Photographer
WBV Artography
Posts: 1370
San Antonio, Texas, US
WhiteBears Visions
Male
Location: Texas
Posts: 83
AWS [Assholes With Studios]
Never see this one brought up.
I've been doing this for 18 years. I've worked with hundreds of girls wanting to model-anywhere from the ones wanting to actually 'model' as in make a career from it [[some have but most don't]] to hose just wanting some neat images to say they have modeled.. I've photographed several famous people on one-on-one shoots-a news anchor from Channel 2 in Florida, A British Sexologist and Ross Perot comes to mind.
I've worked-as an actual J-O-B in the newspaper and Television Film industry.
I've worked as freelance for two magazines as well.
I sell nature prints and books. Some of my artistic work goes for hundreds of $$ but I'm just as happy to give one to someone that is working for Micky D's and struggling but really loves one and wishes and hopes someday they can afford one...know what? Fuckit, take it with you and enjoy-I'll shoot another.
I have the tearsheets and press plates and all that shit in boxes in my garage.
I've noticed this over and over-even before the internet became viable of guys that do Olan Mills work seeming to think everyone else in the photo world is below them.
AWS's.
I've worked with girls that never became supermodels but have done some commercial catalog work who were told by some stupid Mofo they weren't 'pretty' enough to model so the photog wasn't going to bother with them.
I've worked with girls where the AWS got mean because they didn't want to get nude.
I've gone to several photog/model events where 99% of the people I met had their heads up their asses with attitude.
Yeah-so some cute little thing signs up and has a few web cam shots so what? She wants to get paid? So what? She might be the one that a guy like me TALKS to, does a shoot or three and ends up in Playboy-but at any rate she [i]sends me business- and 9 out of ten times no money is exchanged but we have a hell of a good shoots-she gets what she wants and I get what I want. Some guy with a digital and shitty work signs up as a professional? So what? Anyone with eyes can see the difference and what happens is those playing gravitate towards each other-have a bad time and quit clearing the field for the long-haulers.
Yes-the digital revolution has made it harder. Even my own mother gets some good shotss with her P/S digi but it's sporadic and she can't count on it but at least it keeps me from getting called and invited to some function I have no interest and
"Oh, can you bring your camera? You might get some nice pictures..."
Yes-there are some great photogs here and elsewhere and I love to see the work put out but the 'GWC' and 'Newbie models' attitudes of some really suck.
*I* don't work in a studio I don't want one and frankly can't afford one and if I could I STILL wouldn't have one.
I just find it dissapointing to see some of the 'tude ciming from these 'photogs'. I'd rather work with a newbie model who thinks she's "All that" or a newbie photog who suck dingleberries than deal with some of the people I've met with the asshole attitude over the years.
Photographer
WBV Artography
Posts: 1370
San Antonio, Texas, US
Thanks or the help UdoR.
As far as your request-I see and have met a lot of photogs and models that think they are God's gift to the art. I've noticed many times that yes-they have talent but within a narrow defined field and anything outside of that is below them.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
looks like you got everything included except your favorite color
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Yes, I like the third image from the left.
Photographer
Shutterbug5269
Posts: 16084
Herkimer, New York, US
Yeah I see your point. I am the same way about having a studio. I've known my share of the people you speak of too.
I do photography because I actually LIKE doing it. If I make a little money at it fine and dandy if not thats ok too. If somebody likes my work and wants to pose for me GREAT if not thats ok with me too. I'm not gonna waste my time with somebody who's gonna drag me down.
I actually ENJOY shooting outdoors, granted that limits my shooting to four or five months of the year (I live in Upstate, NY) but I live in the country and have great scenery to work with.
Mark
Photographer
photoguy42
Posts: 2925
Toledo, Ohio, US
To be honest, I prefer working with new models.
Better yet, I like finding people who have never modeled before to work with.
