threads on should I, shouldn't I.. Do I have what it takes.. Blah blah.. I figure if you're a pro or happy with what you do, you already know the answer, and if you don't the opinions of the folks here aren't likely to change your status.. May 18 06 01:23 pm Link If your paying then then that is it. If you want to give her an finished image later that is up to you. If you agree to some money and some images then that is fiine also. This has all been discussed before, but of course it continues to come back up. May 18 06 01:28 pm Link WG Rowland wrote: Thanks, May 18 06 01:29 pm Link I've always let the working relationship be my guide on after-the-shoot exchanges. If the model work is special, and I got what I think is great value, then I'm a happy "customer" and I'm happy to provide a bonus. Professionals who bring and give something extra of their talent are precious. Showing appreciation helps to establish a relationship of professional courtesies. Such give-and-take is a worthwhile investment in the future, and in the reputations of both the professionals involved. If it's all about money all the time, aesthetics get left at the door. May 18 06 01:46 pm Link Len Cook Photographer wrote: i agree completely May 18 06 01:59 pm Link No. May 18 06 02:02 pm Link The reason they call them "tear sheets" is because the model has already been compensated for the image; if he/she wants a copy of the image, they have to tear them out of the magazine! May 18 06 02:13 pm Link T H Taylor wrote: Which is why when we get around to shooting....I refuse to receive any monies from you. May 18 06 02:13 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: Here's hoping you were being sarcastic and writing me off as a dolt.. Because if people are going to start taking my opinions seriously, I'm going to have to stop giving them.. May 18 06 02:26 pm Link No a model that's getting paid is getting paid to model. The compensation is the money. To me if model asks for images and money then they are acting unprofessionally. If a model needs images then they are not in a position to be absolute in their demands for compensation and need to account for the potential worth of the images. I generally shoot TFP most of the time and usually with newer models trying to build their portfolios. If I do pay a model one or more of the following conditions have to be met: 1. I have a client that can pay both of us for the shoot 2. The model is skilled and has a look that I need to execute the shoot (no taking your clothes off is not a skill) 3. I need exclusivity over the images as I intend to sell the images Now if the shoot went well and there are some images that I can afford to live without the exclusivity then I will offer images to the model as a show of appreciation. I might add that you shouldnât feel punked into giving images to every model that you pay (âif he wants to be nice or notâ?â¦huh? What does this have to do with being nice?). I do think that itâs a good thing to let the model know that you appreciated her help with the shoot but this does not necessarily have to take the form of giving out your images (a nice bottle of wine, a dinner, or a simple thank you note for example). Now to add nuance to the argument, it may be in your favor to give a model images especially if it will add prestige to you as a photographer. For example, I recently did a paid shoot with Tia Hunter. Now I didn't have to give her a single image from the shoot but I let her have her pick of a few. Why? Because having my images on her page is great exposure; I'm already getting several e-mails from model in DC, Philly and NY models about working together TFP even though several state on their profile that they are pay only. In other words I'm getting an excellent return on investment and access to better and more skilled models well beyond what I paid Tia. Sometimes you have to think more long term than short term. May 18 06 03:00 pm Link WG can be a bit self-deprecating and is a little new , but I think he has a good view on how to approach things and agree with what he said. Too many people expect others to TELL them how things SHOULD be done, not just in how to work with models, but how to charge, how to sell, what equipment to buy, how to light etc. etc. etc. There's nothing wrong with asking for opinions, but realize that's all they are - individual opinions. Photography is very much an individual art/craft (however you approach it) and everyone has their own ways of doing things. When you start working with others (clients, art directors, models etc.) it can get a little tricky, but there still is no one way to handle it. Learn from others but ultimately you must decide for yourself what works best for you. The only consistent "rule" IMO is be true to yourself and, when working with others, find others who are on the "same page" as you by making sure everything is clear and agreed upon up front. May 18 06 03:01 pm Link Ive been modeling for over a year. I didnt know about people asking for photos and I didnt hear anyone ask or offer. I thought you just went to the place and did the job and took the money. Its only now Ive joined MM that I read that some models want photos from the shoots. I might try asking cos I need some for my port. May 18 06 03:58 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: Not necessarily! It Depends with the relationship you have with him/her.From my experience, if I did an editorial shoot, I would go and buy magazine, or ask the client.. In case of a photographer, I usually ask for the ones he chose to promote himself(his business), Yes you should charge them. May 18 06 04:08 pm Link Tom Sullivan wrote: Well,Of course you should ask for the photos to put in your book, how are you going to get more jobs?! some clients want to see how much you have done, and so you dont always look like a beginner, and therefore ruining chances of getting more work! but then you didnt know, so yeah but be prepared to pay the client(photographer) especially if they had paid you for the job.its only fair to them, unless they dont mind, giving for free! May 18 06 04:12 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: I don't think the model should EXPECT them. If the model was extraordinary I think it would be nicer to share..but not required. May 18 06 04:15 pm Link If the pay isn't sufficient enough to be worth the time, then yes the model should get some images as well. Meaning.... Scenario A) I'll pay you $50 for the shoot. This may barely cover gas. (give him/her some images.) Scenario B) I'll pay you $50 an hour. (No images should be mandatory...not unless you feel like it) May 18 06 04:18 pm Link Lapis wrote: Stop your chattin' and get to battin'! May 18 06 04:27 pm Link The Picture Place wrote: Ignore the differences between cash and photos. The way you and everyone should look at this is as compensation. If they want pay AND photos. Asking for $150+photos or $1,000 cash only are the same thing, compensation. It is up to two the parties involved to negotiate. May 18 06 04:34 pm Link This is the situation. I thought that when the model turned down the TFCD offer that meant they didn't need my style of images. When I offered to pay and we discussed the shoot the model now like the images that I am wanting to shoot and wants them in their book. That does not necessarily mean she did not need your images or that she was greedy. Some models do this work because they need the money. I accept very few TFCD shoots not because i dont need images but because I get paid to model that is what i do. You always need more images. I always negotiate images into my paid shoots. If i get paid for the shoot and i get no images then all i got was money and i might as well get another job just for that. What have i got to show in my port then. this is what i dont understand. If u pay a model for images why wouldnt u want her to have some to show in her port to advertise you as a photographer and to show what u can do? please explain that to me. May 18 06 04:35 pm Link |
