Photographer
Bob4friends
Posts: 207
Marietta, Georgia, US
Nerlande wrote:
oh and thank you to those who said they'd pay me.... Sweetie, I would almost pay you to come to Jamaica with me in 2 weeks ! ...............almost..........
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Yeah... c'mon people... seriously... this question, no offense to the OP, is so much like those MySpace threads that are "Could the person above me model"...
If you rely on internet participants for payments, you'll get your eviction notice in no time.
Isn't the real measure the client who pays you?
The market is the best judge on your value, isn't it?
Funny enough... I increased my fees over the weekend for model/actors portfolios, and today alone, I got phone calls and booked for several thousand dollars.
Not sure how exactly that happened... but it was pretty wild.
Plus a major job that... ah well... it's big!
Model
Lamar Scott
Posts: 223
New York, New York, US
with that said, i'd pay udor in a heartbeat if I had the money. He has an excellent portfolio.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
ehhh...nah..i wouldn't pay nerlande..i might feed her though...
Model
The_N_Word
Posts: 5067
New York, New York, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ehhh...nah..i wouldn't pay nerlande..i might feed her though... and you better feed me well!
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Nerlande wrote:
and you better feed me well! hey..your not playing right!....
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Nerlande wrote:
oh and thank you to those who said they'd pay me.... Would I pay Nerlande to shoot? No way in hell!!! And that's not just because we disagree on so many levels, I actually enjoy our banter. I just have no need to pay ANY models to shoot. I have been doing this for 20 years! I haven't paid a model yet, and don't plan on starting.
Am I worth my Day Rate? Not to the average model who doesn't make a lot of money. That is why I shoot TFP/CD. I am not a greedy man, but I am a businessman.
If a model wants to be shot in a certain way for like a poster she wants to sell, we'll negotiate, I still am not going to charge her what I charge my normal clients. That would just be wrong!
Apparently I am worth my Day Rate to a handful of clients that I continue to do business with for many years...
Come on guys, don't be greedy, give some models a break! Remember, someone gave you a break at one point in your career...
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Lamar Scott wrote:
with that said, i'd pay udor in a heartbeat if I had the money. He has an excellent portfolio. Thanks Lamar;
But you know what... I personally think my portfolio on my website kinda sucks a little... because I have NONE of the current stuff, no commercial work or tearsheets up... totally behind...
Luckily, those were all referrals from people who I work with... and some are surprised that I don't have the other stuff up yet...
Word by mouth is what works best for me... but I do have to update.
There is this major job that came along today, I had to email samples of commercial shoots to them, because they didn't see anything comparable on my website.
But, yeah, thanks for the compliment.
UdoR
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Hamza wrote:
Come on guys, don't be greedy, give some models a break! Remember, someone gave you a break at one point in your career... I agree... and from time to time... when I see something special in a model, I'll help him/her out.
But there are also too many people who just simply expect to shoot them for free... and, as a businessman, I've got to be very selective...
It's easier for someone like you, Hamza, who is already filthy rich, but for a hard working stiff like me... I gave too many freebees... (especially those poor magazines) 
I see it this way... if I have time, all bills are paid and there is enough money left for the rest of the months, and not too many paying gigs in line... I am more "approachable"... but I think you remember those times too... 
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
I'd pay Diana in a hearbeat (and in fact if I can convert a friend who owns an upscale custom boutique in Greenwich to a client, I very well may). I would also purchase a few of Don's prints.
My thoughts....
I pay anyone I ask to work with me. It may not be much, but I pay them something. For example if they want to shoot TFP I will also pay them $50 if it's a short shoot, plus the standard TFP. I do this because I believe it helps foster professionalism. I don't shoot models for a living, but I am a professional and approach all my work in a professional manner. I expect the same from anyone I work with. It seems to work out well although my time doesn't permit me to do as much of this as I would like.
On the few occasions that I have shot models for clients, they were usually provided (and paid) and I just showed up and did the work.
I also get requests from women locally to shoot them to help develop their portfolios. I generally don't charge them for this, but I do meet with them first to see if I like them. If they come to the meeting and are energetic and excited and have ideas and pages torn out of magazines and are really into trying to do something unique (even if it's just unique in their minds) and this is NOT very often - then I work with them. If they're "dead fish" then I won't. I suppose they could pay me enough to do it, but to be honest they would be wasting their money as I probably wouldn't do that good of a job if I wasn't that into it. It might be "technically good", but that's it. I like shooting with models because I enjoy the collaborative experience. I find that rewarding. If that experience isn't there, then there is no reason for me to be. Since I don't make my living in this area, I can afford to do things this way. It may bother some, but I'm happy with it.
