Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
You ever see some of those beauty pageants that mothers take their daughters to peform in??? Those girls look worse than prostitutes, because they don't even know how to walk or stand; you've got 13-year-olds wearing too much makeup, skin-tight outfits, and wearing high heels. It's kind of weird! I wonder if the mothers are living vicarious alternate existences through their kids, or what.

I was out for DEFCON, a computer hackers convention, in Vega$ when they were running a beauty pageant in the same hotel with 2,000 hackers. All these peirced and tattooed weird0s were watching the little girls and shaking their heads. It was kind of trippy. One of my hacker buddies went over to one of the mothers and asked:
  H: "Can I buy your daughter?"
Mom: "WHAT?!"
  H: "Yeah, can I buy your daughter? I mean, she's dressed up like she's for rent, what do you charge?!"

The mom went running out of the room to call for security and everyone laughed their a** off. I don't think mom got the point, though.

mjr.

Marcus, what you posted about those "child beauty pageants" is so true!  Those sort of events are horrible cases of PURE CHILD EXPLOITATION!   Sometimes I wonder if we should require a license for prospective parents?  LOL 


I was hired as a photographer for a beauty/model contest once ... the ugliness that went on backstage was so disgusting to me that I vowed never to shoot for another beauty contest ever again.  Friendships are fake, the judges are influenced by parents, and it gets abusive for those who are contestants.  Why do parents do such things?

I am interested in getting an association of models and photographers organized. It would be for the purpose of improving the image of models online.  There would be an age limit ... I think 16 might be a fair age to start posting modeling type images.  It seems Tyler thinks so too.  I would also get us benefits like health insurance because too many of us "freelancers" are uninsured.  There is much more to it, and I have been planning it for awhile now ... contact me if you are interested in learning more before I launch it officially.

Kiersten Weaver wrote:
Isn't that illegal!!!!!!  I swear that is sooo horrible and gross.  And you know that creepy old guys are looking at that.  They are wearing thongs and stuff like that and they have a better sexy look on their face then some of the professional models.  YUCK!

To answer you, "No, it's not illegal."  Be careful what you ask for in laws that govern us.  There are other ways of taking back the "Web" from those who use to it to exploit children.

Nihilus wrote:
Umm...something kinda fishy about the toplist site. All the individual webpages look done by the same person/group.

Well ... yes they are done by the same website producer.  It's a cookie cutter method of creating websites.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
As far as I know, child porn IS illegal through out the World

This is very true. However, the thing is, with different legal ages from country to country, what child porn is changes from country to country. For instance. Until a couple of years ago, it was perfectly legal in Germany for a girl the age of 16 to be in full on porn videos if she had a parents consent.

Jessica Jill wrote:
Those poor little kids are being exposed in bikini's all over the internet

And at your local town community pool, water theme parks, in their friends back yard pools, the beach......

Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
You ever see some of those beauty pageants that mothers take their daughters to peform in???
  H: "Can I buy your daughter?"
Mom: "WHAT?!"
  H: "Yeah, can I buy your daughter? I mean, she's dressed up like she's for rent, what do you charge?!"

The mom went running out of the room to call for security and everyone laughed their a** off. I don't think mom got the point, though.

mjr.

I once witnessed something similar but much worse. There was a guy in a motel in the hallway the girls all dolled up happened to walk down, this guy made a comment to some of the little pageant girls about how hot they looked in their bikinis. One of the mothers smiled and said thank you,then made her daughter say thank you for the *compliment*as well!

Star wrote:
I am just reporting it to Google in an effort to have google take it out of their search engine,

Star

also report webeweb.net, it is the shell company that hosts the site

If you search the net then you will find that this same Webe Web entity has been brought to court numourous times.  There is nothing illegal about it, so they get off the hook in every case. 

Let's create an association together if REAL Internet photographers and models?  I'm serious!  The 'net was overrun by the porn industry from the start, and it makes me angry that modeling on the 'net is associated with porn and child sites ... there should be standards that we can live be without making more laws that wont or cannot be enforced anyway.

Patrick Walberg wrote:
I would also get us benefits like health insurance because too many of us "freelancers" are uninsured.

Here come the rate hikes, on both sides of the coin.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

This is very true. However, the thing is, with different legal ages from country to country, what child porn is changes from country to country. For instance. Until a couple of years ago, it was perfectly legal in Germany for a girl the age of 16 to be in full on porn videos if she had a parents consent.

