Taylor James wrote:
Why should anyone have a gun in the first place? Fire arms being illegal to carry in Canada is one law I am very thankful for... the thought of someone on the bus/street/building has -never- crossed my mind.

Taylor, this one of the fundamental differences between our two countries, and the hinge of the question, "What came first, the gun or the problem?" Per capita gun ownership in Canada is not much lower than that in the US, the difference is in the form. The majority of Canadian guns are rifles and shotguns, and handguns are hard to get legally. Sadly, they are becoming easier to get illegally, due to a tremendous influx of illegal weapons from the US, which is causing an increase in gun violence in the major centers.
   In Canada, even pepper spray is an illegal concealed weapon. For models up here, the best defense is numbers, and common sense. This is why I always ask to meet new models for coffee prior to a shoot, and my "boyfriend trouble" are minimal.
   If you have doubts about the photographer, just don't go.
   If an escort showed up with a handgun to one of my shoots, I would get a name and liscense number, and let the police deal with him later.

markcomp wrote:
Staying out of danger is no longer a true option.  In this day and age no area is safe.

Actually, the US, today, is one of the safest places on the world. In fact, it's one of the safest places in human history. If you watch too much TV, you'll get the opposite impression, of course.

mjr.

Photos2amaze wrote:
I would much rather a model bring a gun or a set of nun-chucks to a shoot than her Manager-aka-boyfriend.  Or the guy that wants to be her boyfriend-aka-manager.

Did you see the thread where Malchow Photography had a boyfriend-aka-manager with a gun?

https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=34456

HungryEye wrote:
If an escort showed up with a handgun to one of my shoots, I would get a name and liscense number, and let the police deal with him later.

Likewise, only I would let the police deal with him right away.

Bill Sylvester wrote:
Back in February, I had a model's escort pull a gun (to use as a prop) during a shoot.  Here's the thread:
https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=29677

So last night, I'm assisting another photographer, and what happens?  The model pulls a gun out of her purse. Yes, it was a different model.

It doesn't suprise me this time, like it did the last time, and I made sure it was unloaded, which I stupidly didn't do last time.

So I'm beginning to think this is a normal thing. Opinions?

WHAT are you asking these models that they end up showing you their gun?????

Marcus J. Ranum wrote:
That's a great way to get yourself killed, unless you're skilled in its use and are constantly prepared to go lethal if necessary. Most people don't want to think/live that way.

You sound as if you're well trained in the arts. =o) I tell people this all the time who talk about guns and the types of weapons they want for "Home protection." Case in point I was at a club once where some ignoramous pulled a Baretta 92F on me then was TOTALLY confused when I pulled it apart while it was still in his hand and commenced beating him within an inch of his life with the slide.

If you have a weapon you better be good and ready to employ said weapon. Though with a gun all force doesn't have to be deadly if the armed person can keep their head together.

Hamptons Glamour wrote:
I think some good self defense training is fantastic for models and much more effective than a weapon. I've actually taught self defense to a few model friends and one of them even had to use the skills she learned at a photo shoot and was able to get out of the situation. I find in talking about this subject with most people is that they think that the female can only win if she has a weapon. The idea of the self defense that I try to teach is not to defeat the other person, but just to give a window of opportunity to escape the situation unharmed. However, I do feel that the best defense is to be very aware of your surroundings and you'd be surprised how you can identify a potential bad situation way before it happens.

This is an excellent lesson I try to teach to all my friends. Be aware of your surroundings at all times. And to simply buy yourself enough time to escape the situation rather than engage in a prolonged battle that you could end up losing.

Bodyguard= A highly trained professional COWARD! We run from situations (With the client) rather than fight it out.

The REAL truth is though that NO ONE is safe. There is no such thing as SECURITY! Not TRUE security or safety. The most protected person in the WORLD is the President of the United States and even HE can be taken out. So what makes any of us think we somehow are more different.

Simply use common sense. That is your BEST weapon. Too bad it isn't so common anymore though.

But that is the first time I've heard of a model / escort bringing a gun to a shoot. That cracks me up.



This was a fun shoot and it got VERY dirty... two models lesbian activity and gun fire... It was great. Keep getting people wanting to buy the video from me because they can't believe we did it.

Bill Sylvester wrote:
Back in February, I had a model's escort pull a gun (to use as a prop) during a shoot.  Here's the thread:
https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=29677

So last night, I'm assisting another photographer, and what happens?  The model pulls a gun out of her purse. Yes, it was a different model.