If I were to pay some professional model to pose, it's almost expected that I get good shots...or that I'll make her look good. To me, there's no real challenge in that. BUT, if I find someone, and ask them to model for me...someone who's never considered trying to model simply because they've never been asked...and I get some outstanding pictures that not only am I happy with...but make them feel better about themself...well, I think I've succeeded on a much higher level then...
I love taking pictures...plain and simple...if I can make someone feel better about themself in the mean time, while having fun, then it's a situation in which everyone wins...
Model
Jay Dezelic
Posts: 5029
Seattle, Washington, US
Healthy rant. I for one don't judge photogs on whether or not they have a studio. That is irrelevant. I feel that shooting studio or location is their own personal choice of style. Both situations have completely different workflows and discipline. It's kind of like George Carlin's famous skit about the differences between baseball and football. Neither activity is "better" than the other. They both produce great results when proficiently executed.
Photographer
Rich Meade
Posts: 1302
Atlanta, Georgia, US
this might be a little off topic
but i've noticed attitudes of photographers vary based on (most of the time) where they are in relation to where they want to be.
I have emailed and spoken to a lot of professionals in my local area and around the world, and I find... the ones who have it made... Nadav Kander for example.. are much more approachable, fun loving, and genuinely(sp?) interested talking with a student of the art they love.
on the other hand, talking with local photographers (trying to get assisting jobs) tend to be arrogant, cocky, and belittling. Granted... it may be because they were treated the same way as they came up through the business... but to me it seems like they are just vindictive because they aren't where they want to be, and another up and coming photographer wants to use them as a stepping stone.
I'm just a student, and realize I have a long way to go to get to my fame and fortune, and sure... some of us (students) tend to be a bit cocky, but I don't think I will ever get to the point that I would turn away an aspiring photographer/model, that wants to sit down and chat, show me his/her work. If I ever do... I vow to retire right then and there!
all in all I think AWS's just reflect the lack of confidence in their self and dissapointment with where they find themselves in life.
Photographer
Anderson Artwork
Posts: 493
Kansas City, Missouri, US
WhiteBears Visions wrote:
WhiteBears Visions
Male
Location: Texas
Posts: 83
AWS [Assholes With Studios]
Never see this one brought up.
I've been doing this for 18 years. I've worked with hundreds of girls wanting to model-anywhere from the ones wanting to actually 'model' as in make a career from it [[some have but most don't]] to hose just wanting some neat images to say they have modeled.. I've photographed several famous people on one-on-one shoots-a news anchor from Channel 2 in Florida, A British Sexologist and Ross Perot comes to mind.
I've worked-as an actual J-O-B in the newspaper and Television Film industry.
I've worked as freelance for two magazines as well.
I sell nature prints and books. Some of my artistic work goes for hundreds of $$ but I'm just as happy to give one to someone that is working for Micky D's and struggling but really loves one and wishes and hopes someday they can afford one...know what? Fuckit, take it with you and enjoy-I'll shoot another.
I have the tearsheets and press plates and all that shit in boxes in my garage.
I've noticed this over and over-even before the internet became viable of guys that do Olan Mills work seeming to think everyone else in the photo world is below them.
AWS's.
I've worked with girls that never became supermodels but have done some commercial catalog work who were told by some stupid Mofo they weren't 'pretty' enough to model so the photog wasn't going to bother with them.
I've worked with girls where the AWS got mean because they didn't want to get nude.
I've gone to several photog/model events where 99% of the people I met had their heads up their asses with attitude.
Yeah-so some cute little thing signs up and has a few web cam shots so what? She wants to get paid? So what? She might be the one that a guy like me TALKS to, does a shoot or three and ends up in Playboy-but at any rate she [i]sends me business- and 9 out of ten times no money is exchanged but we have a hell of a good shoots-she gets what she wants and I get what I want. Some guy with a digital and shitty work signs up as a professional? So what? Anyone with eyes can see the difference and what happens is those playing gravitate towards each other-have a bad time and quit clearing the field for the long-haulers.
