Model
shimmer
Posts: 680
Arlington, Texas, US
Either profession in this industry takes a fairly substantial investment.
For models, it's that their look is constantly evolving to keep up with the demands of the industry. It's important to maintain the appearance and all aspects of it...
For photographers, equipment must be upgraded, and the overhead adds up.
I don't think it's fair for either group to knock the investment the other has to make...
Model
Amanda Jeanne
Posts: 135
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Generally I keep my mouth shut when it comes to threads like these (or well, most threads). But I have to speak up.
A lot of these major expenses are easy to get around. If you love love love the gym you are at, or going to the spa, or designer clothes than for all means, work your butt off and treat yourself! But if you are doing these things simply for a shoot, and considering them "modeling expenses" than there is a bit of a problem.
Some expenses that I (and other "co-models") have gotten around:
Hair - Girls! You are models, and you are wanting to keep up with the current "look", no? Many companies are constantly HIRING girls to show off the new spring/summer fall/winter hair collections. On a monthly basis I do this type of work and not only do I get paid and sometimes get prints, I also have had some awesome hairstyles and helps to show off some diversity. For those not wanting dramatic changes, still go to those same companies who are always holding workshops and classes to teach students how to trim hair, give highlights, even out colour, etc etc. You have expert hairstylists working on your hair. Not to mention the other benefits of these same artists introducing you to people in the fashion industry. Look in to workng with Redken, Aveda, L'Oreal, upscale salons, the list can go on and on.. this is honestly some of my most enjoyed work. I have not paid for even a trim in 2 years. A lot of times you get to know the stylists and they might do you a favour or two!
Gym membership - My way of avoiding it? I work in a gym, and my apartment building also has a 24 hour gym free to use by all residents. There are 2 gym memberships there for the cost of $0 and its not out of my way to get to either. Besides this, you can jog or bike outside. You can get a $10 pilates DVD. You can get some free weights for about $5-15 each at walmart. Go swimming at a community centre. Walk to work.
Eating healthy - Now another model I know works at a health food store, getting great discounts. As for myself, I know food can be quite the expense but I try my best to "pack lunches" instead of buying food when I'm out, and just looking for good deals at supermarkets. You really don't need $50 worth of protein powder. Whether I was a model or not, food would be an expense.
Wardrobe - Borrow from friends? Find stores that will lend you clothing for the shoot. Sometimes this takes quite a bit of hunting and for whatever reason they are more likely to do this at the photographer's request, but it does happen.
I know there's more but I will continue to ramble on and on and I feel I am just starting to state the obvious..
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
Jayne Jones wrote:
Alan:
Let me see if I can clear the mud a little.
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
Extensions: First, they may be $1,000 but they are not the cost of most shoots. You put them in once and they last a long time. You benefit from them for not just one shoot, but from many plus you have them in real life. Unless a photographer asked you to put them in, it was your choice. If he requested them and you weren't already putting them in, he should probably pay for them, but normally a photographer buys the look you have or has a stylist do something temporarily. I have a problem with you calling the $1,000 a normal cost of a single shoot. Actually no. I do not have extensions now. I donât plan on getting them until this shoot. The shoot is my idea, so I canât very well expect someone else to pay for the look Iâm âcreating.â? Now, if I choose to keep the extensions in after the shoot. . .thatâs one thing. I probably will, but that still does not change the fact that they are being bought specifically for this shoot. I say that b/c I donât have them now. In the event I choose to take them out, I will have to pay to have them put back in. Considering the cost of their upkeep. . .I will really have to struggle with that one. I like the idea of having variety, so I may or may not keep them. Either way. . .donât have them now and thatâs the look that is âwantedâ?. Just because it is me what difference does it make? Technically since I am the one putting the shoot together. . .Iâm the client.
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
$350 for wardrobe. We don't spend $350 for a normal, paid client shot for wardrobe. The thing about wardrobe is that you may want it and it probably is a legitimate cost of being a model, but that $350 doesn't attribute to the single shoot. You continue to own the clothes and you can wear them for other projects. That is called amortizing the cost of the clothes over their use. So while a model is paying for wardrobe, clothes are not a throwaway. Personally, I donât think it would bode well for me as a model to re-use ensembles from shoot to shoot. In my port, that would look like I have only had one shoot. Itâs called variety Alan. You know this. Sure the clothes âcouldâ? be used again. In reality will they be. . .probably not.
