KM Studios wrote:
www.kmstudios.net

Prices range from city to region to level of experience.  pay for what you think a photographer is worth.  look under my services for the San Francisco industry many here think my service is waaaaaaaaaaaay too cheap! but for the midwest market most think it is highly priced.... how much would you pay for a shoot with me let's say Model Portfolio package B ...am I worth it ......' think L'oreal



KM Studios

That's what prices run here with most photographers that do not also shoot weddings.

J Merrill Images wrote:
You are still not getting it. Yes, equipment is considered to be an asset but it still takes money to pay for assets and that money comes from cash flow

You are absolutely correct.  I still don’t get it.  In order for something to be an asset, it would already be paid for.  If it wasn’t, it would be a liability.  Cash flows pay for liabilities not assets.

J Merrill Images wrote:
Perhaps it would be easier for you to understand if you thought in terms of amortization, the process by which you pay off a loan for an asset purchased with credit, or the process by which you write off the value of an asset over time (depreciation).

Dictionary.com wrote:
Amortization
1. The paying off of debt in regular installments over a period of time.
2. The deduction of capital expenses over a specific period of time. Similar to depreciation, it is a method of measuring the consumption of the value of long-term assets like equipment or buildings.
Investopedia Commentary
Think of amortization (the deduction of capital expenses) as a way to claim the decrease in value on your car every year. If you bought your car new for $20,000 and after the first year it is worth $17,000, theoretically you could amortize the $3,000 for tax and financial purposes.

Notice how the example says you could amortize the depreciation cost, not the total cost of the equipment as you have stated in your posts.  That’s completely different.  That’s saying you used a camera for that shoot and the camera’s value decreased because of the use.  Therefore, the entire cost of the camera is not a cost associated with the shoot, but rather the lost value of the camera as a result of using it to shoot.  Totally different.  Unless of course that’s what you “meantâ€? to say.

J Merrill Images wrote:
One stat that you didn't mention was the rate of business failures in the first five years. The fact of the matter is that it is generally high and that is due to a number of reasons - being under capitalized (for the lean years that you mention) and lack of business planning are two of the biggest ones.

If it is the objective of the photographer to be in business he or she needs to consider both direct costs and indirect costs on each shoot. Assuming that you have come out even or made a little profit based only on expendibles for the shoot is folly. It is also a great way to insure that you will soon be broke and out of business. What those of us that are speaking of are trying to point out is that there is more to it than what you are seeing or are wanting to see.

I don’t totally agree with you here.  Unlike you, I firmly believe that the majority of businesses fail because of their feeble attempts to make all of their profits/invested money back on one sale.  It would seem to me that if you are a business, and you wanted to invest say $100,000 in a piece of new equipment. . .you would first look at your volume of business and then determine how long it would take you to recoup that initial investment based on that volume of business over time.  Instead, it has been my experience (particularly with those new to a field or . . .dare I even put this out there. . .certain Black people) that the equipment is bought first and then the cost of the equipment figured out later.  Kind of like a buy a Bently before you buy a house mentality. 

Businesses are meant to grow over time, not immediately.  If you charge someone $30 for a hamburger because you are trying to recoup your investment loss for stoves, gas, light, water, etc. . .you just aren't going to be in business long if people can go down the street and buy a hamburger for a buck.  Sure you can holler "well you get what you pay for" but 80% of a successful business' sales come from repeat customers, not new ones.  So who's really SOL???

James Jackson wrote:
I know I've posted this a couple of times, but usually in response to photographers asking how much to charge...  I'll try to remember everything for you, but sometimes I forget and leave out a bit on the costs of a photographer.

Camera - Pro level Canon 5D or 1Ds MKII
~$3,000 (with lens, filters, media, and accessories such as a tripod and flash unit)
            Only guaranteed to work for ~100,000 shutter actuations (that's clicks).  On the average test shoot I hit the shutter between 500-700 times.  So I use between 1/2 - 1% of my camera's life each shoot.  So that's $15 - $21 of pure depreciation per shoot.