Yes-the digital revolution has made it harder. Even my own mother gets some good shotss with her P/S digi but it's sporadic and she can't count on it but at least it keeps me from getting called and invited to some function I have no interest and
"Oh, can you bring your camera? You might get some nice pictures..."
Yes-there are some great photogs here and elsewhere and I love to see the work put out but the 'GWC' and 'Newbie models' attitudes of some really suck.
*I* don't work in a studio I don't want one and frankly can't afford one and if I could I STILL wouldn't have one.
I just find it dissapointing to see some of the 'tude ciming from these 'photogs'. I'd rather work with a newbie model who thinks she's "All that" or a newbie photog who suck dingleberries than deal with some of the people I've met with the asshole attitude over the years. Couldn't have said it better myself!
I would rather shoot with someone like Maggie Daney [MM # 91454] who is as sweet as the day is long than any "perfect 10" that thinks their sh*t don't stink...not that I'm saying Maggie is not pretty damn close to a 10...she is in my book but she is wanting to tone up a bit more...trust me...that is all she may need to do too!
I have had some of my best times with "sponge" models. Sponge models are the ones that KNOW they don't know what to do and they ABSORB everything you try to teach them. Maggie and I worked the first time at an open to the public motorcycle show. She had never shot in public nor using a bike as a prop...she LISTENED to every word I said...utilized the info instead of analizing it...by the end of the day...she not only could pose on bikes but could ignore the crowds...AND...she won herself a friend and #1 FAN , in me! By our second shoot she was getting her poses right faster and faster....by the end of that shoot she was right on vertually every shot!
I have done some group shoots where I was the old dog with all the tricks and also where I was the young pup still falling over stuff...both ways I learned and sometimes even got the joy of teaching an eager young shooter a new trick or two. David Scott [MM #76076] comes to mind...nice guy...learning the ropes...willing to listen and work hard at getting better...you couldn't ask for a better guy to hang with for a sunny day shoot. On one of my puppy days, it was Ron Barlow [MM #19387] that took the new guy under instruction...taught me more in a day than I had learned on my own in a year...I get to repeat that scenario next month...Master Obi Ron, your young Jedi padiwan is ready for instruction!
LOL
Photographer
photoruss
Posts: 131
Hiram, Georgia, US
I'm taking a Photography as a Business class and the instructor commented that Photographers get paranoid when taking on assistants, because they think the assistant will steal some clients away. They might have gotten burned before and have a bad taste in their mouths about assistants. The others are probably just AWS's.
Photographer
john knight
Posts: 451
Farmington, New Mexico, US
I agree , I have been trying to learn photography for about a year. I do not have a studio or a digital camera, I shoot with film and I make mistakes. A while back I joined another portfolio site and took a beating from the professionals. according to them all of my work was crap and if I was serious about learning I would have a huge studio, but the Professionals fail to realize that when a person has a deep down burning passion to succeed that all they are doing is fueling the fire within......So I have learned the more I am told my work stinks , well I will brush it off and try harder...I have a great appreciation for photographers who show professionalism with manners and attitude versus ones who show professionalism with thier money and arrogance.
Photographer
Ramblin Studio
Posts: 109
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Rich Meade wrote:
this might be a little off topic
but i've noticed attitudes of photographers vary based on (most of the time) where they are in relation to where they want to be.
I have emailed and spoken to a lot of professionals in my local area and around the world, and I find... the ones who have it made... Nadav Kander for example.. are much more approachable, fun loving, and genuinely(sp?) interested talking with a student of the art they love.
on the other hand, talking with local photographers (trying to get assisting jobs) tend to be arrogant, cocky, and belittling. Granted... it may be because they were treated the same way as they came up through the business... but to me it seems like they are just vindictive because they aren't where they want to be, and another up and coming photographer wants to use them as a stepping stone.