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
$1,000 for travel from SC to DC. I presume that you are staying at the Waldorf Astoria in a deluxe suite and flew first class with a rented Mercedes. I can buy a five day package to DC from L.A. with airfare and hotel for $650. You are an eight hour car ride away. If you choose to do a TFP in DC, then there is a cost for you to get there. It is your choice though. If you are doing a paid shoot, then your expenses should be covered. I live in Kansas City. Have you checked prices for hotels in the DC area? They start at $100/night and thatâs at Best Western/Motel 6. Why??? Because itâs DC. Multiply that times three b/c I have to find a location. Iâm not from there after all. Round trip plane ticket is $400. Rental car unlimited miles for two days on the weekend is close to $400. And Iâm getting a discount.
Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
$150 for a Make-up artist (I presume that you are not suggesting that you spend that much for make-up for a single shoot). If you are actually hiring your own make-up artist and paying that amount, then I am fine with the cost. Do you actually hire a make-up artist for every shoot? Yes, b/c believe it or not. . .I donât wear makeup every day. Unless you want to count lip gloss. So, yes I hire a MUA every shoot. Her name is Rachel. However, for DC I want a specific MUA. I saw her port and I want her talent. I have to pay her for it. Thatâs business.
Alan. . .sweetie. . .honeybunny. . .I never take your feedback as flaming. Youâre a professional. 
I concur. We all have costs. I just want the other side of it out there. I donât see photographers as adversaries, but as a necessity. Hell if anything my career is dependent upon photographers. And MUAâs and Stylists.
True, this is a unique circumstance b/c I am new and I have âspecificâ? things I want to do with my port. I will have to pay for that. Itâs great if/when I can get MUAâs and Photographers to work TFCD, but I never EVER approach anyone asking for handouts. Everyone needs to eat. So this is my reality for the shoot Iâm planning in June. My next few shoots until then. . .wonât be nearly that much. But the way I see it, if I want to be serious and if my goal is to ultimately be a professional model. . .paying $2500 out of my own pocket may in fact become an every shoot reality if Iâm the one calling the shots like I will be when I go to DC. If this is the case then what you seem to be describing are "client" costs that you shoulder because you seem to be acting in the greater capacity of client, and lesser capacity of "model".
Client costs.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Amanda Jeanne wrote:
Whether I was a model or not, food would be an expense. Amanda, that's classic.
I think people forget that every one needs food, and a dependable car and to pay rent and have their haircut...photographers or models.
Not all photographers eat like Alan (the Ramen-diet).  Eating healthy is not a model-exclusive privilege, and it doesn't cost more to eat healthy, it's just a choice.
You rock. LoL
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
I've been debating on whether to respond to this thread, but here I go...
tanning: 0; natural
eyebrows: 0; I do it myself
MUA: 0;tfp. if the photographer is picking up the bill, it's unbeknownst to me
gas: to Detroit, $40; I drive an SUV
car note: I will not include: I did not buy it for modeling
hair color: $60/6 weeks. As for all the products, etc, I would have bought them anyway
Proactiv: ehhh, $50/month, but I would probably buy it anyway
nails: 0; because mine are natural
Clothing: I TRY to buy clothes for shoots, $150. Sometimes I can't
If I want to add other stuff...
laptop: I'd have bought that anyway
food: a girls gotta eat..
mmmm....I cant' think of anything else.
So, basically my costs consist of clothing and gas...
I'm sorry if this seems to validate many photographers claims.
I don't like to see models or photographers inflate their expenses.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
While everyone has made great points I think we all can agree that being a photographer is in general more expensive. Yes models have expenses but most
of the models I know haven't taken classes bought $1,000 or more cameras and
all that goes with them. Rent on studios, etc. All this and then have to almost
beg attractive women to let them shoot them. If a model doesn't get good or
great images from a photographer who's to blame? The photographer shoulders
the blame. Most of the models here have no problem getting talented people to
work with them for free. However when a photographer wants to work with a
model its write those e-mails and wait for a response if you get one and hope that
she shows. Yes there are a few models here who spend money, time and put forth
serious effort to shoot but they are far outnumbered by those who don't want to
invest a nickle into themselves. They expect the photographer to pay for everything. I've even read in some threads where if a agency likes you they spring
for everything and this is also expected from the photographer. I would also add
that many of the expenses that models have are expenses that a women would
have to keep herself together. Hairstyling, makeup as well as clothing. To be frank most of the models I've found that reply to these threads are serious.