Studio - Shared space in major city
~$200/month (that's really cheap, and done by sharing the space with other photographers)
             I shoot twice per month on average.  So $100 per shoot for studio space
-OR-
Location - Scouted spot in city or suburbs
~Free (may cost if location charges and a good excuse can't be made)
             The free location doesn't include the hours and hours spent wandering the city and suburbs surrounding my house and studio to find those locations though...and each one can only be really effectively used once...some valuable locations need to be saved for when their multiple looks could be used on money making shoots etc...  I spend about 10 hours per month scouting locations...I can't estimate the charge for this one...it's a lot of time and gas and pain in the rear.  SO let's just assume it's worth at least $100/shoot

Photo editing computer - really need something near the latest and greatest to do efficient photo editing with larger and larger files
~$3000
             This should last me ~4 years (on the outside) before I have to completely replace it with the next latest and greatest. So $31.25/shoot

Camera bag - Pro level bag...good padding...ergonomically correct for the large amount of equipment I carry
~$160 (also on the inexpensive side since I bought it from an Australian company when the exchange rates were heavily in our favor)
            Should last about 5 years.  2 shoots/month * 12 months a year * 5 years = 120 uses....  That's $1.33/shoot

Assorted photography supplies - Foam core, Gaf tape, Seamless paper, etc
~$10/shoot

Photo assistant
~$150/shoot

Some costs are equal model - photographer but do figure in to how much it costs a photographer to shoot:

Vehicle - Car or truck
~$20,000
            Should last about 10 years or 150,000 miles.  It's 15 miles from the studio to my house.  So, $2/shoot.

Gas and tolls
~$8 /shoot

---------------

Quick sub total - $167.58 for just the basics... $317.58 if you add the assistant

---------------

Some things are things that I have always included and will probably always do even if they may seem unnecessary.

Shoot snacks
~$10 /shoot

Shoot meal for model(s) and crew - one meal time usually goes by during a shoot
~$70 /shoot

Model travel expenses - if she's traveling far enough to have a large expense
~$50 /shoot

Makeup Artist
~$75 /shoot

Editing time - color correcting and retouching photos
~2 days (16 hours)/shoot
          At a normal pay rate for a photo retoucher that is $320...let's just say it takes me out of the game for two days and costs me more than that, but I'll let it go at $320

CD(s)
~$1 ea
        Model, MUA, Stylist, and I each need one...if not two... $4-$8/shoot...let's just say $4

==================

I'm sure there is other stuff, but let's just draw the line there because I'm getting depressed.

So about $846.58 for a typical TFP shoot in cost... $696.58 without the photo assistant.

I have the same expense list... I can't afford to hire anyone anymore... I can't even affored myself and I may have to fire myself really soon.

James Jackson wrote:
I know I've posted this a couple of times, but usually in response to photographers asking how much to charge...  I'll try to remember everything for you, but sometimes I forget and leave out a bit on the costs of a photographer.

Camera - Pro level Canon 5D or 1Ds MKII
~$3,000 (with lens, filters, media, and accessories such as a tripod and flash unit)
            Only guaranteed to work for ~100,000 shutter actuations (that's clicks).  On the average test shoot I hit the shutter between 500-700 times.  So I use between 1/2 - 1% of my camera's life each shoot.  So that's $15 - $21 of pure depreciation per shoot.

Studio - Shared space in major city
~$200/month (that's really cheap, and done by sharing the space with other photographers)
             I shoot twice per month on average.  So $100 per shoot for studio space
-OR-
Location - Scouted spot in city or suburbs
~Free (may cost if location charges and a good excuse can't be made)
             The free location doesn't include the hours and hours spent wandering the city and suburbs surrounding my house and studio to find those locations though...and each one can only be really effectively used once...some valuable locations need to be saved for when their multiple looks could be used on money making shoots etc...  I spend about 10 hours per month scouting locations...I can't estimate the charge for this one...it's a lot of time and gas and pain in the rear.  SO let's just assume it's worth at least $100/shoot

Photo editing computer - really need something near the latest and greatest to do efficient photo editing with larger and larger files
~$3000
             This should last me ~4 years (on the outside) before I have to completely replace it with the next latest and greatest. So $31.25/shoot

Camera bag - Pro level bag...good padding...ergonomically correct for the large amount of equipment I carry
~$160 (also on the inexpensive side since I bought it from an Australian company when the exchange rates were heavily in our favor)
            Should last about 5 years.  2 shoots/month * 12 months a year * 5 years = 120 uses....  That's $1.33/shoot

Assorted photography supplies - Foam core, Gaf tape, Seamless paper, etc
~$10/shoot

Photo assistant
~$150/shoot

Some costs are equal model - photographer but do figure in to how much it costs a photographer to shoot:

Vehicle - Car or truck
~$20,000
            Should last about 10 years or 150,000 miles.  It's 15 miles from the studio to my house.  So, $2/shoot.

Gas and tolls
~$8 /shoot

---------------

Quick sub total - $167.58 for just the basics... $317.58 if you add the assistant

---------------

Some things are things that I have always included and will probably always do even if they may seem unnecessary.