I'm just a student, and realize I have a long way to go to get to my fame and fortune, and sure... some of us (students) tend to be a bit cocky, but I don't think I will ever get to the point that I would turn away an aspiring photographer/model, that wants to sit down and chat, show me his/her work. If I ever do... I vow to retire right then and there!
all in all I think AWS's just reflect the lack of confidence in their self and dissapointment with where they find themselves in life. Maybe its because they are tired of wanna be photographers mucking up the biz. Maybe they don't like it when you show up on their door step asking "How can I get to where you are, Can I work for you? Will you teach me? I just bought a camera and I am taking pics of my half naked wife and some smutty fats chicks i met on the net, half naked and poorly light, do you want to see them?" Or maybe its because you have one or two freelance jobs, that you got from a local pub or some local coffee shop paid you 20 bucks for a print to hang on their wall. So now you call yourself a photographer and email girls all day and stop them in the mall parading a a photographer asking them to take off their clothes in the name of art. Or it could be that you have a few freelance jobs on the side of your boring whatever you do job. You get the freelance job because you work for pennies and nickels. You say to yourself and your friends "I won't charge to much, because I do it for the art!" But in reality you are doing for a low to free amount because thatâs the market you are, and that is why you are getting those jobs. These people arenât hiring "real photographers" because they know their are GWC out there that will do it for pennies and nickels. What you don't know is how much that pisses off the guys you say won't have anything to do with you, photographers. Not because your taking biz away from them, but because you wal-mart the market. You sell crap for a cheap price.
So don't be pissed or even bag on the photographer that you email, call or even knock on his studio door, doesn't give you the respect that you think you deserve. You and him are not the same person. When you spend 6 years in school studying photography, and then go onto work an internship (for free in most cases) for 6 months to a year. While working 2 part-time jobs just to eat and live. Then venture out on your own with loans up to 100,000 dollars in equipment, insurance, and advertising. To find out this guy knocking at your door on a busy workday wants you to give him all the knowledge and experience you have gain with money and sweat, for free. Because one day his mom asked him to shoot his granny and grand dad's 50th wedding reception and aunt Clare thought your photo's were so good, decided to be a photographer. Don't be surprised they tell you too, fuck off!
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
personally, a studio a necessity for any professional photographer..there are to many variables to contend with when you are paid to deliver images. (read the thread where all the photogs and models were having shoots cancelled cause of weather)..if you cant control the environment, theres no way to deliver images on a consistant basis.
secondly, i let my images do the talking..i dont ever tell anyone how good i am based on my resume, cause at the end of the day..if your images are just ehhh....its doesn't matter who you worked with or where you've been.
in this business. the image is everything..
Photographer
GWC
Posts: 1407
Baltimore, Maryland, US
WhiteBears Visions wrote:
... I am glad to see you are a healthy fan of GWC!!!!! You can wax the wheels of my ferrari any time, dude!!
GWC!
Photographer
GWC
Posts: 1407
Baltimore, Maryland, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
personally, a studio a necessity for any professional photographer.. Even a photojournalist? Or a WAR photographer?
Dude, you are like so "DUH" with the overgeneralizashuns and stuff!!!
GWC!
Model
~*Isabel Aurora*~
Posts: 5778
Boca del Mar, Florida, US
I'm interested!
Are travel expenses included???
Photographer
mphunt
Posts: 923
Hudson, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
...."i let my images do the talking.......in this business. the image is everything...." Best advice I've seen here in a long time.
Photographer
WBV Artography
Posts: 1370
San Antonio, Texas, US
For me it's a business contact and in real business you buy the janitor a coffee every now and again and not just the CEO bec ause the CEO may help make sure the business runs but the janitor makes sure you aren't wiping yer as with yer hand.