They show up and are responsible. They don't mind investing in themselves.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
One thing I'd like to point out, and I may be wrong but....
photographers seem to incur the most up front expenses.
As a model, we buy clothing, hair and makeup items continually.
Now, while this initially may not compare to the cost of your camera and lights, consider the fact that $150 every two weeks on clothing alone is $3600 a year. How much does your camera depreciate per year? In 4 years, theoretically, we have spent $14,400.
Photographers, you spent a shit load up front. We haven't. But in the long run, we will catch up because your equipment will last you a year or two, at the least.
Photographer
Andrew Fortson
Posts: 212
Los Angeles, California, US
just because someone decided to throw in prices for modelling classes, it's costing me $35,000 for my photography education. and i'll stop there, because that pretty much kills anything you're spending.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
::takes deep breath::
chants " I will not get too involved, I will not get too involved..."
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Angel Tara wrote:
chants " I will not get too involved, I will not get too involved..." Angel, you don't need to. Everyone here loves you.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Angel Tara wrote:
Now, while this initially may not compare to the cost of your camera and lights, consider the fact that $150 every two weeks on clothing alone is $3600 a year. I buy clothes, too! I don't shoot naked, although I have been asked...
Now...shouldn't the client or the project provides your wardrobe?
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
Country Girl WV wrote:
Hi there,Yes you always hear about the photographers complain about models.I drove 10 hrs to a shoot.and The photographer left after seeing my husband,He said he was to scary Looking.Instead of asking questions or anything he just left.
Whats up with that. Maybe he really is scary looking.
Photographer
Doug Vosler Photo Arts
Posts: 191
Breezy Point, Minnesota, US
If you are Paying $1000 for travel, you are getting ripped off ir need to travel cheaper.
If you are paying $1000 for hair, you need to see a shrink.
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25351
Santa Barbara, California, US
I just wanted to say that as a photographer, if a local model is finding it too expensive for clothes and makeup, we could always shoot infrared (as in film) nudes. don't have to worry about a tan, or makeup, hair or clothing etc. just bring your angry and/or impish inner child (but no escorts) and viola we can attempt to make art!
Model
Angie Borras
Posts: 1933
Kissimmee, Florida, US
lll wrote:
I buy clothes, too! I don't shoot naked, although I have been asked...
Now...shouldn't the client or the project provides your wardrobe? but when there is no client and is just photographer and model the model is the one who obviously going to provide the wardrobe.
Model
Angie Borras
Posts: 1933
Kissimmee, Florida, US
I hate the fact that photographers think they are better than models and think that we are just pretty little stick that just stand there. If you are in the modeling industry you need to understand that a model also invest in this as well.
Photographer
Doug Vosler Photo Arts
Posts: 191
Breezy Point, Minnesota, US
Intensity wrote:
I hate the fact that photographers think they are better than models and think that we are just pretty little stick that just stand there. If you are in the modeling industry you need to understand that a model also invest in this as well. I hate the fact that you just generalized what you seem to know photographers think. I've never thought of a model as a pretty little sitck that stands there.
The modeling industry as a whole is far different than what you see on modelmayhem and the like. Models PAY to build their portfolios, so that they can then take that portfolio and get paid work. It's kind of like going to college to get a good job. Unfortunately for models, the government doesn;t give financial aid for portfolio building... but that's why there is America's Next Top Model 
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
lll wrote:
I buy clothes, too! I don't shoot naked, although I have been asked...
Now...shouldn't the client or the project provides your wardrobe? 
yes, and that is what I look for. But I said theoretically.
A client isn't a factor in tfp. If there was a client, neither model or photographer would be complaining.
gosh, I really didn't want to get into this. And here I am...LOL
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Look, I love you photographers. You do your business, and some of you are Gods to me.
