Amanda Jeanne wrote:
Most people are speaking up because this thread (quite like many others) has turned into models vs. photographers. Which I think is incredibly stupid, because a lot of us use this site to work with each other's talents. But some models (and possibly photographers, though I haven't seen it in this thread) are certainly burning their own bridges by the kinds of things they say on here.

I can't believe this thing is still on.  LoL.

Let me say it once more.

In any business, nobody cares about your cost of doing business.  Your worth is judged by the value proposition of what you offer.  Your ability to stay in business is by controlling your cost to stay profitable.

And also, in any business, there are barriers of entry, some higher than the other, besides monetary cost.  When we talk about cost, again, in any business, it is something you want to minimize, not artificially inflate.  There is nothing smart about saying how much your thing cost, because people can always find a way to do it cheaper, faster and easier, and they will take the market.

All businesses that have burned cash like it is no object have failed, and will fail.  Look at the dot-coms.  Modeling is not an exception, unless you are independently wealthy.

As professionals, we already know that it costs money for everyone to do any business, and we do not speak of it; it is unnecessary, rude, disrespectful and irrelevant.  We value each others' talents without having to mention it.

Jayne, no one has anything against you.  People just stated, like me, that everyone has cost, and that it is irrelevant.  And threads like this is pointless, disrespectful to everyone and proved nothing.  No one cares that you spend this insane amount of money to do a photoshoot to artificially inflate the cost of modeling.  You are just as guilty in inflating numbers as some photographers here, and I don't care for either.  Both are pointless.

It's up to you to live in excesses, and it is up to you to pave a path that you want to pave.  We are just telling you that it does not add enough value to your value proposition (although you will get nice images from a great photographer), and that does not justify the cost.  Professional models do not pay that much to have their books done, not for one photoshoot.  Making investment into one's career is one thing; living to excesses and wasting money has nothing to do with making investment.

Also, I must add that by paying all these money for a photoshoot, you have validated my point about value.  The photographer/makeup artist team are so valuable to you that you would pay money for their service.

Ok, now I am beating another dead horse. 

RIP thread.

majoy wrote:
WHY START A THREAD THAT YOU CAN'T TAKE PEOPLES' COMMENTS FOR?!

You said you started this thread to spark dialogue or show the other side of the coin and you can't take that your MONOLOGUE has turned into a dialogue.  The fact that you are feeling attacked shows that your intent is not as you initially expressed.  You THOUGHT you could get a whole bunch of models rallied around you and push photogs down.  You are exactly the kind of "model" I'd absolute abhor to work with.  My point is this.  Until you have the clout to make demands upon the fashion industry, don't complain because it is YOUR CHOICE to try to become a part of it.

1-Don't put words in my mouth.  If you feel I "thought I was trying to get a whold lot of models to rally around me. . .then say that's what you thought, but unless you are clairvoyant. . .you do you and let me do me.

2-I did start this post to show the other side of the coin.  I take it you have not read the first post (photog expenses) that I started a few weeks ago.  Try reading up on that and then kick me your knowledge on what you think I'm trying to do.  Think of it as my asking what other models spend on photo shoots.  Wait. . .that is what I asked.  My mistake was posting my own expeses as an example.  The fact remains (based on evidence from my Photog Expenses thread), that if it wasn't me. . .it would be another model. 

3-It's not the "replies to my post" that upset me so, it's the fact that you and so many other non-models are thumbing their nose at my expenses.  Yes they are expeses I choose to have.  I don't mind that.  I've only tried to justify them for those that feel I'm lying about them.  It's called providing proof.  I try not to talk out of my ass whenever possible.

So no babygurl.  I'm not complaining.  I'm standing up for myself.  At least a dozen people have said that I'm dumb/not going to make it/yadda yadda yadda all because of what I said I wanted to invest in myself.  Now if someone says I have no talent. . .that's a totally different thing.  Sorry if you seem to think that sitting back and letting people shit on your dreams merely because they disagree with your approach, is not having "thick skin" then so be it.  I think differently.  If anyone has a problem with that. . .that's too damn bad.  I'm not going to apologize for not being meek and feeble.  Nowhere in this post will you read anything from me saying "I hate having to pay __ for ___"  I've never complained about anyone's fees.  If I have. . .I would love to see where. 