If a photog is a dick then I'm not going to send business to him/her.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
WhiteBears Visions wrote:
WhiteBears Visions
Male
Location: Texas
Posts: 83
I've been doing this for 18 years...I've worked with hundreds of girls... I've worked-as an actual ...I've worked as ... I sell ...Some of my artistic work... Fuckit, take it with you and enjoy-I'll shoot another....I have the tearsheets and press plates and all that shit in boxes in my garage...I've noticed this over and over-even... I've worked with girls... I've worked with girls where... I've gone to several photog/model events... we have a hell of a good shoots-she gets what she wants and I get what I want... *I* don't work in a studio...I don't want one...if I could I STILL wouldn't have one...I just find it dissapointing,,. I'd rather work with a newbie model...
I've met with the asshole attitude over the years. I, I, I, I, aye,aye-aye...aye...
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
Rich Meade wrote:
another up and coming photographer wants to use them as a stepping stone... There's your answer, right there.
Consider this in addition to the post that previously addressed your response...
You're talking about a group of people (photographers) who could have easily taught themselves both how to shoot and how to run a business. You approaching them to use them as a stepping stone might be viewed as just that. And understandably met with skepticism.
They might be looking at it as "Why should I teach you to compete with me when everyone else has done a fine job of it on their own?"
Photographer
Webspinner Studios
Posts: 6964
Ann Arbor, Michigan, US
GWC wrote:
Even a photojournalist? Or a WAR photographer?
Dude, you are like so "DUH" with the overgeneralizashuns and stuff!!!
GWC! Hey...you must not be one of those AWS' i am hearing about lately.
Photographer
Ramblin Studio
Posts: 109
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Maybe its because they are tired of you wanna be photographers mucking up the biz. Maybe they don't like it when you show up on their door step asking "How can I get to where you are, Can I work for you? Will you teach me? I just bought a camera and I am taking pics of my half naked wife and some smutty fats chicks i met on the internet, half naked and poorly executed, do you want to see them?" Or maybe its because you have one or two freelance jobs, that you got from a local pub or some local coffee shop paid you 20 bucks for a print to hang on their wall. So now you call yourself a photographer and email girls all day and stop them in the mall, parading as a photographer asking them to take off their clothes in the name of art. Or it could be that you have a few freelance jobs on the side of your boring, whatever you do job. You get the freelance job because you work for pennies and nickels. You say to yourself and your friends "I won't charge to much, because I do it for the art!" But in reality you are doing for little to nothing because thatâs what you are, and that is all the jobs your going to get. These people (your clients) arenât hiring "real photographers" because they know their are countless GWC out there, that will do it for pennies and nickels. What you don't know, is how much that pisses off the guys you say won't have anything to do with you or are to stuck up. Not because your taking biz away from them, but because you wal-mart the market. You sell crap for a cheap price.
So don't be pissed or even bag on the photographer that you email, call or even knock on his studio door, that doesn't give you the respect that you think you deserve. You and him are not the same person. When you spend 6 years in school studying photography, and then go onto work an internship (for free in most cases) for 6 months to a year. While working 2 part-time jobs just to eat and live. Then venture out on your own with loans up to 100,000 dollars in equipment, insurance, and advertising. To find out this guy knocking at your door on a busy workday wants you to give him all the knowledge and experience you have gain with money and sweat, for free. Because one day his mom asked him to shoot his granny and grand dad's 50th wedding reception and aunt Clare thought your photo's were so good, decided to be a photographer. Don't be surprised they tell you too, fuck off!
Photographer
J. Stakeman
Posts: 264
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US
Ha... Blue studio is so mad he had to write it twice...
Get over it... many people are assholes... several of them are photographers...
But really... why should you care about people feeling superior unless you are feeling inferior about it.
Its like cooking at home... and complaining that professional chefs are better than you.
All those asshole chefs with kitchens... thinking they are so much better than me with my kettle and cup of ramen soup....
Its just as crazy as chefs complaining that they are losing business to MWM's(Mom's with Microwaves)... the world changes... the market changes... the people who are lowballing photographers wouldn't have paid you what you wanted anyway. Find a new way... with your energy and indigation... find the next thing to happen to photography since stock...
and do it quickly
Photographer
Bluemoon Photography
Posts: 202
Cranston, Rhode Island, US
Wow, Blue, your probably dead on right, but next time don't hold back. Tell us how you realy feel.