Everyone has different business perspectives. Let stop worrying about "the other person" and worry about ourselves!
Photographer
Shan L Photography
Posts: 131
Los Angeles, California, US
dncphotos wrote:
I'll be damned to hell if Im going to spend $1000 on some hair extentions and think about taking them out a week after.
That there is surely a waste of money. I think some price flucuation is going on with that one.
I use to get added weave to my hair awhile back and cost about $150 for a "good" weave job. You need to do your research on the w hair part because you can save yourself a good $700-$850. Especially if you don't think you will even keep them in.
Unless you love wasting money LOL I'd go even further and say someone's LYING. I wanna see this weave job when it's finished...lol! But some beauticians DO rip off people who know absolutely nothing about hair extensions. Hell, if someone was willin to pay $1,000 for a weave, I'd do it too.
Photographer
Andrew Gettler
Posts: 126
Pueblo, Colorado, US
All of this makes me laugh. Simply because everyone has costs one way or another.
Yet, a cost I believe hasn't been talked about yet is something that should be taken very seriously.
Oppertunity Cost.
Basicly if I spend all morning setting up for a shoot. Than the model flakes on me, Not only does it throughly piss me off. But I have lost all of the time I took to set up, now I have to tear down. Not only does it put stress on my materials (Backdrops/props/whatever) It puts unneeded stress on my body. Ok you may laugh at that one and well Im a Disabled Vet. I can tolerate the pains when I get a job completed and such. But if I put up with them for no reason. Very Iritating.
Now, If the photographer flakes. The model may lose a couple hours or such. But, they still gonna look Great, Still can go out on the town, and very much easier for them to carry on about their day. I figure wait half hour tops and if no show by than and no call. Bail. Yet, Because of the effort of sets I wait much long.Still the model only had minimal activity.
If you choose to pay a gym membership and go, that is a lifestyle you decieded to take. That isn't added into a shoot cost unless you need to be a very spesific shape for the shoot. That is personal. As well as other things models do. If you are a shoe aholic, you are gonna buy shoes reguardless of a shoot or not. Plain and simple. Unless it is something very spesific exactly for the shoot. and no black boot or other comon footwear does not fit in that catigory.
There are always exceptions to everything. Except Oppertunity Cost.
What am I missing out on by doing or not doing this? You flake on me, I lose half to three quarters of a day. And well simply enough you never will work with me. So you lost the Oppertunity for images I would have generated.
Just like If I ever by chance flaked on a model I lost the opertunity to use that model. Maybe for good, or maybe until something can be set.
Yet back again. Everyone Can Always Make Up Some Kind of Expense to Tell the Others About.
Basicly. Work together or don't work together. pay the fee or don't pay the fee. Everybody needs to shut their stink wholes and get over the whole money thing.
Because iether you have it, or you don't. Iether you are willing to spend it or you arn't. Everyone needs to just DEAL WITH IT ALREADY!!
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
Opportunity costs: the "costs" you have incurred because you could have spent that time doing something POSSIBLY more profitable.
Sunk costs. Cost you have incurred, and spent the money on, that are in the past. No getting it back.
I'm going to bed...
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Angel Tara wrote:
I'm going to bed... Goodnight sweet one.
Model
Angel Tara
Posts: 2214
Charlotte, North Carolina, US
lll wrote:
Goodnight sweet one. *big smile*
That's why I love you...
good night!
Photographer
Andrew Gettler
Posts: 126
Pueblo, Colorado, US
Angel Tara wrote:
Opportunity costs: the "costs" you have incurred because you could have spent that time doing something POSSIBLY more profitable.
Sunk costs. Cost you have incurred, and spent the money on, that are in the past. No getting it back.
I'm going to bed... From Dictionary.com
Opportunity Cost
The cost of an alternative that must be forgone in order to pursue a certain action. Put another way, the benefits you could have received by taking an alternative action.
Sunk Cost
A cost that has been incurred and cannot be reversed. Also referred to as "stranded cost."