It doesn't suprise me this time, like it did the last time, and I made sure it was unloaded, which I stupidly didn't do last time.

So I'm beginning to think this is a normal thing. Opinions?

I think you're working with nutty models.

Mark Fellows wrote:
Oh what about tazers?  They have some really good ones, that are non lethal. 

That way we don't have to get into the whole gun debate about which country is more civilized because they don't have guns versus, why washington DC who has anti gun laws has one of, if not the, worst crime rate in the us.


The shame of it is, there are too many creeps out there.  Models wouldn't have the need to bring escorts if there weren't real problems with idiot photographers.

I had my last model bring her husband.  He was very non intrusive and a general good guy.  I liked him.  I could tell that the model was a little stiffled to do the more sexy stuff but I am glad she brought him the first time.

Mark

Shouldn't she bring him a second time?  Why trust you after one session?

Mark Fellows wrote:
SHe can do whatever she wants.  But she probably won't, because I am such a cool guy!  LOL

I wouldn't dream of telling someone who they could and could not bring.

I think it would be eisier to tell her to arch her back a little if her husband wasn't there. But we can work it out any either way/.

My point is is tha† really, she should never trust you.   You could be the psycho she suspected but just on good behaviour until hubby/bodyguard decides to stay at home and mow the lawn.

KM von Seidl wrote:

My point is is tha† really, she should never trust you.   You could be the psycho she suspected but just on good behaviour until hubby/bodyguard decides to stay at home and mow the lawn.

Was your point for me specifically or the thread?

I didn't ever mean to come off in support of not bringing an escort, did you read that in there somewhere?

I'm sorry, by "I'm glad she brought him the first time"  I didn't EVER mean she couldn't bring him again.  I have read profile after profile, and a lot say, " I will bring an escort with me the first time I meet a new photographer"

And how about not trying to say she suspected me of being a psycho because she brought her husband with her. Because she really didn't   I thought this was SOP, to bring an escort to shoots.

Mark Fellows wrote:
SHe can do whatever she wants.  But she probably won't, because I am such a cool guy!  LOL

I wouldn't dream of telling someone who they could and could not bring.

I think it would be eisier to tell her to arch her back a little if her husband wasn't there. But we can work it out any either way/.

We usually ask potential models to bring someone they would be comfortable posing in front of.

DJTalStudios wrote:

We usually ask potential models to bring someone they would be comfortable posing in front of.

I didn't mind him being there, he wasn't obtrusive at all, I could just tell she felt a little stiffled because she wanted to wear this really short skirt, but she wasn't sure if he minded.  I volonteered to step out while they discussed it and at one point I just said let's forget about it. In the end,  she wanted to do it but said since he was there she wouldn't turn around with it on.

I said "sure thing if that's what you want, but we don't have to do it"

I think the pictures would have turned out slightly better if she had felt more un inhibited(sp). Maybe a little sexier.  Even though they needed some work besides that.  Maybe next time.

thanks for the above advice.

Mark

markcomp wrote:
In the right hands anything is a weapon even a flashlight.

Yep...just look at Jackie Chan!

Howard Garcia wrote:
Yep...just look at Jackie Chan!

Or Bullseye from the Daredevil movie.

Marcus J. Ranum wrote:

That's a great way to get yourself killed, unless you're skilled in its use and are constantly prepared to go lethal if necessary. Most people don't want to think/live that way.

Because of the average differences in upper body strength and size, unless you're seriously prepared to use an "equalizer" a gun or a knife or a can of mace in a woman's hand turns a situation potentially into a lethal encounter. I'm not saying women should not be prepared to fight and/or defend themselves - but knowing how to fight/defend yourself goes a long way beyond simply carrying a concealed weapon.

The best defense is to stay out of danger. The second best defense is numbers. While one grown man can easily flatten most women, two women would be a much tougher battle. And (except in the movies) one guy cannot easily take on two other guys or even a man and a woman, unless he's trained himself to be a fighter.

Guns and knives, etc, are absolutely terrible as defensive weapons. The only way to defend with a gun is to attack the other guy first, which means you need to be prepared at any moment to employ lethal force in advance of an attack. Or you can hole you'll get lucky and scare them with it. But attempting to scare someone with a gun gives away any advantage of surprise and, if you're on the attacker's territory, that's a really really bad idea. Knives are even worse for self-defense because they also require that you employ damaging force against your attacker before he can kill you - and getting a quick kill with a knife is very hard and requires a surprising amount of strength. Knife-killing is not like it's portrayed on TV. Learning to kill requires a level of committment nobody in their right mind is going to be willing to make, and unless you're willing to kill a concealed weapon just increases your chances the other guy's going to use it on you.