You are right, Ray ... it's very difficult to govern something when laws are not uniform from country to country.  I really don't want to see more laws passed ... when we can't enforce what is already on the books!  The Webe Web is a big business! They have money to fight with. 

Also something else we should be aware of is that sometimes the child is not so innocent.  How many of these girls are manipulating their parents because the parent lacks the backbone to BE THE PARENT?    Let's study this carefully before we start the "witch hunt!"

F-ing Nuts Benny wrote:
try this site to report, I already made one
http://asacp.org/report.php

Another way would be to do some research and pass it on to a bunch of senators and congress people. Here's some simple research for you.

Registrant:
   c/o CHILDSUPERMODELS.COM
   P.O. Box 821650
   Vancouver, WA 98682
   US

   Registrar: DOTSTER
   Domain Name: CHILDSUPERMODELS.COM
      Created on: 03-FEB-00
      Expires on: 03-FEB-07
      Last Updated on: 26-JAN-06

   Administrative, Technical Contact:
      [email protected]
      c/o CHILDSUPERMODELS.COM
      P.O. Box 821650
      Vancouver, WA 98682
      US
      +1.360-449-5933


If you look at one of the email addresses, it goes to webeweb.com.

Picking just a random site linked from there,

daisy-model.com

Registrant:
webe web corp
po box 480027
fort lauderdale, Florida 33348
United States
9545672922

So a little more checking shows webeweb.com has the same info as above.

While a few of these women could be of age, one specifically states she is 13 years old (http://www.megan-model.com).

Star wrote:
I just figure if it ain't illegal, we can at least get it off the top of the search engine results

google lists search results in order of how many hits they receive. the site with the most hits being on top.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
I once witnessed something similar but much worse. There was a guy in a motel in the hallway the girls all dolled up happened to walk down, this guy made a comment to some of the little pageant girls about how hot they looked in their bikinis.

You gotta figure the pedos are into/onto it. It's like all the pedos that they keep catching working for churches (teaching sunday school!) and in the boy/girl scouts. I'm like "DUH"? Isn't that kind of obvious?? It'd be like a vampire getting a job at a blood bank or a necrofiliac working at a morgue. Duh?

GWC!

Glamour Boulevard wrote:
Another thing I would like to address is someone earlier mentioning these little girl sites are based on greed. Duh. But on the other hand, is it not a goal for all of us models and photographers here to make money at what we do? Regardless of why, we do want to make money from doing this.

(regardless of legality issues)The difference? We, as adults, can decide for ourselves how to earn income. The kids really don't have a choice.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

I once witnessed something similar but much worse. There was a guy in a motel in the hallway the girls all dolled up happened to walk down, this guy made a comment to some of the little pageant girls about how hot they looked in their bikinis. One of the mothers smiled and said thank you,then made her daughter say thank you for the *compliment*as well!

That is heartbreaking.    The circumstances sound sad.  These are the boundaries that parents cross in teaching their kids to be "polite" yet encourage the idea that a girls body is meant for ogling.  What state of mind is this child going to have when she grows up to be a woman who believes that her body is the way to achieve approval?

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

And at your local town community pool, water theme parks, in their friends back yard pools, the beach......

I totally understand that, but the difference is this...at a pool, the kids are there to be kids and have fun, they don't go to be gawked at and drooled over.  When they are put on the net or pay site as young children, it isn't for fun, it is for people merely to look at them.

I didn't mean to start anything with my comment, that was just my feelings about innocent little girls being posted on the internet, etc.  Not only that, but I do not feel it is safe for them.  It is unsafe enough for teenagers and adults getting sucked into danger on the net by monsters...well, I will hush, I just don't think it is a good idea.  Sorry, but that is just my opinion, not speaking for anyone else. :0)

JJ~XoXo

UCPhotog wrote:

Another way would be to do some research and pass it on to a bunch of senators and congress people. Here's some simple research for you.

This is already very well know information through out congress and courts.  Webe Web is not doing anything illegal.  Getting an Association together of concerned Photographers, Models and Parents might be more effective.

Star wrote:
I just figure if it ain't illegal, we can at least get it off the top of the search engine results

YES!  Please, let's STOP promoting this banner site the link goes to.  They are making money everytime we click on it!

