Kelly Kooper wrote:
Hi guys,

Now the obvious answer to this is no and how ridiculous for someone to assume that because you take on a sexy persona in photos, you also have little to no morals. Because I've recently done a topless shoot and been very proud of the photos, I'm obviously against this idea but I'm of a few in my group of friends unfortunately. Although they say they don't feel that way about me, I've shown them other models who have done similar work to mine and they're first thoughts were 'Yeah, she looks like the type to sleep around'. I have a few questions on this. The first being to the togs - In your personal life, would you think twice about dating a model that shot nude images? And to the models - do you, in any way, look down on girls that have done topless/nude photos? Please be honest, I won't be offended. I'm genuinely curious about where people stand on this.

  Kelly

its not about being nude, its about how you pull it off. honestly i can understand how your shots would give people the idea that youre a slut. Youre doing softcore porn and you seem to enjoy it. Take a photo like kate moss' topless photos though, and no one would think she is a slut, because its a totally different genre and it has a totally different vibe.

now what pisses me off is when people cant tell the difference between art nude and glamour/erotic/pornographic nude. or glamour swimsuit and fashion swimsuit. its amazing how many people see a girl in a swimsuit in a non erotic pose making a non erotic expression and think "shes a whore!" come on you see that on the beach!!!

ps i love how you ask the togs if they would ever date a model who does nudes...i personally have never dated one and the idea sickens me...i HAVE dated models though...because you know they come in both gender...so do "togs"

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:
The first thing is there is no such thing as a "Tog."  You are going to find yourself on the wrong side of a lot of photographers if you use the term.  I have no idea why models think they can use it.  It is actually offensive to some.  But that wasn't a bash.  It has just been something that has entered our vocabulary, ONLY ON THE NET and needs to be nipped in the bud.  If you said that on a mainstream shoot you would be thought of as very unprofessional and would probably not find yourself working with that photographer again.

Second, you are making an issue over nothing.  I would have no problem dating a nude model.  The industry is about art.  Do you think that Meg Ryan would have trouble getting a date because she has done a nude scene?

The important thing is to express yourself in the ways you want to.  If the guy you like doesn't like you because of your modeling, then he probably isn't the right guy for you anyhow.  The shots you have posted are tasteful and artistic.

I guess I am telling you not to worry about it.  The sky isn't going to fall because you have done a topless shot.

That is news to me, I didn't realise tog was considered so inappropriate. As you said yourself, it is netspeak and I don't think I've ever used it once vocally but typically, everything is being shortened and photographer was of them. I picked up that habit from one of the Australian forums, where absolutely everybody uses 'tog' as a reference to photographers and I ended up being one of the few people writing it out in full. It felt silly so i joined the rest. I will refrain from that if it bothers people so much but like I said, I had no idea.

Thank you for your comments, they make a lot of sense. I had the same opinion of my shots but know others felt different and wondered if many others shared the same sentiment. I won't be losing any sleep over it but it's one of those debates that just fascinates me because no one will ever agree.

Christopher Wright  wrote:
If a man sleeps with as many woman as possible he is considered a stud. I have always hated that double standard.

to who? a man like that is a freaking loser , an std infested skank, and undatable in my book

double standards only exist to the people who think them and judge in that manner

Kelly Kooper wrote:

its not about being nude, its about how you pull it off. honestly i can understand how your shots would give people the idea that youre a slut. Youre doing softcore porn and you seem to enjoy it. Take a photo like Dean Johnson' topless photos though, and no one would think she is a slut, because its a totally different genre and it has a totally different vibe.

now what pisses me off is when people cant tell the difference between art nude and glamour/erotic/pornographic nude. or glamour swimsuit and fashion swimsuit. its amazing how many people see a girl in a swimsuit in a non erotic pose making a non erotic expression and think "shes a whore!" come on you see that on the beach!!!

ps i love how you ask the togs if they would ever date a model who does nudes...i personally have never dated one and the idea sickens me...i HAVE dated models though...because you know they come in both gender...so do "togs"

Yours was actually the response I was expecting so I might as well single it out. First things first - yep, there's a different between glamour nude and fashion nude. I'm not arguing that and of course there's a huge difference. But my question wasn't what category mine fell into. I advertise myself as a glamour model and I'me fine with that. My issue was why people assumed that because a girl takes sexy photos, it would also mean she sleeps around. I don't see how the two relate to each other and THAT was my actual question!

Also when I asked if the photographers would date a model who does nudes, I didn't specify one gender, the question was to either so yes, I'm aware they come in both genders. Why does it sicken you?

my issue was simply with your title. No its not about nudity...theyre judging you because you do glamour, not because you do nudity. If you already knew that you should have made it clear from the get go.

Kelly Kooper wrote:
That is news to me, I didn't realise tog was considered so inappropriate.

Actually, there have been threads trying to get models to stop using it.  Models are the only ones who refer to photographers as togs.  You don't hear it from photographers, stylists, casting directors, etc.  You are right.  It is a netspeak term used by models only.  When you see a photographer refer to himself as a tog, then it might change, but it never happens.

The problem is that the net and the real world do meet.  But not a big deal.  I just like to discourage the use of the term.

I love your work.  Keep doing it.  You are a great model.

Christopher Wright  wrote:
Who cares what other people think? Are they tastefully done? Are you happy with how thw images came out? If they were done artistically and you love them then to hell with everyone else. To me a woman can never be a slut. If a man sleeps with as many woman as possible he is considered a stud. I have always hated that double standard.

I always thought that too Chris And thanks for the compliment, you're sweet! I personally think they are tastefully done and I am very proud of the way they turned out. And because of the way I feel about them, I wanted to use them in my portfolio regardless of the differing opinions but I'm still interested on how others feel. Mostly good, judging from the responses above!