And just for the record, every pro I've ever met started out shooting gradma's reception.
By the way, Aunie says Hi, and still loves your work.
Photographer
GWC
Posts: 1407
Baltimore, Maryland, US
~Krista~ wrote:
Hey...you must not be one of those AWS' i am hearing about lately. I don't have a studiio!!!! I usually photograph in hotel rooms or in the parking lot behind the denny's where I bus tables! It works out OK though I am working on a "monograf" called "30 half naked girls photographed on the hood of my pickup truck" -- I got a casting call going out real soon now! My next book after that is tentativly gonna be called "30 cheap hotel rooms"
GWC!
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
AWS [Assholes With Studios]
but not half as bad as the,
AWOSE [assholes with obvious studio envy]
Photographer
DeBoer Photography
Posts: 782
Melbourne, Florida, US
Doh!
Why is this thing double posting so much lately?
Photographer
Jay Bowman
Posts: 6511
Los Angeles, California, US
J. Stakeman wrote:
Its just as crazy as chefs complaining that they are losing business to MWM's(Mom's with Microwaves)... the world changes... the market changes... the people who are lowballing photographers wouldn't have paid you what you wanted anyway. Find a new way... with your energy and indigation... find the next thing to happen to photography since stock... I like that analogy...
Photographer
Ramblin Studio
Posts: 109
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
J. Stakeman wrote:
Ha... Blue studio is so mad he had to write it twice...
Get over it... many people are assholes... several of them are photographers...
But really... why should you care about people feeling superior unless you are feeling inferior about it.
Its like cooking at home... and complaining that professional chefs are better than you.
All those asshole chefs with kitchens... thinking they are so much better than me with my kettle and cup of ramen soup....
Its just as crazy as chefs complaining that they are losing business to MWM's(Mom's with Microwaves)... the world changes... the market changes... the people who are lowballing photographers wouldn't have paid you what you wanted anyway. Find a new way... with your energy and indigation... find the next thing to happen to photography since stock...
and do it quickly Yes, I am mad. I have a right to be mad. I read on here all the time GWCs bagging on photographers for being asses, for "not helping foster the advancement of the art" But what they really mean is "They won't play with me! They won't tell me I am a good photographer! They won't play nice! They have a studio and a business and won't relpy to my email and my constant posts to their photos, well the must be jerks then!" They don't see you a competition, are you kidding? (you did get the comparison right however, a chef and a women at home with a microwave) That chef doesn't see the women as competition, she is a fly and sometimes fly's get in when you leave the door open. If you don't take care of them they usually just go away, but annoying as hell!
I took all my contact info off of MM because I kept getting to many flys. They are dirty and bad for Biz.
Photographer
Dalmar
Posts: 319
Miami, Florida, US
Blue Photography Studio wrote:
Maybe its because they are tired of wanna be photographers mucking up the biz. Maybe they don't like it when you show up on their door step asking "How can I get to where you are, Can I work for you? Will you teach me? I just bought a camera and I am taking pics of my half naked wife and some smutty fats chicks i met on the net, half naked and poorly light, do you want to see them?" Or maybe its because you have one or two freelance jobs, that you got from a local pub or some local coffee shop paid you 20 bucks for a print to hang on their wall. So now you call yourself a photographer and email girls all day and stop them in the mall parading a a photographer asking them to take off their clothes in the name of art. Or it could be that you have a few freelance jobs on the side of your boring whatever you do job. You get the freelance job because you work for pennies and nickels. You say to yourself and your friends "I won't charge to much, because I do it for the art!" But in reality you are doing for a low to free amount because thatâs the market you are, and that is why you are getting those jobs. These people arenât hiring "real photographers" because they know their are GWC out there that will do it for pennies and nickels. What you don't know is how much that pisses off the guys you say won't have anything to do with you, photographers. Not because your taking biz away from them, but because you wal-mart the market. You sell crap for a cheap price.