I have often said, however, that if a young photog were building a book, he should hire the best models he can. Not for their "look" but for the professionalism they will bring to the shoot - they will elevate his or her work immediately. The same goes for models. TFP is very hit and miss and can be a tremendous time waster and do very little to foster a career. But hey, what do I know.....
Matt
Photographer
Plastercasting
Posts: 275
Wichita, Kansas, US
Tough to say whether I would hire Udor or not. What he has posted is excellent by any standards. It appears he pretty much exclusively shoots models and brings out the life in his shots. Since my sculptures are static and lifeless, I would think a photographer that shoots objects rather than people would be better suited for what I do. I am very impressed with his work though and often check back on his portfolio to see his updates though!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Plastercasting wrote:
Tough to say whether I would hire Udor or not. What he has posted is excellent by any standards. It appears he pretty much exclusively shoots models and brings out the life in his shots. Since my sculptures are static and lifeless, I would think a photographer that shoots objects rather than people would be better suited for what I do. I am very impressed with his work though and often check back on his portfolio to see his updates though! Thank you so much for your compliment.
Actually, models are only a smaller fraction of what I am shooting. On MM, of course, I post only models...
If you look at my website http://www.udorphotography.com (did I mention it's outdated?) you'll see that I shoot from lobster bisque, to portraits and actors, to performers (vocal), apparel, rappers and R&B artists for their promo, as well as all other themes I get assignments for.
I consider myself a photographer, someone who creates photos... and for that... I shoot ANYTHING, and if there's something I never did before... I'll educate myself and then I shoot it... LOL
Photographer
Plastercasting
Posts: 275
Wichita, Kansas, US
UdoR wrote:
Thank you so much for your compliment.
Actually, models are only a smaller fraction of what I am shooting. If you look at my website http://www.udorphotography.com (did I mention it's outdated?) you'll see that I shoot from lobster bisque, to portraits and actors, to performers (vocal), apparel, rappers and R&B artists for their promo, as well as all other themes I get assignments for.
I consider myself a photographer, someone who creates photos... and for that... I shoot ANYTHING, and if there's something I never did before... I'll educate myself and then I shoot it... LOL OOOOPS!! I stand corrected! Is it too late to change my vote???
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Plastercasting wrote:
OOOOPS!! I stand corrected! Is it too late to change my vote??? Hahahaa
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
Still life is and always has been my favorite. I'm a lighting junkie and can spend hours lighting a small set. That's what drove me to cinematography, not because I had a great story to tell and wanted to be a director, but because I enjoyed creating emotive images...
UDOR, I would love to see your still life work.
Matt
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Paramour Productions wrote:
Still life is and always has been my favorite. I'm a lighting junkie and can spend hours lighting a small set. That's what drove me to cinematography, not because I had a great story to tell and wanted to be a director, but because I enjoyed creating emotive images...
UDOR, I would love to see your still life work.
Matt Does food photography and jewelry or photos of paintings (for catalogues and artbooks) qualify as still life?
If so, a quick jump to Sheldon Landwehr's page will show you samples of my first restaurant review. Although, I disagreed with the editors, I had chosen several other images for the magazine.
(I am getting pressed for time right now, so, that would have to suffice)
http://www.sheldonlandwehr.com/column/b … mar05a.pdf
Just one more example of stuff I don't have up anywhere... 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
way to keep the thread on track udo... ![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
way to keep the thread on track udo... hahaha, it's my duty...
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
UdoR wrote:
Does food photography and jewelry or photos of paintings (for catalogues and artbooks) qualify as still life?
If so, a quick jump to Sheldon Landwehr's page will show you samples of my first restaurant review. Although, I disagreed with the editors, I had chosen several other images for the magazine.
(I am getting pressed for time right now, so, that would have to suffice)
http://www.sheldonlandwehr.com/column/b … mar05a.pdf
Just one more example of stuff I don't have up anywhere... Food photography is one of the more challenging forms of still life - so it certainly qualifies! I'll check it out!
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
UdoR wrote:
It's easier for someone like you, Hamza, who is already filthy rich, but for a hard working stiff like me... I gave too many freebees... (especially those poor magazines)
I see it this way... if I have time, all bills are paid and there is enough money left for the rest of the months, and not too many paying gigs in line... I am more "approachable"... but I think you remember those times too... Dude, you must be talking about another Hamza! I am not filthy rich...yet! But I am on the right track. I do remember the times when there aren't too many paying jobs out there, it happens, it's our business, I never worry, eventually it comes around.
