theda wrote:
Actually, I'm just T. Not much in the way of A.  And while I may appear to be starving, I'm actually doing okay with my sole pissed-off expression. Okay, fine, I can do bored, too. Bored and pissed. I'm a veritable Zoolander!

Are you sure?  Theda - hed = T & A

Scott Evans wrote:
It is very difficult to find models that actually understand the "art" of modeling.  I see so many "dead faced" models out there and they all have one thing in common!  They all have T & A and nothing else!

Show me an average model that can speak with her eyes and face I will show you an employable model.  Show me a rocket hot model that could not make a facial expression other than the coveted "pissed off" look and I will show you a starving model!

Show me a model with T & A,  AND the ability to show honest to God facial expressions, convey mood and intent with her or his eyes,,I will show you a SUPER MODEL!

Models......learn you craft!  Models....take the time to research and study.  In short; to be successful DO WHAT THE SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE DO!

I have taken a half of a glass of ice water and poured on a nude model to get some expressions.  It worked, and the models was laughing when it was all over.

It's not all the models fault.

Scott Evans wrote:
Theda,,,,LOL,,,,love the zoolander reference!  Hey, I think that learning is a ever evolving process and I as a photographer learn something new each time I shoot!  I LOVE working with models and I see SOOOOO many with such potential and drive but do not do the little things to move ahead of the pack!  Little things like books, watching ANTM,,,etc,. 

I am butt ugly that is why I am a photographer LOL!

Can we really consider watching ANTM a step in the right direction? Reality TV has very little to do with reality... I'm not sure if books are particularly useful either, as there are so many niches in modeling. I don't think it would do much good for me to read Trya Banks' ghost-written story of rising to the top of the Paris fashion world as a 12-foot-tall Afro-American teen.  I don't think anyone has written a book about how to being a 27-year-old art/fetish model in NYC when you really don't like dealing with people very much.

theda wrote:
Can we really consider watching ANTM a step in the right direction? Reality TV has very little to do with reality... I'm not sure if books are particularly usefull either, as there are so many niches in modeling. I don't think it would doo much good for me to read Trya Banks' ghost-written story of rising to the top of the Paris fashion world as a 12 foot tall Afro-American teen.  I don't think anyone has written a book about how to being a 27-year-old art/fetish model in NYC when you really don't like dealing with people very much.

Not the silly "drama" part of the show, but the advice giving part of the show.  Say what you will about Tyra Banks, she is successful and if I were modeling I would listen to what the professionals on that show had to say.  I cannot stand that show from a entertainment aspect, but I have picked up a thing or 2 from it.  I cannot just show up with a camea and call myself a photographer, l;ike so many photogs do LOL

Marvin Dockery wrote:
I have taken a half of a glass of ice water and poured on a nude model to get some expressions.  It worked, and the models was laughing when it was all over.

I'd laff too, after I'd shoved your telephoto so far up your transverse colon that it came out your ear. That always cracks me up!

GWC!

Alexandria M. wrote:
ok, but i've shot with photogs that didnt know crap about lighting and angles. give me a photographer that has lighting but bad angles and i'll show you.... it goes both ways!!! if the pose and face are on target, and the angle is wrong, then the photo sucks. either way....

Yup it can definatly go both ways.

theda wrote:
Actually, I'm just T. Not much in the way of A.  And while I may appear to be starving, I'm actually doing okay with my sole pissed-off expression. Okay, fine, I can do bored, too. Bored and pissed. I'm a veritable Zoolander!

That's a look most photographers have mastered as well, just done holding a camera...  LOL

GWC wrote:

I'd laff too, after I'd shoved your telephoto so far up your transverse colon that it came out your ear. That always cracks me up!

GWC!

it's a creative, round about, back door sort of technique, but GWC (Guy With Colon) is nothing if not creative...

Christina Janeiro wrote:
As a model trying to learn ...

What is T & A and what is GWC?

Go ahead. Laugh. I could have instead looked like an idiot trying to make it seemed like I knew what I was talking about. =P

T&A is not exactly a modeling term. Think about it. You'll figure it out.

GWC=Guy With Cocaine, I think

theda wrote:
Actually, I'm just T. Not much in the way of A.  And while I may appear to be starving, I'm actually doing okay with my sole pissed-off expression. Okay, fine, I can do bored, too. Bored and pissed. I'm a veritable Zoolander!

To be fair, in the "Okay, so maybe the Navy WAS like this..." shot, you actually appear casually interested in something...