I think the OP "Acid Candy" should remove the link. Also WHO KNOWS who is catching your IP address everytime you go to it?  IF it ever does become an issue of legallity, then we could all have a knock at the door!  Stop clicking on the link!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Also something else we should be aware of is that sometimes the child is not so innocent.  How many of these girls are manipulating their parents because the parent lacks the backbone to BE THE PARENT?    Let's study this carefully before we start the "witch hunt!"

I have said this in about every thread like this on MM,lol. I knew plenty of girls around those ages when I was that age who loved to dress as skimpy as possible, wear heavy makeup and flirt like crazy.
So many people refuse to believe that sexual tendencies in a person do not just wait until someone is a certain age to come out.

jade83 wrote:

(regardless of legality issues)The difference? We, as adults, can decide for ourselves how to earn income. The kids really don't have a choice.

Some of those children want to model, just as many children want to act or sing.

The exploitation of children in the entertainment industry has been going on for many years before the Internet ever existed.

Jessica Jill wrote:

I totally understand that, but the difference is this...at a pool, the kids are there to be kids and have fun, they don't go to be gawked at and drooled over.

in some instances yes, in some no.

F-ing Nuts Benny wrote:
try this site to report, I already made one
http://asacp.org/report.php

I reported the site on there as well.  For anyone who missed the link to this site earlier, there it is again in the quote box...

Jessica Jill wrote:
that was just my feelings about innocent little girls being posted on the internet,

Go look at myspace, you will get a real glimpse at barely the tip of the icebrg of just how many "innocent little girls" post provocative images of themselves on their profiles there. And with the craze of cheap video phones the video section is getting filled with these same "innocent little girls" pretending to be girls gone wild girls, booty dancing in boy shorts, thongs,etc.... having their own wet t shirt contests, lap dancing,etc....

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

in some instances yes, in some no.

Well that is true, but I would hope that little girls that age are not going into public to get gawked at like that on purpose...yipes.

Jessica Jill wrote:

I totally understand that, but the difference is this...at a pool, the kids are there to be kids and have fun, they don't go to be gawked at and drooled over.  When they are put on the net or pay site as young children, it isn't for fun, it is for people merely to look at them.

I didn't mean to start anything with my comment, that was just my feelings about innocent little girls being posted on the internet, etc.  Not only that, but I do not feel it is safe for them.  It is unsafe enough for teenagers and adults getting sucked into danger on the net by monsters...well, I will hush, I just don't think it is a good idea.  Sorry, but that is just my opinion, not speaking for anyone else. :0)

JJ~XoXo

Well, I agree with you on this. Also, while some of these girls may very well want to model there are *legitimate* ways for them to model, just like anyone else. There's a huge differance between modeling and appearing on some barely legal child sex site for pedophiles to oggle. Would any parent want that for their child?

  There is a big-ass differance here.

  -P-

Ched wrote:
Also, if you run your mouse over the pictures at the top of that page, the girl in the purple top over the word "supermodels" ... her shirt starts to lift.

Oh my gosh... that is just so wrong... it literally brought tears to my eyes :-(

Jessica Jill wrote:
Well that is true, but I would hope that little girls that age are not going into public to get gawked at like that on purpose...yipes.

U ever seen those beauty pageants or cheerleader teams?? B'lieve me those chicks are shakin' it and the parents know exactly what they are doin' too. I used to live near some rich folks and their daughter - who was like 15 - dressed like she thought she was Christina Aguilera or something: miss "implied nude" and she was SLAMMIN' and knew it. The parents bought her all that stuff to wear, too. I guess you know "soccer mom" maybe her mom was like trying to be "pimp mom" or somethin'

GWC!

Jessica Jill wrote:

I totally understand that, but the difference is this...at a pool, the kids are there to be kids and have fun, they don't go to be gawked at and drooled over.  When they are put on the net or pay site as young children, it isn't for fun, it is for people merely to look at them.

I didn't mean to start anything with my comment, that was just my feelings about innocent little girls being posted on the internet, etc.  Not only that, but I do not feel it is safe for them.  It is unsafe enough for teenagers and adults getting sucked into danger on the net by monsters...well, I will hush, I just don't think it is a good idea.  Sorry, but that is just my opinion, not speaking for anyone else. :0)

JJ~XoXo

Jessica, first I want to tell you that I like your portfolio.  I agree with much of what you have said too!   However, it is an uphill battle when the entertainment industry (in general) and the porn industry give children the distorted impression of what being a model, actor or musician is.  The role models are not the parents, but what they see on TV, movies and hear in music.  I've been working on getting an association together for a couple years now with the purpose of putting a positive face on what "Internet modeling" can be.  It is slowly changing, but if you mention the Internet and modeling in the same sentence to most people, they still have "porn site modeling" in their minds!  I am angry about that!  The Internet has so much more potential to be used by ALL models and photographers who are NOT in porn.  Maybe education is the way to build a better 'net?