Where I choose to invest my money has absolutely no bearing on my talent, drive/ambition, or ability.  Now if anyone wants to say I have no "talent" that's fine and that's your opinion.  Saying I'm never going to succeed as a model merely because you don't agree with how I choose to budget for a single shoot. . .is uncalled for. 

Now, IMO, the idea that I'm supposed to just sit back and say nothing while others tell me how much I'm going to fail goes against my upbringing.  Quite frankly I see it as motivation.  Hence I speak.

Amanda Jeanne wrote:
Just to clear things up..

I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my post, simply giving ideas on how to save money and such. Jayne, I think the bottom line is if you can and want to put that money into a photo shoot, nobody is stopping you. I hope you get some time to enjoy your trip as well .

Most people are speaking up because this thread (quite like many others) has turned into models vs. photographers. Which I think is incredibly stupid, because a lot of us use this site to work with each other's talents. But some models (and possibly photographers, though I haven't seen it in this thread) are certainly burning their own bridges by the kinds of things they say on here.

Thanks Amanda.  I hope I do too for that matter! 

Unfortunately a lot of photogs "input" has stifled responses from models.  It was not supposed to turn into an us -vs- them kind of thing.  Unfortunately it did.  I was hoping to have models "share" what they go through. . .just like the photographers did on my other post (photog expenses) but instead it just got stuck on my example.  But if it hadn't been me. . .it would have been someone else eventually.  So I'm happy to be a martyr in that regard. 

Doug Harvey wrote:
In closing people. It's time that both sides get a grip on what it cost to be in this industry. If it is what you dreamed of or have a desire for, then this is the cost and it does not make models or photographers any better than the other.

DHP

I absolutely agree.  Both sides. . .hell. . .there really shouldn't be "sides" to begin with.  That's the main issue: the Us -vs- Them mentality.

Shan L Photography wrote:
And a $1000 job will take ya hair out if you don't know how to properly take care of it either. If you are looking to have this "weave job" applied ONLY for a photo shoot, bonding won't take ya hair out. It takes YEARS AND YEARS of improperly applying bonding to take your hair out. I just don't see why you list your $1,000 weave job as a requisite of a typical photo shoot, when it's really something you want.

It was an example, and I didn't say it was a "requisite of a typical photo shoot" I said that was an expense for the shoot I'm planning in DC.  I tried to make that clear when I said "Here's my list for a shoot I'm planning in DC this June."  Guess my choice of words was confusing.

I see it as no different than a client requesting me to do a shoot and he/she wants me to get a haircut but I don't want to use their stylist for it.  Smaller scale. . .same scenario.

Shan L Photography wrote:
LOL, geezus. So you mean to tell me the MILLIONS of women (even celebs) who get extensions applied for under $1,000 are "half stepping?" Let's get real here, I don't care if someone applies an entire horses azz to their head, buy gucci and wear it from head to toe, fly in the most expensive photographer...if ya don't know how to model or pose, or even know what field of modeling you're looking to go into....the whole point is mute. But hey, your money, your shoot, your life. It's just My opinion, and like azzholes, everyone has one. LOL Good Luck with your shoot.

I could be totally wrong, but you can spot a bad weave on celebs (Tony Braxton, "Breathe Again" video and Diana Ross' early days) and most (celebs) nowadays don't pay under $1000 for theirs.  Hell. . .I've worn bad weave with all kinds of tracks showing and that's just plain tacky.  I've seen bonded hair done here and for the most part seeing all that glue is just as tacky if not moreso than seeing tracks.  Lumps and bumps from combed over tracks are just as bad.  That's just my opinion about it.  I want what I want, and I don't want to have my images PS'd to death to hide my "hair's imperfections."  Can you wrap your mind around that?  If not, think of it as less work for the photographer.  I know you can wrap your mind around that! 

You are absolutely right.  If you can't pose worth shit. . .the bulk of your images will be shit.  But a good photographer IMO knows how to provide some direction also.  And not to be a snob, but I believe the word you were looking for is moot, not mute.

I do appreciate your opinion, although I don't agree with it.

Diana Moffitt wrote:
I am lucky if I get 4 good pics out of one shoot to put in my real modeling portfolio.  I have participated in a crap load of test shoots and in my agency book....guess how many pics they have chosen??  10!!!

So why am I going to pay for a photog not approved by my agency?!  No way.....