Nick Ryder wrote:
How many "guys with cameras"  pics have we seen and they stick a model next to a tree and take a random shot, then claim to be photographers?

The same with models, the have a snap shot and it's taken in their living room standing next to a Christmas tree, very amateur and then "Yes, yes, I am a model, critique my port"  ...  I feel like saying, "no you're not and that's not a port, it's more of a Photo Album".

I think the real question is, out of all the member here, how many are actually in the game? It's easy enough to post a few pics and make some blanket statements...but, the bottom line, despite how much a person claims to be a model or a photographer, it's the industry that gets to make the determination.

The difference between a GWC (male or female) and a real "Pro Photographer" is simply time, experience and the ability to learn.  Every single "Pro" out there started out at some point as just a GWC.  Every single model, from an internet model working full time and making a nice living to supermodel Tyra Banks also started out in circumstances where the best shot in their portfolio was probably one of those Christmas tree shots.  There are some photographers with 20 years of experience still making the same basic mistakes in composition and lighting.  Ditto for models who never learn the basics of conveying mood, expression and communication with just a look.  What makes a "Pro" on either side of the camera is that willingness and ability to learn.  Nobody has a big impressive portfolio from day one, and everybody has a "day one."

MaryPetiteModel wrote:
Though I completely sympathize with the frustration in working with "unskilled" models, the world is filled with mediocrity.  I, too, wish more models would take the time to even flip through a few issues of a European Vogue, commercial catalog, etc. (learn by example).  But, it's the same in *every* industry...some are willing to work, and some prefer to coast.  The better models DO pay attention to the pros and emulate them.

Unfortunately, we can only change our *own* behavior.  The other guy/gal is responsible for their own success (or failure).

Seek out those who are "on your level" and try to work solely with them.  You'll save yourself an awful lot of aggravation (not to mention time and film) in the long run.

Seeking out professionals I agree with, the same rule apply to photographers.  My whole point in all of this was simply; there is more to modeling than just looking good.  If you want to excell, work at it.  The cost is realitively low to get material to be a good model.  This is in direct contrast to obtaining the material to be a good photographer, the costs are in the thousands.  Spen a little mony and more time learning your craft it will pay off in the end.

Scott Evans wrote:
[The cost is realitively low to get material to be a good model.  This is in direct contrast to obtaining the material to be a good photographer, the costs are in the thousands.  Spen a little mony and more time learning your craft it will pay off in the end.

I couldn't agree more.  Good point about the cost of equipment, as well.  We models can even trek on down to Barnes&Noble and do our research for free!

Well...some of us aren't above it.  Those Vogues are pricey :-).

ravens laughter wrote:
I think it might be a tad over presumptuous to say that a model who displays a flat or blank look is unlearned.

Fact is that the best commercial models have fostered and thus profited from a blank and absent look. Take a look at vogue or elle or Marie Claire and you'll see what I mean. Go to a fashion show and you'll see what I mean.

I've been wondering about this.  I look at these magazines, and I don't exactly see a range of expression.  Which makes sense, right?  It's not about the model as an individual, it's about whatever she's there to sell.

Sita Mae Edwards wrote:
I've been wondering about this.  I look at these magazines, and I don't exactly see a range of expression.  Which makes sense, right?  It's not about the model as an individual, it's about whatever she's there to sell.

This is true.  However, earning a healthy paycheck from looking morbidly indifferent is a luxury very few models actually get.  And there are certainly plenty of fashion editorials and ad campaigns that call for a host of other emotions.  Those obnoxiously enthusiastic Tommy Hilfiger models are a good example.  Michael Kors "Michael" ads always display joyous opulance.  And there's a marked difference between the projection of mutual attraction that the models in the classic fragrance ads show and the I-might-just-be-alive-but-I'm-not-quite-certain look that some of these models who are trying to make it show...

E L Fanucchi wrote:
Some dont even have good T & A.
But that can be forgiven and surgically modified.

But not having great attitude and doing the research
of proper pose can not be forgiven or modified.

E L

Exactly!  Photogrpahers are expected to know what they are doing behing the camera (not all do I admit) I feel the same standard should apply to the person in front of the camera.

Dawn Elle Ray wrote:
Okay so I totally understand you on that one...problem for me is that..no matter how the expression looks in person..when the picture comes out..it looks like they were all the same. I stand and practice in the mirror a lot and take pictures trying to do different things with my face and eyes..but nothing on camera. What would you suggest I do??

switch the side of the camera !

or change photographer