Phoenix E wrote:
i could not agree more......
it is the thing that frustrates me the most in glancing through a portfolio--a beautiful person in beautiful clothes and the exact same expression in every shot....
i really believe that the most important part of being a model is being able to emote. it is one of the only things that cannot be done by the photographer.

You are a great example of a model with talent.  Your looks are different and unique.  Don't get me wrong photographers must be able to capture looks and
emotions.  Part of this is called the decisive moment.  Yet how fustrating to have a beautifull  model who has one look.

VirtuaMike wrote:
You can't put all the blame on a model. It's a photographers job to work and pull that look out.

Exactly.  Go team effort.

VirtuaMike wrote:
You can't put all the blame on a model. It's a photographers job to work and pull that look out.

It's not about putting blame, as one poster has said, photgraphers need to be directors as well.

Just lie not every one has the on camera gifts as another, not everyone can be a photgrapher either.

The magic really happens when both parties bring all the tool to the table.

In the end, if EVERYBODY could do everything, well it just wouldnt be as much fun. :-)

Photography by Elliot wrote:
Mebbe sometimes it takes the right photographer to bring out that something special, extra in the model? I for one am nowhere near that level, but suspect that as much as a model needs to be an actor, a photographer needs to be a director ... im sure ill get bashed for this, but aside from everything, isn't it the interaction between the two people using a camera?

I'm sure that every photographer has his fav model that he works with often/closely and somehow due to chemistry or experience or what not, results are better as there is a good comfort level and trust that allows the models to relax and be herself and the photographer to suggest more difficult or demanding themes?

This can be very true.  A good director can very often push or bring something out in his actors.  Sometimes its a comfort level but I'm talking about models who
have worked with several photographers who continue to give the same smile or
looks.  Look around this site.  The models have great figures and faces but what
makes one model more desired then another?  So many seem stiff and posed.
Looking at their ports I'm most impressed by models who project somethng in their
eyes.  Maybe its a willingness to take chances.  Maybe its a warmth they project
or attitude but lets see something besides that blank and or vapid smile.

Marley Decadence wrote:
i definately practice in the mirror and even when friends are taking pictures of me for fun,  i definately want my personality to shine through.. i hope it does!

I got a mirror in my pocket and I practice lookin' hard

Mirror, mirror make the call

Who's the hardest of them all
   
            --------- E-40


I just had to add that

VirtuaMike wrote:
You can't put all the blame on a model. It's a photographers job to work and pull that look out.

No blame just an observation.  However we've all had models that seem to just flow into looks and poses.  Almost no direction is needed.  They have a instinctive
feel for the camera.  Think for example; Betty Page.  While there were models as pretty and with nice figures, she stood out.  I've only had a few models like this.
Women so at ease with themselves that you hated for the shoot to end.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Maybe its a willingness to take chances.

I think there's something to that.  In my field (art modeling), unless you're doing totally impersonal figure work, the model's ability to project and be emotionally available to the camera in some capacity is crucial to the overall success of the image.  Whether her expressiveness is subtle or exaggerated, there's an incredible degree of vulnerability that goes along with it.  You have to be willing to make mistakes or look stupid.  You've gotta sometimes take a shot that might not make you look beautiful but is somehow meaningful or important despite the lack of "beauty."  You need to care about what you're doing, and be invested in it beyond the "Ohhh, pretty!" factor if it's going to mean something to someone else.

If you look at some of the art models on this site who have mindbendingly creative portfolios, and who consistently work with photographers who are genuinely artists with their gear, you'll find an enormous emotional range in their portfolios.  Photographers feed on that.  When they know they can get X or Y or Z from a model just for the asking, they get pumped, you can see it fuel their creativity, their energy goes way up, and that's when the magic happens.

FabioTovar wrote:
check out my new thread on comments. I made a comment about the models pose and expression here:


https://modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=36533

im not saying she has no passion im just saying i made a comment on her choice of expression.. (or the photographers... I dont know who made the choice)

Intresting and well said and what my post is all about.  She's pretty the pose nice
a bit lacking in the tech area but she looks dead.  Its funny I've seen models who with all their clothes on have more sex appeal then a explict nude model.
Sure the photographer is responsible for the final images but there are very real reasons that some models make it and some don't.

Shyly wrote:

I think there's something to that.  In my field (art modeling), unless you're doing totally impersonal figure work, the model's ability to project and be emotionally available to the camera in some capacity is crucial to the overall success of the image.  Whether her expressiveness is subtle or exaggerated, there's an incredible degree of vulnerability that goes along with it.  You have to be willing to make mistakes or look stupid.  You've gotta sometimes take a shot that might not make you look beautiful but is somehow meaningful or important despite the lack of "beauty."  You need to care about what you're doing, and be invested in it beyond the "Ohhh, pretty!" factor if it's going to mean something to someone else.