Would you ever expect to get a free shoot with someone?  Just because a photographer is not "approved" through your agency doesn't mean they aren't worth the money.

Hamza wrote:
Are we still talking about this shit? 

It costs me less than $35.00 to shoot a model TFP/CD ANYTIME I shoot....

That's actual money for my Red Bull, Parking, and Tolls...

Everything else is PAID FOR ALREADY!!!

If I stayed home I would not spend any money, if I shoot TFP, that's what it would cost me.

Anyother photographer who claims more than $100 and shoots digital is a liar or a fool or he had to pay for a Studio for THAT day...

Its not the actual expense but what comes after.  If TFP you have to edit and produce a cd-r which for me takes several more hours of time.  However this
is getting silly we all have expenses.  If you don't want to shoot then don't if you do be prepared to spend a few $$$

Tony Lawrence wrote:
Its not the actual expense but what comes after.  If TFP you have to edit and produce a cd-r which for me takes several more hours of time.  However this
is getting silly we all have expenses.  If you don't want to shoot then don't if you do be prepared to spend a few $$$

If you bracket, you will not have to EDIT!  Shoot your ass off and bracket like crazy!

I spend ZERO hours editing my images, you spend 4 hours editing your images, not the models problem...

You spent $160,000 on your education for photography, I spent $0.00, not the models problem...

And you said it, if you are not willing to spend a little money, stay home on the couch, that won't cost you a dime... oh wait, how much was that couch? How much does one spend on cable? How much is the rent/mortgage?  It's easy for anyone to get STUPID!!!

Hamza wrote:
It's easy for anyone to get STUPID!!!

That was soooo BEAUTIFULLY put!  In my world, "stupid is funny".

Hamza wrote:
I spend ZERO hours editing my images, you spend 4 hours editing your images, not the models problem...

You spent $160,000 on your education for photography, I spent $0.00, not the models problem...

It's only a problem if the model doesn't get what he/she can use.

Jayne Jones wrote:
Good day to all!

I've asked photographers how much a photo shoot costs them.  Primarily b/c there seemed to be an aweful lot of grumbling about model no shows.  Considering the fact that there are photographer no shows as well. . .

This will be tough for photographers to do, but put on your listening ears for this one. . .you've already had your say. This is for the models this time. 

Models:
How much does a photo shoot cost YOU?  I asked photographers this question:

So based on that, how much does it cost you as a model under the same circumstances?  If you had to hire an MUA, do your own hair and bring your own clothes. . .how much would you be out??

Let's have it.


I'll go first:
I'm planning a shoot in DC this June.  Here's my line by line.
Hair $1000 (extensions, done "right" are expensive)
Clothes $350
MUA fees $150
Travel expenses (I don't live in DC) $1000
So just me ends up being $2500 for that one shoot.  Going into it.  None of the things I've mentioned are already bought.  None of the things I've mentioned will I "need" after this shoot (except maybe the hair).  The makeup won't be reused.  The clothes won't be reused.  Kind of can't reuse a plane ticket and hotel room without paying for them all over again.  So my immediate expenses for that single shoot end up being $2500, not including what I'm paying the photographer.

Anyone else care to share??

Sweety, you are paying out of the @ss for a photo shoot that could be done for much cheaper. No offense, I'm just speaking up and being honest.  Good extentions done right does not cost $1000, you must have money to burn.  The clothing doesn't have to cost $350 either if you're a good bargain shopper.  The outfits will only be used once for the photo shoot, unless you intend on wearing them else wear...then the cloths become an investment and worth $350.  A MUA at $150 is a reasonable price though, about the average cost.  Travel to any destination inside the U.S. (unless you are a internationalm traveler from another country) should not cost $1000...not even for a round trip unless you were booking a flight at last minute on random.  If you're planning your shoot for June, then why is your travel expense so high?  Even taking cabs in D.. shouldn't put your travel bill up to $1000.  Spenind $2500 on 1 (not 3 or 4) photo shoots is ridiculous.  And you say your photographer expense is not included in the list yet?  WTH.  lol  What do you intend on doing with these photos?  Just placing them in your portfolio?  For that price it isn't worth it.  I hope you intend on selling the images from the shoot to a magazine or make a calendar to sell or something.  Because to me you are just wasting hard earned money like it literally grows on trees, when a quality photo shoot can be done for less than half of what you added up.  For $2500 I better end up featured in someone's major magazine or something. lol