I will shoot TFP/CD on days when I do not have a gig. It's really that simple. I love to shoot! What's it going to cost me? $25.00 for gas for my car and parking??? BFD!
I will help models out, but if you are a magazine, pay me or go fuck yourself!
You can make many connections with new models, sometimes it's not monetary, but you never know who knows someone with a restaurant that needs a nice pic for an ad and can't really pay a lot of money so you barter and eat free for a year! That's better than money, you don't report that to Uncle Sam!!!
But I do because technically it is income and I wouldn't want to cheat our beloved government...Whew!
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
UdoR wrote:
Does food photography and jewelry or photos of paintings (for catalogues and artbooks) qualify as still life?
If so, a quick jump to Sheldon Landwehr's page will show you samples of my first restaurant review. Although, I disagreed with the editors, I had chosen several other images for the magazine.
(I am getting pressed for time right now, so, that would have to suffice)
http://www.sheldonlandwehr.com/column/b … mar05a.pdf
Just one more example of stuff I don't have up anywhere... Dude!
I shot a video for those guys and they never did anything with it! It was like 4 years ago through a friend of mine at Italian Television!!!
Small world!
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
Hamza wrote:
Dude!
I shot a video for those guys and they never did anything with it! It was like 4 years ago through a friend of mine at Italian Television!!!
Small world! Yeah, it is... too funny!
But I think you may be thinking about Le Cirque. Osteria Del Circo is also their restaurant, but that was rather new, AFAIK.
I also agree with you in the post above that...
We just have to make a living and things starting to turn quite interesting on my side as well...
We've got to hang sometimes... not just waiting for the next fashionweek...
Model
Jessica Loren
Posts: 516
Baltimore, Maryland, US
If I could afford UdoR...definitely!
Model
InDecisivE
Posts: 205
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
I know this isn't participating.. But I already did - so I'm taking a free post! But at one point I thought payment - was a reward.. I told one photographer, maybe a few... Pay me as you see necessary, or don't pay me at all... Looking at it as a job - I want to be paid for my performance.. IF I walk out of a shoot and your not happy - you hired me, don't pay me for crap! lol.. If I walk out - and you are completely in awe - and think you'll be overly happy with what was accomplished - then pay me - - There is a business stand point to the remark - and some of these things should or would be dealt with before hand - but.. i'm honest - and i'd hope a photog would be too! - if we negotiate for pay, then surprise me with the amount - if it's not a lot because I didn't do well - then take the time to critique me instead.. I want to walk away from a shoot with something - whether it be payment or not... Overall - Sometimes you need so much paid work to manage - to make things possible... so, this can't always happen - but if I have money - and the payment is no longer a necessity or a part of the shoot - then I'd prefer to work like this...... 
Model
Brandy
Posts: 1353
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
If I were a photographer, I'd pay InDecisive... no doubt about that.. she's gorgeous!
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
picturemephotography wrote:
are you u worthy of the $ u charge for your services Silly rabbit, its not whether you feel you are worthy to charge for services but whether the client thinks you're worthy to pay you for your services.
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Jessica L wrote:
If I could afford UdoR...definitely! Udor would shoot you for free!
Model
Just AJ
Posts: 3478
Round Rock, Texas, US
Nerlande wrote:
Nope, not interesting. People will either be like "Well if I had the money" or "Well, maybe I'd pay a little bit"
Please.
This isn't the site to have this kind of thread on. This is stroke-an-ego central.
People WILL take things personally when they don't see the responses they'd like. I can't believe I'm actually going to admit this/say this outInternet, but I agree with Nerlande. No one has said they woudn't pay the previous poster YET. Maybe someone will be brave enough to actually admit the truth, but like Nerlande said (am I turning into a Nerlande fan??? OMG!). . .if someone DID say that. . .the saidee would only get offended. So what's the point???
Yet and still respecting the OP:
If I had enough to pay Hamza. . .I would. If he came to KC.  But Hamza's a good photographer/professional. Professionals DESERVE to be paid! That's how they make their living. It's their livlihood.
Model
InDecisivE
Posts: 205
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Jayne Jones wrote:
I can't believe I'm actually going to admit this/say this outInternet, but I agree with Nerlande. No one has said they woudn't pay the previous poster YET. Maybe someone will be brave enough to actually admit the truth, but like Nerlande said (am I turning into a Nerlande fan??? OMG!). . .if someone DID say that. . .the saidee would only get offended. So what's the point??? Personally -
Why would I get offended? Or why should someone be offended!...
Your in a business where you are judged all the time...
You put yourself out there to be put in taht exact position -yes or no...