----------
your funny.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Intensity wrote:
but when there is no client and is just photographer and model the model is the one who obviously going to provide the wardrobe. Don't assume too much. If you are really doing testing for an agency, you don't need anything fancy that anything that normal people would not own. You have t-shirt, some simple skirts and jeans, right? And if the photographer is testing for something fun, wardrobe would be provided either by a stylist or a new designer (at least that's how I work).
If you are shooting for your book for commercial modeling, hardly anytime would you need to buy very specific clothing.
The only things that an agency model needs after she is signed is to 1) stay in shape (people should stay in shape anyway) 2) eat well (again, apply to everyone) 3) get portfolio worthy images, which most of the time need to be paid for and 4) pay for compcards etc.
This whole cost argument is so pointless to the "real world", it's almost absurd. It's not about cost, it's about value proposition.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Angel Tara wrote:
That's why I love you... Ditto.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Intensity wrote:
I hate the fact that photographers think they are better than models and think that we are just pretty little stick that just stand there. If you are in the modeling industry you need to understand that a model also invest in this as well. This is just blatantly offensive. I don't know which modeling "industry" you are in, but I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
1) You generalize. Not all photographers disrespect models. That said, however, I have no problem disrespecting diva-aspirants, who think that having pretty faces mean they have more entitlement than the rest. In fact, I respect the word "models" enough that I find it disrespectful for a lot of aspirants on MM to call themselves models.
2) Barrier to entry. The barrier of entry into serious photography is much higher than modeling. In fact, the barriers of entry into real acting, dancing and singing are all higher than modeling. (I can hear Stacy marching in soon). Why? Because the cost of entry is more than genetic "talents" (in fact, this whole "talent" thing can be another debate altogether), it involves practicing and continuously refining the craft to the point where blood drips from the forehead, vocal cords broken, and legs hurt. None of that is required of a model, unless you are an Art model in Lapis' caliber. But that's a totally different story.
Professional models understand that. In fact, the first thing that one of the agency owners here tells the newly signed is that "your replacement is right there", while pointing at the wall of compcards. She tells her models that they are fortunate to be born with good genes (which is the first barrier of entry for modeling). Her models are also easiest to work with, the most appreciative and the best-prepared in every single interaction I have ever had with them. Guess what, they are also the ones that get the most work. I have never heard them complaining. They know the answer, they think I charge too little. But then, these are real-world, working models, who have been in magazines and catalogs, what do they know, right?
Notice I never even mentioned any monetary cost? Why? It's completely irrelevant.
Photographer
Mark Brummitt
Posts: 40527
Clarkston, Michigan, US
Angel Tara wrote:
I've been debating on whether to respond to this thread, but here I go...
tanning: 0; natural
eyebrows: 0; I do it myself
MUA: 0;tfp. if the photographer is picking up the bill, it's unbeknownst to me
gas: to Detroit, $40; I drive an SUV
car note: I will not include: I did not buy it for modeling
hair color: $60/6 weeks. As for all the products, etc, I would have bought them anyway
Proactiv: ehhh, $50/month, but I would probably buy it anyway
nails: 0; because mine are natural
Clothing: I TRY to buy clothes for shoots, $150. Sometimes I can't
If I want to add other stuff...
laptop: I'd have bought that anyway
food: a girls gotta eat..
mmmm....I cant' think of anything else.
So, basically my costs consist of clothing and gas...
I'm sorry if this seems to validate many photographers claims.
I don't like to see models or photographers inflate their expenses. Proactive 35.90 a month. If you are payin more talk to me.
60.00 every six weeks for hair coloring? Thats a great price. Where do you go for that?
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Jayne Jones wrote:
Good day to all!
I've asked photographers how much a photo shoot costs them. Primarily b/c there seemed to be an aweful lot of grumbling about model no shows. Considering the fact that there are photographer no shows as well. . .
This will be tough for photographers to do, but put on your listening ears for this one. . .you've already had your say. This is for the models this time.
Models:
How much does a photo shoot cost YOU? I asked photographers this question:
So based on that, how much does it cost you as a model under the same circumstances? If you had to hire an MUA, do your own hair and bring your own clothes. . .how much would you be out??
Let's have it.
I'll go first:
I'm planning a shoot in DC this June. Here's my line by line.