So don't be pissed or even bag on the photographer that you email, call or even knock on his studio door, doesn't give you the respect that you think you deserve. You and him are not the same person. When you spend 6 years in school studying photography, and then go onto work an internship (for free in most cases) for 6 months to a year. While working 2 part-time jobs just to eat and live. Then venture out on your own with loans up to 100,000 dollars in equipment, insurance, and advertising. To find out this guy knocking at your door on a busy workday wants you to give him all the knowledge and experience you have gain with money and sweat, for free. Because one day his mom asked him to shoot his granny and grand dad's 50th wedding reception and aunt Clare thought your photo's were so good, decided to be a photographer. Don't be surprised they tell you too, fuck off! If a guy with a digital camera and limited experience is a threat to your work by being able to market adequate images to your clients at a lower rate, maybe the new guy looking to learn isn't the problem.
I used to be an offset printer years ago. I had extensive training, worked as an apprentice, did whatever it took to get the skills needed to do the job. Now any dipshit can press a button on a color digital copier and produce very similar work in a fraction of the time and at a much lower cost. Note I said I "used to be" a printer. I could have bitched up a storm about how shitty the color copies were ( when actually they aren't shitty at all) bitch and moan about it, etc....or figure out a way to get on top of it and deal with it.
The technology is only going to become more advanced and user friendly. Soon, anyone will be able to take a decent photograph with little or no training. How do we deal with that? Maybe it's to focus on the things that technology can't replace: intuition...instinct....a creative eye...art.
Photographer
Zunaphoto
Posts: 429
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I think this is THE funniest thread I have read in a long time. The irony and missed comments are thick on the ground. Hee hee and hee...!
Photographer
Ramblin Studio
Posts: 109
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Dalmar wrote:
If a guy with a digital camera and limited experience is a threat to your work by being able to market adequate images to your clients at a lower rate, maybe the new guy looking to learn isn't the problem.
I used to be an offset printer years ago. I had extensive training, worked as an apprentice, did whatever it took to get the skills needed to do the job. Now any dipshit can press a button on a color digital copier and produce very similar work in a fraction of the time and at a much lower cost. Note I said I "used to be" a printer. I could have bitched up a storm about how shitty the color copies were ( when actually they aren't shitty at all) bitch and moan about it, etc....or figure out a way to get on top of it and deal with it.
The technology is only going to become more advanced and user friendly. Soon, anyone will be able to take a decent photograph with little or no training. How do we deal with that? Maybe it's to focus on the things that technology can't replace: intuition...instinct....a creative eye...art. Do you really think so? Wow you are way off. You might need a few years of photo school.
Photographer
Dave Krueger
Posts: 2851
Huntsville, Alabama, US
Blue Photography Studio wrote:
Yes, I am mad. I have a right to be mad.... Why are you even here? We're mostly a bunch of pornographers anyway, according to the long winded whine on your profile. You've been here all of three weeks and you're complaining that we don't live up to your standards. Why not find a better place to hang out? Surely there must be plenty of places where people of your superior caliber hang out. Your world is so far removed from what goes on here it's curious as to why you even feel so threatened.
-Dave
Photographer
WBV Artography
Posts: 1370
San Antonio, Texas, US
J. Stakeman wrote:
Ha... Blue studio is so mad he had to write it twice...
Get over it... many people are assholes... several of them are photographers...
But really... why should you care about people feeling superior unless you are feeling inferior about it.
Its like cooking at home... and complaining that professional chefs are better than you.
All those asshole chefs with kitchens... thinking they are so much better than me with my kettle and cup of ramen soup....
Its just as crazy as chefs complaining that they are losing business to MWM's(Mom's with Microwaves)... the world changes... the market changes... the people who are lowballing photographers wouldn't have paid you what you wanted anyway. Find a new way... with your energy and indigation... find the next thing to happen to photography since stock...
and do it quickly Actually I started this one because I was curious as to hwo photogs would react-I am a bit surprised that it hasn't been bad.