The best form of self-defense is to have a sniper in overwatch.   By the way that gets around the whole question of a noisy escort at a shoot.   "My escort's outside. You can't see him but with his 32X scope, he can see you."

mjr.

You have a very clear understanding of how a situation can get out of hand quickly if one "expects" that carrying a gun or knife will protect them. Better to take some self defense classes and bring an escort.

VRG Photography wrote:
WHAT are you asking these models that they end up showing you their gun?????

Well, the time it was me working, I said "This outfit needs a gun".  I was thinking about a toy gun I had in my car to use as a prop.  Her "escort" pulls a .25 cal out of her (the escort (the model's cousin)) purse for us to use.

The second time, I think the model was rooting through her purse for lipstick or something. I wasn't really paying much attention since I wasn't the photographer. She didn't have anybody with her.

SayCheeZ! wrote:
Hire this model:



She's not armed!

She's a bit stiff, but I might be able to lend her a hand..

(Snare shot with cymbal crash)

KM von Seidl wrote:
I think you're working with nutty models.

I'm beginning to think so too.

I'm also starting to get a bit paranoid.  As I walk down the street, how many people around me are packing?

Capri Cherry wrote:
youve just reminded me i had a little 25 i might want to shoot (not SHOOT) BUT shoot with

God, James Bond aside, don't shoot anyone with that thing. You'll just make them mad!

markcomp wrote:
I think all women should carry a concealed weapon.

Hear, Hear! So do I. And men too.

Lens N Light wrote:

Hear, Hear! So do I. And men too.

I'm dont think anyone should ever carry a conceled weapon.

If your going to do it properly walk down the street with an AK on your back, or a sword at your side. If you think thats a bad idea then dont take anything.

I live in a country where you go to jail for any conceled weapon. Which is how I like it.

Taylor James wrote:
Why should anyone have a gun in the first place? Fire arms being illegal to carry in Canada is one law I am very thankful for... the thought of someone on the bus/street/building has -never- crossed my mind.

Right, and only criminals carry guns in Canada. Of course, who else do you need to worry about.
Everyone should have to run for his life at least once. To prove that meat doen't come from a supermarket, safety doesn't come from policemen, and news isn't always something that happens to the other guy!

Bill Sylvester wrote:

I'm beginning to think so too.

I'm also starting to get a bit paranoid.  As I walk down the street, how many people around me are packing?

More than you think.

Bangerman wrote:
I'm dont think anyone should ever carry a conceled weapon.

If your going to do it properly walk down the street with an AK on your back, or a sword at your side. If you think thats a bad idea then dont take anything.

I live in a country where you go to jail for any concealed weapon. Which is how I like it.

The problem with carrying in plain sight is that some people are afraid of guns. Not just "don't like 'em" but really afraid of them. It's called hoplophobia. I carry concealed because I don't want to scare folks unnecessarily. I won't even carry an uncased rifle or shotgun from my car into a gun store for that same reason, but I am always carrying and have 50+ years of experience in pistol combat shooting and formal competition to back it up. Oh, and I don't carry a pop gun; my choice is a Colt 1911 Gold Cup 45 ACP. I'm big enough to hide that size gun.
Incidentally, I have never drawn a gun in anger.

Bill Sylvester wrote:

Well, the time it was me working, I said "This outfit needs a gun".  I was thinking about a toy gun I had in my car to use as a prop.  Her "escort" pulls a .25 cal out of her (the escort (the model's cousin)) purse for us to use.

The second time, I think the model was rooting through her purse for lipstick or something. I wasn't really paying much attention since I wasn't the photographer. She didn't have anybody with her.

I remember the first thread.

Wow.

adam garrett wrote:

I think so 2, and take some self defense. One good thing for self defense is also a tactical flashlight, which isn't really a weapon, but can help you out a ton if somebody tries to do something by temporarily blinding your attacker.

Yerallprollygonnafreakout but . . .

I have a tactical flashlight.  I also know how to use it. 

Not only do I have the flashlight, but I also have a couple of holsters.  Inside of the holsters you will find a .40 caliber Glock Model 22.

If you dig a little deeper, you will find my wallet.  Inside of my wallet you will find that I am authorized by the State Of Arizona to not only carry my weapon, but I can make it so that you don't even know that I have it.