Hair $1000 (extensions, done "right" are expensive)
Clothes $350
MUA fees $150
Travel expenses (I don't live in DC) $1000
So just me ends up being $2500 for that one shoot. Going into it. None of the things I've mentioned are already bought. None of the things I've mentioned will I "need" after this shoot (except maybe the hair). The makeup won't be reused. The clothes won't be reused. Kind of can't reuse a plane ticket and hotel room without paying for them all over again. So my immediate expenses for that single shoot end up being $2500, not including what I'm paying the photographer.
Anyone else care to share?? Jayne, Thanks for starting this. I have been reading this thread you started and it's very educational. There are photographers who whine and complain about "the cost" of doing business ... and then there are those photographers who understand the importance of investing in ones business without trying to direct a guilt trip towards models they work with.
Having worked on stage as an actor, and musician, I understand the investment that anyone must make in order to succeed. It's all negotiable, but usually the one who pays the most for a shoot is the one who legally owns the rights. So by paying for all these things you have listed, you are "owning" the images, correct? I would love to work with more models like you who believe in making the investment it takes to get what you want!
One question I have is why are you traveling so far to work with this photographer in D.C?? It would save you a lot of money if you were to find someone to work with closer to you, wouldn't it? His/her work must be great!
About "no shows" ... I've only had that happen at the initial first meeting that I require before doing a shoot. Then recently I had my first "no show" for an event where I needed her there to sign pictures. However I had 14 models booked, and no one noticed that I was missing her. The reason was that her grandfather died, and she needed to travel to Canada to help her family deal with that sad event. She had also left her cell phone at home on accident. So I forgive her for not being able to make it to the event. I am very understanding as long as people are honest with me. Things happen! But when it comes to investing in yourself, don't listen to anyones whining and complaining ... just do the best you can!
Best wishes!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
spyro2122 wrote:
ooohhh here is another one, photgraphers that complain about your posing saying it sucks and then tell you you are hairy and asked if you have shaved in the past three days, when you shaved that morning. or the problemsom pimples or bloating and you can only fit in the "fat pants" cause nothing else fits and you are cramping too much to care about it. A good photographer will help you with suggestions if you are not getting the poses he/she wants. At least I do! I also don't mind body hair, and I know plenty of great poses to hide the bloating. Besides ... there is always photo shop! LOL
Model
Just AJ
Posts: 3478
Round Rock, Texas, US
Shan L Photography wrote:
My personal opinion? You're spending wayy to much money to be an amateur model. You may get "professional" looking images with average poses, still wouldn't fly. Have you tried local photographers in your area? And since you've NEVER worn extensions, why not go a cheaper route or since this is a ONE TIME thing, do the "hair bonding" deal, which is waaaay cheaper. I just don't see why you're spending all this money on a photo shoot, lol! It's almost retarded to me... I've worn extensions before. I had weave put in my entire head by tracks and that's not the route I want to go this time. Bonding if not done right (and notice I don't live in NYC or Detroit or Atlanta) to have it done "right" will take your hair out if not properly cared for. And you get what you pay for with extensions. What I'm going to do is one step down from the best there is (strand by strand and virtually undetectible. . .the stylists have to be "certified" in order to use the technique I'm paying for), and that's how I do my thing. I don't half step.
Model
Just AJ
Posts: 3478
Round Rock, Texas, US
lll wrote:
Do you fly First-Class and rent Mercedes?
Jayne, what's the point of these posts? What are the points you are trying to prove?
Everyone has costs of doing business. But the cost has nothing to do with the value they provide. What is the cost for a photographer to sit and think of a concept for a client until blood drips from his/her forehead? What price the years of training, pain, frustration and honing his/her craft? What prices his/her time?
You said you are new, and I can see that you are a really sweet girl. But when it comes to work, just look at how things are done. And look at the value of every one in the industry and what makes them valuable. Cost, ultimately, is irrelevant. Even if one has spent a zillion dollars on whatever, if he/she presents no solution to me to solve a problem, the value of that someone to me is still worthless. No, not flying first class. Go to expedia.com and check it yourself if you don't believe me. Kansas City Missouri to Washington DC round trip is about $300
The point: That was addressed in my OP.
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Jayne Jones wrote:
The point: That was addressed in my OP. Ok, let's hypothetically say that your point is now proven and agreed.