Blue is about the only one geting pissed but I understand where he's coming from and don't diassagree for the most part.
I did the kollege and study and bought the equip but just never liked the studio-especially since 90% of my work is in the field doing nature work so I natyrally gravitate towards taking models out too as it's a comfortable environment for me.
My only interest in talking with other photogs is idea sharing and business sharing. I shoot outdoors but studio work is definatly a large part of a port-so, I shoot a newbie and send her on to photog A with the studio and he shoots her-we're all happy and make money.
Photog B shoots new model in studio and sends to me..I shoot and we're all happy and ake $$.
[[pplus I started a thread that hasn't died with three replies.  ]]
Photographer
Ramblin Studio
Posts: 109
Salt Lake City, Utah, US
Bluemoon Photography wrote:
Wow, Blue, your probably dead on right, but next time don't hold back. Tell us how you realy feel.
And just for the record, every pro I've ever met started out shooting gradma's reception.
By the way, Aunie says Hi, and still loves your work. Hey bluemoon, if thats really your name, you rascal. I just visited your website http://www.bluemoonphotography.com and its funny, none of your pictures were on it. Amazing thing, its not even in the same town as you. I am not sure, but I think using another business name as your own might be slightly dishonest. Plus that dang copywrite law to. darn it.
Photographer
Perc Powell Studios
Posts: 736
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
russellpmiller wrote:
I'm taking a Photography as a Business class and the instructor commented that Photographers get paranoid when taking on assistants, because they think the assistant will steal some clients away. They might have gotten burned before and have a bad taste in their mouths about assistants. The others are probably just AWS's. I've shot commercially for a long time wit many fortune 500 clients. I've also, more than once caught an assistant trying to steal work.
My thoughts are this; I, of course fired these assistants immediately for what I conisder disloyalty, but I also realize that he was just hungry for his first tear sheet. If they would have appraoched me I probably would have started to work him into taking over some of my smaller clients as time went on. My first big break came similarly when I worked for a cataloge house in NY. The owner was double booked and tructed me to do the smaller of the shoots (a Pat Benetar Cover shot). Ya! Ya! it was in the eighties and I was thrilled. Over time I received more adn more reponsibilty and eventually ventured out on my own.
Secondly: If you are truley doing your job for your client, coming through with the shot(s) they need on time and within budget, as their photographer you woudl probably have to die before they would ever dump you for another shooter let alone an assistant.
If your taking a business photography class - I hope they teach you the one thing that I never learned at R.I.T. (had to learn it in the real world of NY). Your creative talent and actual photographs only get you in the door. Personality, and bringing that project in on time and on budget consistantly will keep you working with that art director and client. Remember, there is always a better shooter coming in the door right behind you... what you have going for you is that the newbee has no track record with that client and your client is not about to risk his/her job on someone untested.
About AWS's: Each photog has his or her own personallity and style. I've known just as many A-holes without studios as with. Having a studio doesn't mean SQUAT! It's the peson behind the camera that counts. Only one rule works for ALL photography "FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU AND STICK WITH IT".
I'm off the soap box now. " )
Perc.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
Dave Krueger wrote:
Your world is so far removed from what goes on here it's curious as to why you even feel so threatened. That was too polite of an assumption, Dave.
Photographer
WBV Artography
Posts: 1370
San Antonio, Texas, US
Blue Photography Studio wrote:
Do you really think so? Wow you are way off. You might need a few years of photo school. I think so as well and I *have* a few years of photography school.
Lots of photography school learned people working at WalMart photo and Olan Mills.
Photographer
area291
Posts: 2525
Calabasas, California, US
WhiteBears Visions wrote:
I did the kollege and study and bought the equip but just never liked the studio-especially since 90% of my work is in the field doing nature work so I natyrally gravitate towards taking models out too as it's a comfortable environment for me. Let me guess...University of Crawford...
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