If you look at some of the art models on this site who have mindbendingly creative portfolios, and who consistently work with photographers who are genuinely artists with their gear, you'll find an enormous emotional range in their portfolios.  Photographers feed on that.  When they know they can get X or Y or Z from a model just for the asking, they get pumped, you can see it fuel their creativity, their energy goes way up, and that's when the magic happens.

I love you!  You are on target.  A model is often a muse for a photographer.  I'm not talking about someone who is shooting snapshot level images or crude or
Hustler level nudes but someone who is trying to create a piece of art, stock
shot or portfolio work.  I recall shooting a really pretty model who was stiff as
a board and had one expression, pissed.  Thats all she had to give, this look like
she smelled something bad.  I even asked her if my breath was bad or if I was
smelly.  She said no.  I do try not to offend.  As you can imagine the shoot wasn't a success.  She was pretty, the outfits nice, good make-up but a model with
nothing to give.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
model is often a muse for a photographer

that's touching awfully close to another question; many might counter that we work with a number of models but only few ever become a true "muse" ...

still, as per the original question, just as applicable to working with a "muse", we the photographers have to do our part in bringing out what we're trying to get.

fml

Photography by Elliot wrote:
Ahh I see your point ... its as if there is no personality inside or none coming out in those shots - technically correct, beautiful, but somehow lifeless? I wonder what the cure is? ...

You got it.  Its why a actor like Dakota Fanning is so sought out.  There
are lots of talented children but she shines.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

You are a great example of a model with talent.  Your looks are different and unique.  Don't get me wrong photographers must be able to capture looks and
emotions.  Part of this is called the decisive moment.  Yet how fustrating to have a beautifull  model who has one look.

Thank you so much. Sincerely.

Shyly wrote:

I think there's something to that.  In my field (art modeling), unless you're doing totally impersonal figure work, the model's ability to project and be emotionally available to the camera in some capacity is crucial to the overall success of the image.  Whether her expressiveness is subtle or exaggerated, there's an incredible degree of vulnerability that goes along with it.  You have to be willing to make mistakes or look stupid.  You've gotta sometimes take a shot that might not make you look beautiful but is somehow meaningful or important despite the lack of "beauty."  You need to care about what you're doing, and be invested in it beyond the "Ohhh, pretty!" factor if it's going to mean something to someone else.

If you look at some of the art models on this site who have mindbendingly creative portfolios, and who consistently work with photographers who are genuinely artists with their gear, you'll find an enormous emotional range in their portfolios.  Photographers feed on that.  When they know they can get X or Y or Z from a model just for the asking, they get pumped, you can see it fuel their creativity, their energy goes way up, and that's when the magic happens.

again, shyly ma chere, you put into words that which is in my head....

FML-Photography wrote:

that's touching awfully close to another question; many might counter that we work with a number of models but only few ever become a true "muse" ...

still, as per the original question, just as applicable to working with a "muse", we the photographers have to do our part in bringing out what we're trying to get.

fml

Shyly said it best in her comments about art models, etc.  What has happened to me is that when a model is stiff and unwilling or unable to emote it affects me.
Have you for example had a model ask before a shoot how long it will take?
I've told several, its over now.  Even if I haven't started.  As much as the models
look drives me her overall attitude affects me.  However this is a departure from my original point of models giving something.  No one can know you by seeing a photo but you can give a viewer somthing that they will remember. Some models
no matter how pretty can't and some average models are so full of energy and
life it radiates all through their images.  Those are the models I want.

Anthony Wallace wrote:
in addition to the lack of emotion in their shots, dont forget how no one is dependable around here. one out of a hundred girls will even bother to respond to messages about work (alot of times i assume they dont respond cause they dont think its paid work, but since they dont respond, they never find out i was gonna offer them pay) and out of those who do respond and will set up a shoot with you, 99% of those will either cancel last minute or not bother to show up at all (and not try to ever contact you after to let you know the deal). i'm about two seconds away from deleting my account all together.

This is a big problem.  As a photographer of people you count on them so that
you can work through your creative ideals.  However I would say don't count on
them at all.  When you hear from a model for a shoot have her call and confirm
a hour before a shoot.  Still some won't show.  Its part of the bussiness but you
are getting models and you have good work.  Network a bit more.  Notice even some of the major players here have the same issues.  Don't quit! I have often
had better luck with women I've met at malls and in public.  I'm pretty friendly
even if that doesn't always come accross here.  Think this way, you go to a party
to meet a nice lady hopefully to get dates.  If you only talk to one or two odds are you won't get a date but if you open up and talk to more ladies you open the
door to more chances.