Shoot snacks
~$10 /shoot

Shoot meal for model(s) and crew - one meal time usually goes by during a shoot
~$70 /shoot

Model travel expenses - if she's traveling far enough to have a large expense
~$50 /shoot

Makeup Artist
~$75 /shoot

Editing time - color correcting and retouching photos
~2 days (16 hours)/shoot
          At a normal pay rate for a photo retoucher that is $320...let's just say it takes me out of the game for two days and costs me more than that, but I'll let it go at $320

CD(s)
~$1 ea
        Model, MUA, Stylist, and I each need one...if not two... $4-$8/shoot...let's just say $4

==================

I'm sure there is other stuff, but let's just draw the line there because I'm getting depressed.

So about $846.58 for a typical TFP shoot in cost... $696.58 without the photo assistant.

gexcel wrote:
I have the same expense list... I can't afford to hire anyone anymore... I can't even affored myself and I may have to fire myself really soon.

So when you start looking for a new profession. . .perhaps accounting would be good.  Some of these photogs are gonna need one! 

Jayne Jones wrote:
What I don't get is. . .I keep reading these posts where photogs are saying that their expenses so far outweigh the model's.  More specifically the talk of camera body and lenses in particular being so expensive.  So. . .is it necessary to buy a new lens each time you have a shoot?  I thought that was pretty much a one time investment.  Hence my asking this question.

Jayne,  I think it's cool that you care to understand.  I don't maintain a studio so that's not a direct expense for me.  But, for the last two years, I'm up to $26,000 in equipment.  I don't buy the expensive DSLR's either.  I've got the Canon 10d and 20d.  These bodies at $1500.00 each need to be replaced every 12-18 months.  You see, something new comes out and you're considered a dipshit if you've got outdated equipment.  It doesn't matter if it's still a good tool.  Lenses and Lights stay around longer but a good lens can cost $1300-1800.  Remember, every piece of equipment we buys keeps charging us in maintenance and wear and tear.  Training in the last couple years is about $4000.

On my desk at home is an insurance bill for $660.  This covers my equipment and liability.  You see, if you trip and break something at my favorite venue, it'll be me paying to replace it.  Business license, another $150.00.  I'm easily up to $1000 in expenses to start the year.  I haven't made any money.  The bigest insult of course is when the County sends me a bill and says, add up the value of your equipment and send us a check for a percentage of it's value.

So, let's say I want to do a TFP shoot.  It's free right? Not really, I've got wear and tear on equipment I'm gonna have to replace.   Every time I click the shutter, that's an image that needs to be stored, looked at, and edited.  My time has value, so editing images costs money too.  Do I pay for an MUA.  Only if I care about the photos.  I won't pay for an MUA for a model with webpics in her port.  She's still a major gamble.  Then, printing.  Say 5 11x14's at 3.50-5.00 each plus $10.00 shipping.

Every time a photog says he'll shoot TFP with you I hope you will consider that fact that in my opinion without taking into account the value of time, he's putting $150-200 out the door to take photos that will hopefully pay off for you and them.

You also have expenses and we understand that.  I see incredible wardrobes that the model will lay down in a lake bed with.  Expensive outfit now needs an expensive cleaning.  If you're doing your own makup that adds up to.

I guess in the end, when a model and photog get together to do a shoot, it does cost money even if it's trade.  Both parties should show up ready to put forth a best effort.

David

Jayne Jones wrote:
Hello and How the hell are ya???
Newbie here with a question:
Exactly how much does a photo shoot cost?

For example. . .
If I hire a MUA, do my own hair and bring my own wardrobe. . .what's left?  The camera and lenses and digital method of storage right?  Ok. . .there are also lights and sets and whatnot (assuming you are shooting inside a studio).  Ok. 

What I don't get is. . .I keep reading these posts where photogs are saying that their expenses so far outweigh the model's.  More specifically the talk of camera body and lenses in particular being so expensive.  So. . .is it necessary to buy a new lens each time you have a shoot?  I thought that was pretty much a one time investment.  Hence my asking this question.

I get the whole. . .click = picture and finished product = time for retouching and downloading and whatnot.  But can someone purdy please walk me through this process?  Say you take 250 shots. . .on average. . .how much time will it take to produce say 50 good images?  And how much would that really cost you?  Line by line por favor.  What's all involved?  I really want to understand this.

Being a model, and being married to a photographer, I will say one thing.
You are not paying for the lights, ect. You are paying for the talent in the image.
Many people own cameras. or lights...but there is more to taking great images than that, the skill is not pushing the button and having the right lens, it is knowing the angles to create and the posing, it is knowing exactly when to "click"
If the photog you are working with takes 250 shots and only gets 50 good ones out of them, then he is not a good photographer.

Jayne Jones wrote:
Terry:
Well Okay!  As long as you can live w/that.

No that is just part of it, the over head your work isn't done yet. Now you have to figure in things like local market forces, what you want etc.