It's not really ever a maybe....
If someone won't pay me - or says they dont' think I should be paid well then...
A) I need more practice, more experience - and there are things I as a model need to work on....
B) I just don't fit what they do!? -
C) Maybe they don't agree with it......
D, E.. F.... - There are a few different reasons... Blunt Ones, Rude Ones, Polite Ones...
Take it as you must - but to me - if you are in this business from the beginning you have asked to be denied, rewarded, punished, and impressed. Nothing is all good - especially in this industry!
-Expect the worst, hope for the best- People don't like the same things.. That's just how it works...
Or so I thought..
Model
Just AJ
Posts: 3478
Round Rock, Texas, US
Jayne Jones wrote:
I can't believe I'm actually going to admit this/say this outInternet, but I agree with Nerlande. No one has said they woudn't pay the previous poster YET. Maybe someone will be brave enough to actually admit the truth, but like Nerlande said (am I turning into a Nerlande fan??? OMG!). . .if someone DID say that. . .the saidee would only get offended. So what's the point??? InDecisivE wrote:
Personally -
Why would I get offended? Or why should someone be offended!...
Your in a business where you are judged all the time...
You put yourself out there to be put in taht exact position -yes or no...
It's not really ever a maybe....
If someone won't pay me - or says they dont' think I should be paid well then...
A) I need more practice, more experience - and there are things I as a model need to work on....
B) I just don't fit what they do!? -
C) Maybe they don't agree with it......
D, E.. F.... - There are a few different reasons... Blunt Ones, Rude Ones, Polite Ones...
Take it as you must - but to me - if you are in this business from the beginning you have asked to be denied, rewarded, punished, and impressed. Nothing is all good - especially in this industry!
-Expect the worst, hope for the best- People don't like the same things.. That's just how it works...
Or so I thought.. That's all well and good but in this arena. . .it's all about egos. Speaking of MM. The real world is full of all you spoke of. MM is sooo not an acurate representation of the real world.
Model
InDecisivE
Posts: 205
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
You are right.
But - You would only hope that people would be as close to real as they could.
Photographer
udor
Posts: 25255
New York, New York, US
InDecisivE wrote:
You are right.
But - You would only hope that people would be as close to real as they could. You know... I am not even sure what "real" means.
I have made so many connections, and all the models I've met outside of MM in the industry and sent them here, are real too.
Of course, as it's an internet thing, many who appear rough on the forums are really nice and behaved people in real life...
Some hide their real character behind the keyboard, and some are even more abrasive than in real life, maybe because NOW they can vent in a way that would get them punched in the mouth in R/L... must be a lot of bottled up anger and frustration in them.
But, in general, I perceive many MM people as real.
Am I missing your point?
Photographer
Tony Blei Photography
Posts: 1060
Seattle, Washington, US
I would pay InDecisivE to model.
I would pay her because she is going to work for me. I in turn am going to work hard to sell the images that I've created.
By accepting money, I do believe that she is selling her rights to any later compensation.
Another reason for paying her wage? She's a professional and deserves to earn a living.
T
Photographer
Tony Culture Photoz
Posts: 1555
Bloomfield, New Jersey, US
Damn, you all would pay each other, theoretically. Let me present myself, the one NO ONE would pay. Nerlande would be rich as hell though
Photographer
Tony Culture Photoz
Posts: 1555
Bloomfield, New Jersey, US
Damn, you all would pay each other, theoretically. Let me present myself, the one NO ONE would pay. Nerlande would be rich as hell though
Model
msonyxorb
Posts: 40
Los Angeles, California, US
Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
Damn, you all would pay each other, theoretically. Let me present myself, the one NO ONE would pay. Nerlande would be rich as hell though no, i wouldnt. i dont like your style and i dont think the quality of your photos are worth paying for.
Photographer
Tony Culture Photoz
Posts: 1555
Bloomfield, New Jersey, US
See what I mean ? I am nowhere hurt by that at all. I love straight up honesty like this. No need for a rebuttal to her statement.
Model
Envy
Posts: 11189
Nashville, Tennessee, US
msonyxorb :
If I were a photographer? No. The fact you've been banned 3 times from MM under different names gives a good reason as to why.
Photographer
Tony Culture Photoz
Posts: 1555
Bloomfield, New Jersey, US
Really, is that so ? Hmmm. I wonder why that happened
Model
msonyxorb
Posts: 40
Los Angeles, California, US
Tony Culture Photoz wrote:
See what I mean ? I am nowhere hurt by that at all. I love straight up honesty like this. No need for a rebuttal to her statement. its because not everyone likes honesty
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