Shyly wrote:

I think there's something to that.  In my field (art modeling), unless you're doing totally impersonal figure work, the model's ability to project and be emotionally available to the camera in some capacity is crucial to the overall success of the image.  Whether her expressiveness is subtle or exaggerated, there's an incredible degree of vulnerability that goes along with it.  You have to be willing to make mistakes or look stupid.  You've gotta sometimes take a shot that might not make you look beautiful but is somehow meaningful or important despite the lack of "beauty."  You need to care about what you're doing, and be invested in it beyond the "Ohhh, pretty!" factor if it's going to mean something to someone else.

If you look at some of the art models on this site who have mindbendingly creative portfolios, and who consistently work with photographers who are genuinely artists with their gear, you'll find an enormous emotional range in their portfolios.  Photographers feed on that.  When they know they can get X or Y or Z from a model just for the asking, they get pumped, you can see it fuel their creativity, their energy goes way up, and that's when the magic happens.

And you are one of my absolute favorites in this realm!!!

Tony Lawrence wrote:
So many of the models here have beautifull faces and figures they often
have cool creative shots with great outfits but somethings missing...
They all look the same.  Its the same look or expression, shot after shot
after shot.  There is often no passion in their eyes.  I remember seeing
the movie; Anton Fisher.  The main character goes to meet his birth mother who had abandoned him.  She had a history of mental problems and I believe drug abuse.  This actor without saying a word gives a fantastic performance with just her facial expressions.  This is to me whats often lacking in model ports.  This in no way is a knock at models as I stated at the start, all of you are beautifull but many lack that special spark and that in my view is what separates average models from great models.

I could not agree more.  It took me a fair while to discover this and this is my take on it. 

Modeling is acting for single frame movies. 

Being unique or beautiful gets you in the door but if you cannot perform, loose your concern about the camera and the people there then the images will reflect that.  Modeling is a verb, and this can be seen very clearly on the runway because we have all seen moving picture captures of a runway show. Here, one can see the models model.

If a model brought the same movement, expression and confidence to a shoot then they will get wonderful results (as compared to if they didn't) We are all at varying stages in our careers and pursuits so there may be models out there who do not have it yet, seek the abandon, seek the confidence, seek the lack of concern about ones surroundings during the shoot, seek the freedom to be expressive both facially and physically.

This is all just personal opinion and if you look at the results of my first 18 months of photography you will see where some brought it and others didnt by going here http://www.hananexposures.com/ and click on models.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

No blame just an observation.  However we've all had models that seem to just flow into looks and poses.  Almost no direction is needed.  They have a instinctive
feel for the camera.  Think for example; Betty Page.  While there were models as pretty and with nice figures, she stood out.  I've only had a few models like this.
Women so at ease with themselves that you hated for the shoot to end.

It helps when you feel at ease with the photographer, then you can just concentrate on the shot

VirtuaMike wrote:
You can't put all the blame on a model. It's a photographers job to work and pull that look out.

I disagree, We can only do so much to direct them.  We can't give them personality or charisma, sensuality, sex appeal or the ability to model.. Models need to get into character with whatever the concept maybe. Some models are afraid of looking a certain way infront of the camera that they have learned to hold certain poses because they think they look best that way.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
they often
have cool creative shots with great outfits but somethings missing...
They all look the same.  Its the same look or expression, shot after shot
after shot.

Yes, but as you look through photos, don't many of the shots look much the same?  The photographer apparently calling for the same pose? The same thought of a prop forced into the scene? Same angles? Same lighting?

Any given group has its own level. Someone can be a terrific high school athlete yet not be competitive in college. Or be competitive in college but not have a chance in the pros.

The comparison holds true with modeling and photography. Most of the models, most of the photographers, on this site are above what you would get as opposed to someone off the street with a camera. But within this higher level, there is a level of "average," too. A model can be beautiful but vanilla - a photographer's work can be technically great but vanilla.

It's the level that transcends "average," sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot, that make it all worthwhile for those people who like to see the good stuff emerge. Sure, some models have no passion. Neither do some photographers. It's all part of the spectrum of the human experience. The outstanding will stand out.

Bob Randall Photography wrote:
I call it the "On The Pole" look or the "Deer In The Headlights" look. Many of the on-line talent people have this problem. It's one of the reasons I always ask if a potential talent has any acting experience.

Bob, Your work is all about getting the model to emote! Check out his port!  Perfect examples of photographer and models working together.