Alan from Aavian Prod wrote:

Actually, there have been threads trying to get models to stop using it.  Models are the only ones who refer to photographers as togs.  You don't hear it from photographers, stylists, casting directors, etc.  You are right.  It is a netspeak term used by models only.  When you see a photographer refer to himself as a tog, then it might change, but it never happens.

The problem is that the net and the real world do meet.  But not a big deal.  I just like to discourage the use of the term.

I love your work.  Keep doing it.  You are a great model.

Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen a photographer use the reference 'tog' so that's a good point. I've only just joined the forums but I should probably back track a little - sounds like I've missed some controversial posts! Thanks also for your comments, I appreciate it most because you seem like the kind of person who is honest to a fault so I know you mean it

Kelly Kooper wrote:
Take a photo like kate moss' topless photos though, and no one would think she is a slut, because its a totally different genre and it has a totally different vibe.

Kate Moss exhibits all the hallmark traits of a real slut... but in her case it has absolutely noting to do with nudity.

Studio36

SKPhoto wrote:
Other than that there is the old school rule - A slut is a woman who will sleep with anybody, a bitch is a woman who will sleep with anybody but you.

LOL. I didn't realize I knew so many bitches.

Kelly Kooper wrote:
I have a few questions on this. The first being to the togs - In your personal life, would you think twice about dating a model that shot nude images?
Kelly

In my case the presumption that I date models is kinda interesting in itself.  I have, but I'm twice+ the age of most models here and any social interactions we might have are either so bizarre due to the age difference that the whether the models have posed nude is moot.

That said, I have only dated models that have modeled nude.  I think that a model who clings to her clothing is a contradiction and should probably be doing something else.  This is a personal view and is certainly influenced by my geographic and cultural location, my background in fashion & art photography and my own life choices.  I just don't have any interest in anyone who is "modest."  I think it's a character flaw.

-Don

Claudette V wrote:
I personally dont think that modeling nude makes anyone a slut or is an indication of not having morals.  I think that words like slut get used a lot by people with hang-ups, by people who feel threatened and/or people who are probably a little insecure.

And possibly jealousy too. Not saying you are jealous. Just adding to your comment.

msonyxorb wrote:
its not about being nude, its about how you pull it off. honestly i can understand how your shots would give people the idea that youre a slut. Youre doing softcore porn and you seem to enjoy it. Take a photo like kate moss' topless photos though, and no one would think she is a slut, because its a totally different genre and it has a totally different vibe.

now what pisses me off is when people cant tell the difference between art nude and glamour/erotic/pornographic nude. or glamour swimsuit and fashion swimsuit. its amazing how many people see a girl in a swimsuit in a non erotic pose making a non erotic expression and think "shes a whore!" come on you see that on the beach!!!

ps i love how you ask the togs if they would ever date a model who does nudes...i personally have never dated one and the idea sickens me...i HAVE dated models though...because you know they come in both gender...so do "togs"

WTF? First off, the OPs photos are not "softcore porn" anymore than yours are. Do you know what softcore porn is? Did they have that at your monastery? You are very judgemental and on to point two.

Why does the idea of dating a photographer "sicken" you? Photographers are people (women or men) the same as anyone else? Why would that sicken you? What about a doctor? or a lawyer? or maybe a painter? Do you only date the "beautiful people"? There's something wrong with this (moralistic) picture. Where's the mirror?

Vito wrote:

WTF? First off, the OPs photos are not "softcore porn" anymore than yours are. Do you know what softcore porn is? Did they have that at your monastery? You are very judgemental and on to point two.

Why does the idea of dating a photographer "sicken" you? Photographers are people (women or men) the same as anyone else? Why would that sicken you? What about a doctor? or a lawyer? or maybe a painter? Do you only date the "beautiful people"? There's something wrong with this (moralistic) picture. Where's the mirror?

Amen brother.

mphot wrote:
We live in a world here in the US where we  have many  open minded individuals and  a minority of those with closed puritan,  narrow minded ethics.  The latter see see things differently because of their miserable guilt ridden lives. They are to be pitied and often need psychiatric help. They don't see beauty in the naked  female form, but lust and fear of  being led astray. That big ruckus about entertainer Janet Jackson showing a nipple on stage& TV  for 2 seconds was  an evidence of a ridiculous happening. It is a very sick society that feels it has to protest over such a minor incident.   If you have a beautiful, youthful body...thank your lucky stars...flaunt it .... and if your friends still think you are a slut..you are in the wrong company. Let them grovel in their pitiful obsessions of envy and guilt.

While I agree with all of this, I find it amusing that several people are responding with (justified!) diatribes about US "morality" when in fact the OP lives in Australia.

D. Brian Nelson wrote:

In my case the presumption that I date models is kinda interesting in itself.  I have, but I'm twice+ the age of most models here and any social interactions we might have are either so bizarre due to the age difference that the whether the models have posed nude is moot.

That said, I have only dated models that have modeled nude.  I think that a model who clings to her clothing is a contradiction and should probably be doing something else.  This is a personal view and is certainly influenced by my geographic and cultural location, my background in fashion & art photography and my own life choices.  I just don't have any interest in anyone who is "modest."  I think it's a character flaw.

-Don

a model who clings to her clothing is a contradiction and should probably be doing something else..it's a character flaw. Wow, what an opinion, I think that's a bit much though not everyone is going to want to shoot nudity for a variety of reasons, you shouldn't just categorize every single model who is modest as a model with character flaw

D. Brian Nelson wrote:
I think that a model who clings to her clothing is a contradiction and should probably be doing something else.  This is a personal view and is certainly influenced by my geographic and cultural location, my background in fashion & art photography and my own life choices.  I just don't have any interest in anyone who is "modest."  I think it's a character flaw.

Oh good, it's not just me