Not only am I a great shot, but I have been trained on not only how to shoot, but how to deploy the weapon and how to conduct yourself after the lead has flown and the mothers are weaping.

So, if a model shows up and she's packin' heat.  I think that's cool.  It'll give us something to talk about.  Hell, we might even be able to skip off to the range after the shoot.

Just to freak her out, though, I might remind her that while she is working, the weapon is out of her control.  Muahahahahahaha!

Bill Sylvester wrote:
Back in February, I had a model's escort pull a gun (to use as a prop) during a shoot.  Here's the thread:
https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=29677

So last night, I'm assisting another photographer, and what happens?  The model pulls a gun out of her purse. Yes, it was a different model.

It doesn't suprise me this time, like it did the last time, and I made sure it was unloaded, which I stupidly didn't do last time.

So I'm beginning to think this is a normal thing. Opinions?

Same type of thing happened at one of my networking meetings when a visiting photographer had one of the models pose with a 25 semi automatic used as a prop without asking my permission first. Since I’m responsible for the room we use and the conduct of the people that attend the meetings, I reminded him of the common courtesy to me and the others in the room and ask him not to use it as a prop again while at my meeting.

I also shoot with a fetish model once a week that will not shoot if a gun is in the same room, she's been shot before and I respect her wishes.

Jack Elliott wrote:
Well, after reading most of both posts I've concluded that many of you peoples' misconceptions about firearms is what truly scares me.
First, I too would have been a little concerned if someone pulled out an unanounced firearm on my set. But that is because I'm a firm believer in gun control. Meaning, if there's a gun around I intend on being the one in control of it.
Second, all this flap about an unloaded gun is so pointless. Once a firearm is unloaded, and everyone knows it is unloaded, and everyone is mindfull to make sure no one else has reloaded it, it is no more lethal than a papr weight or a good sized zoom lense. So where is the intimidation factor? Personally I'd be much more intimidated by someone handling a live tarantula on my set. And MUCH more apt to call an end to the shoot.
Lastly, just because someone is carying a firearm doesn't mean they are a mindless barbarian bend on your personal destruction, or that they are just looking for the chance to pull and point it at someone. But, like an old state trooper friend of mine said to me once about carying his weapon off-duty without a permit "I'd rather have it and not need it than the other way around."
I went through the Tennessee cary permit classes, which are now valid in like 26 other states, so don't assume just because I'm from out of state I can't cary in yours. Here is what I learned:
1. Don't cary a gun.
2. If you forget rule #1, don't pull it.
3. If you forget rules #1 & #2, make damned sure you kill everything and everyone you point it at.
I rarely cary a firearm on my person, but In my own environment I am never more than a few feet from one either.

Jack, we are brothers.  We operate under different philosophies, though.

I once had an uncle who was killed with an "unloaded" weapon.

I frequently carry a firearm on my person.

When I am carrying it, you won't know it.

If you do know it, it's because you've not only threatened but have demonstrated that you are going to take a life while in my presence -- at this point, it will be too late.

I use a team approach to my photography.  We are there to do a job.  Because there are so many people around, nobody will be able to get a shot off without firing into a crowd.

Mark Fellows wrote:
Oh what about tazers?  They have some really good ones, that are non lethal. 

That way we don't have to get into the whole gun debate about which country is more civilized because they don't have guns versus, why washington DC who has anti gun laws has one of, if not the, worst crime rate in the us.


The shame of it is, there are too many creeps out there.  Models wouldn't have the need to bring escorts if there weren't real problems with idiot photographers.

I had my last model bring her husband.  He was very non intrusive and a general good guy.  I liked him.  I could tell that the model was a little stiffled to do the more sexy stuff but I am glad she brought him the first time.

Mark

Tazer = A way for you to get sued.

Even if you are involved in a justified shoot in a home invasion, you will be sued by aunt Emma who will protest that her boy was going to college so that he could raise his four children.  Emma will argue that her boy was confused and got lost on his way home.  He was just doing too much homework.

Whether someone uses lethal or non-lethal force, somebody will sue.

SmartAz Photography wrote:
I once had an uncle who was killed with an "unloaded" weapon.

Ridiculous! Anyone who is killed by an unloaded gun was either beaten to death with it or had a heart attack when yhey saw it.
Many people, however, have been killed by a gun they thought was unloaded. That s why a competent gunhandler always treats a gun as if it were loaded. (A gun that discharges accidentaly doen't hurt anyone unless it's pointed at them.O