So what?
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Shan L Photography wrote:
My personal opinion? You're spending wayy to much money to be an amateur model. You may get "professional" looking images with average poses, still wouldn't fly. Have you tried local photographers in your area? And since you've NEVER worn extensions, why not go a cheaper route or since this is a ONE TIME thing, do the "hair bonding" deal, which is waaaay cheaper. I just don't see why you're spending all this money on a photo shoot, lol! It's almost retarded to me... Wow! I'm glad to hear a female photographer speak up like that! I would not go as far as calling it retarded, but it could be done for much less money. There are some models who have gone to modeling "schools" and even though I discourage models from going that route, I wont make fun of them after they've done it.
I've spent lots of money on things that I have felt was an expensive lesson ... even recently. I always look at it in the positive and don't regret it. It is an investment. It cost money to get educated!
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Lillith Leda wrote:
Hey, don't complain, at least majority of the photographers you (generally speaking) wish to shoot with live on the same continent.
I had to fly 25 hours half way across the world to get to do TFP with photographers I admire. My plane ticket cost a fortune, the lingerie (yes itty bitty things can cost more than outfits that cover your whole ass) cost yet again way more than one should pay, and they were bought to be shot in once as they are distinctive. I'm a shoe-aholic so wonderful excuse to indulge in, shoes for shoots. Yes the make-up again is stupidly expensive when you're picky about which brand you put on your face, and then staying in a foreign country with a currency that is piss poor against the exchange rate... So it all amounts to a shitload of money.
But it was my choice, I'm happy I did it and... my mother taught me it's rude and improper to speak about the cost of things!
We're all mad to be spending so much money, but we love what we do, don't we?! Your mom is a very wise woman!
Photographer
lll
Posts: 12295
Seattle, Washington, US
Patrick Walberg wrote:
I've spent lots of money on things that I have felt was an expensive lesson ... even recently. I always look at it in the positive and don't regret it. It is an investment. It cost money to get educated! There are better ways and cheaper ways to get educated, like college (in comparison to the crap that "modeling schools" teach, college is dirt cheap).
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
lll wrote:
This is just blatantly offensive. I don't know which modeling "industry" you are in, but I have no idea what the heck you are talking about.
1) You generalize. Not all photographers disrespect models. That said, however, I have no problem disrespecting diva-aspirants, who think that having pretty faces mean they have more entitlement than the rest. In fact, I respect the word "models" enough that I find it disrespectful for a lot of aspirants on MM to call themselves models.
2) Barrier to entry. The barrier of entry into serious photography is much higher than modeling. In fact, the barriers of entry into real acting, dancing and singing are all higher than modeling. (I can hear Stacy marching in soon). Why? Because the cost of entry is more than genetic "talents" (in fact, this whole "talent" thing can be another debate altogether), it involves practicing and continuously refining the craft to the point where blood drips from the forehead, vocal cords broken, and legs hurt. None of that is required of a model, unless you are an Art model in Lapis' caliber. But that's a totally different story.
Professional models understand that. In fact, the first thing that one of the agency owners here tells the newly signed is that "your replacement is right there", while pointing at the wall of compcards. She tells her models that they are fortunate to be born with good genes (which is the first barrier of entry for modeling). Her models are also easiest to work with, the most appreciative and the best-prepared in every single interaction I have ever had with them. Guess what, they are also the ones that get the most work. I have never heard them complaining. They know the answer, they think I charge too little. But then, these are real-world, working models, who have been in magazines and catalogs, what do they know, right?
Notice I never even mentioned any monetary cost? Why? It's completely irrelevant. Very well said...
Photographer
American Glamour
Posts: 38813
Detroit, Michigan, US
So, I think she got you people talking. I was surprised to see the replies.
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 45475
San Juan Bautista, California, US
Intensity wrote:
I hate the fact that photographers think they are better than models and think that we are just pretty little stick that just stand there. If you are in the modeling industry you need to understand that a model also invest in this as well. Photographers with big egos are no better than models with big egos. Either way, the egos get in the way!
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Eating healthy is not a model-exclusive privilege, and it doesn't cost more to eat healthy, it's just a choice. 