The Thorny Rose wrote:

I reported the site on there as well.  For anyone who missed the link to this site earlier, there it is again in the quote box...

One problem.  It's not child porn.  The FBI is breathing down the neck of Webe Web already, but until there is child porn (by Federal defination) then there is not much more they can do but keep an eye on them.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

Go look at myspace, you will get a real glimpse at barely the tip of the icebrg of just how many "innocent little girls" post provocative images of themselves on their profiles there. And with the craze of cheap video phones the video section is getting filled with these same "innocent little girls" pretending to be girls gone wild girls, booty dancing in boy shorts, thongs,etc.... having their own wet t shirt contests, lap dancing,etc....

Just because "everyone is doing it" doesn't make it right. These kids are obviously lacking in guidance by their parents. It's like the Simpsons episode when Bart and Milhouse found the Playboys with the photos cutout of them. The created the "Playboy mansion mood" but had absolutely no idea what the magazine was really about. Parent sneed to be there to guide their children, teach them morals. pass along social mores, and do what it is parents are supposed to be doing. Allowing your children to be set up as pedophile bait is not good parenting; it's gross incompetance at best and child endangerment at worse. If the parents had a clue and if they bothered to teach these children what is appropriate behavior this wouldn't be such a huge problem. This is why I'd like the news shows to do stories on this crap at least once a month; just to get the word out. It's amazing how clueless both parents and children can be.

  If a kid wants to get into modeling that's fine -- they should have the support and guideance of their parents to help them along and to help them make the right decisions. These sites are not modeling sites; they are exploitation sites. Again, there's a huge differance. Again, just because there's a lot of them doing it does not make it right. Nor does it mean we should just ignore it. As a society we have a greater responsibility than that.

  I firmly believe adults have the right to do as they want as long as their actions don't hurt another. If an adult wants to be a porn star that's perfectly fine; they are able to make their own decisions and take responsibility for those decisions. But a child isn't ready to make those kinds of decisions; they require adults to guide and protect them. These sites do not guide and protect them; they exploit the children and take advantage of their trusting nature and ignorance of the world. People are being hurt, and this is not acceptable.

  Anyway, enough rant for now. I sent the link to my local news station but haven't heard anything abck as of yet. I hope they choose to do a story about this; people need to have the wool pulled from their eyes. Just because something may be legal doesn't make it right. What the hell happened to common sense anyway?

  -P-

Moonlightflame wrote:
one has to wonder.

I certainly think that is the creepiest thing in the world... but  I also know there is a market for legal girls who can pass for really young. Espeically since that looks like if you click around enough it IS a porn site (not that I did.... but some of the links that downloaded in the background are names I've heard associated with the adult industry).

Now, I can't say that is the case.... certainly some of those girls look 12 and 13, but i also know that there are days where people think I'm the younger sister in my family and my sister is only 15.

That being said, ew. And it SHOULD be looked into in case I'm completely wrong.

There's also software that can make "legal" adults look younger. Sorta along the lines of what the cops use for missing children only in reverse.

You can thank an episode of Law & Order: SVU for that useless piece of info.

Ched wrote:
Their transdactions aren't even by credit card, you have to have a pre-paid calling card to join th site. Major anonymity.

Just what the buggers on the sex offender registery want.

Glamour Boulevard wrote:

Go look at myspace, you will get a real glimpse at barely the tip of the icebrg of just how many "innocent little girls" post provocative images of themselves on their profiles there. And with the craze of cheap video phones the video section is getting filled with these same "innocent little girls" pretending to be girls gone wild girls, booty dancing in boy shorts, thongs,etc.... having their own wet t shirt contests, lap dancing,etc....

That's the truth! I'm on MySpace with three profiles. One for personal (friends/family), one for my photography of models, and one for my music magazine, so I do look at the profiles of those wanting to be "friends."  It shocks me how the profiles of many of these 14 to 16 year olds are!  Using the F* word, images shot in lingerie, etc .. and from girls all over the World, not just the USA! 

The Internet is like the "Wild West!"