Wild Horse Photography wrote:

I don't know about the other photographers, but I'll be damned before I let a painted face twit like you devalue what I'm capable of doing and producing with a camera. You basically reduced me and my peers to monkeys trained to push a button. Only we have that right to make that distinction to suit our personal sense of humor.

But, there you have it fellas, a representative of the Napster generation has spoken to the community about the value (0) we as photographers bring to the table.

No wonder why these clowns feel we shouldn't get paid for shit.

That's it. From this point forward, I hope ALL photographers in the Intermediate to Advanced levels stop providing TFP, TFCD, TF-Whatever. The mentality that this guy has spoken of shows that it's clearly not in our best interests to Barter. I hope beginning Photographers take note and follow suit also. Shoot family members and product for TFP.

Photographers, if you barter, barter only with bonafide businesses, non-profit and grass roots organizations. They at least value what you provide and by golly, give you a freaking by-line in a published venue. Barbers also give free haircuts in exchange for your pretty pictures. The grandpa at my local seven eleven gives my kids free lollipops all because I shot and rendered a nice photo of him in his Santa outfit last Christmas.

LET THE PHOTOGRAPHER REVOLUTION BEGIN!

Edit: You're just a twit for the duration of how long it took you to write that one offending statement. No offense and my apologies.

I think it was pretty clear that the poster was being facetious for the sake of argument.

benson wrote:

AMEN SISTER.......what riled me up was the attitude of fabio that he was somehow doing the MODEL a favor.........

Whatever.......If I dont have a face to paint I am outta work...if he doesn't have a body to shoot he is outta work....If I wont paint your face and he wont shoot you then you are out of work......

We are a Gestalt............The sum is bigger than the parts!

My man Benson.  Finally someone that thinks it all the way through, and doesn't just think THEY are what holds it all together.

It's like the question, which came first the chicken or the egg?  Let's debate that for awhile.  Sounds like fun huh?

Wild Horse Photography wrote:
LOL. The bitch slapping we all do to each other in the community cracks me up. Benson, you're alright man and I meant no ill will upon you by referring to you as a painted face twit. I like the make-up man and the head pose! Very cool.

Anyhow, we aren't just camera button pushers. We have the "eye" that many of you depend on. People tend to think, developing that eye means going from photographer port to port copying their styles. Nope. That isn't the case. I can hand pick several photographers on this site alone, who like me, don't need to continually come here and source a port or magazine for ideas. We form a vision, create it and put it onto digital or print form. Most of us can run with an obscure idea and turn it into something, or another thing and well, there's just many things we bring to the table that just cannot be found in anyone with a camera.

Peace bruddah. May you get those images you've been waiting for.

Yes all true........that is indeed my entire point!

I also have "the eye"........I now get as much work shooting models as I do painting and dressing them....for me a former model it is full circle....and this of course all just informs my "real" career as a Designer of Fashions.......

Often I work behind the camera with the photographer making sure that every detail is perfect.....suggesting shots etc.....(of course this is only with photographers that I have worked with extensively)

I get hired based on the fact that I work hard until the shoot is over......The perfect shoot is one in which the entire crew is in synch!


Of course no hard feelings.......Just Hard ons!

benson wrote:
Of course no hard feelings.......Just Hard ons!

Thread hijacker!

Why does every thread turn to sex?

Suzi wrote:

Thread hijacker!

Why does every thread turn to sex?

because we are a sexy free thinking lot of people!

.: Klaudia :. wrote:
You know what?

The truth is - model photography cannot exist without both models and photographers.

Why not comprimise (trade) when applicable and make the best efforts to offer as much as possible to the other party assuming they would do the same for you. + Communicate Communicate Communicate.

Isnt that the best sollution for avoiding the dilema at hand?

I agree that model/fashion photography can't exist without both models and photographers.  But it would be inaccurate to say I would be out of work as a photographer without models, because the vast majority of photography gigs do not involve fashion models, they involve family portraits, weddings, advertising (commercial models/actors which may or may not be provided by an agency), etc etc.

benson wrote:

because we are a sexy free thinking lot of people!

What are you doing later?

benson wrote:
I will close by saying that ALL of you have amazing portfolios!

It was a pleasure to debate with such talented people!

Big Love!

~benson

Likewise Benson.

Cheers!

Amanda Schlicher wrote:
Except... I'm not really out of work without an internet model to shoot.  I make my living wage shooting weddings.  And you better believe that is damn hard work.

I am NOT saying that I don't like shooting models or that I think models are worthless.  I just think it's ridiculous to say that going to the gym is a business expense.  Do firefighters write off going to the gym?

I like models.  I've met a lot of cool ones, collaborative, creative individuals.  Goodlooking, energetic, friendly, and reasonable.  And I've met several with poor attitudes who have nothing to bring to the table except their gym contract.

]


Amanda going to the gym is a business expense for a model or actor......Trust me on this one.....Their is big money being traded to get these bodies......Any idea how much Madonna, Cher, Brad Pitt, Naomi Cambell, Heidi Klume or any of 1000's of models or actors pay personal trainers?........See a model HAS to have a perfect body......no ifs and or buts.....No choice it is what he or she brings to the tabel that and a face and ability to engage a camera!

Jayne Jones wrote:

ROTFLMBAO

Clever girl!!

That's why I have two in my portfolio! lol

Amanda Schlicher wrote:

I agree that model/fashion photography can't exist without both models and photographers.  But it would be inaccurate to say I would be out of work as a photographer without models, because the vast majority of photography gigs do not involve fashion models, they involve family portraits, weddings, advertising (commercial models/actors which may or may not be provided by an agency), etc etc.

True.
I was reffering to "model photography" as that is the subject at hand.
There is a lot of money in portraits, wedding, ads, etc etc etc so if photographers have a problem in "model photography" they are always free to move in that direction.

Some photogrpahers should think of that.
Unfortunately some photographers either cannot deal with working in an environment lacking creative freedom, keyword freedom, or do not posess the skills to aquire these jobs.
It's a great suggestion though, thanks.

Amanda Schlicher wrote:
side note:

this shot is pretty wicked



I don't really like the "K", but everything else about it rocks.

Thank You!

Case in point...Kumimonster is a world renowned model shot by Karima Cherif in this picture......I worked for a kit fee (I did 3 completely different looks all of them specialty)


we all worked TFP on spec etc

All 3 of us use the images in our various portfolios!

that is the beauty of TFP/CD!

Max V wrote:
whatta heck is tfcd anyways?

Grow up.

M.

I love a succinct man!

Del Ihle wrote:
Your class (Asians would say "face") is showing. No need to use the four letter words here. But your point is good.

You have 13 posts which prettly clearly indicates you don't frequent these forums too often...if you saw how many threads require the OP to have common sense explained to them in great detail you would use four letter words too.

oh and...

shit
shit
shit
fuck
tity
boob

Don't tell me how to post.

Max V wrote:
Wow, you are an angry dude...

M.

No just tired of people who say they want to be professional and then act the opposite. im tired of no shows, blow offs, last minute cancelations and reschedules. Im tired of being to told to go meet someone at a particular place get there and find out they arent there. leave and then get a call stating they got bored cause they got there early and went somewhere else and just lost track of time.

I have 2 tfcd shoots left. in the near future. and 3 others coming up.

you are all right.  Im done. no more tfcd. you are absolutely right. for those models who know me and have worked with me this doesnt apply to you.  if i have already talked with you about tfcd i wont go back on my word I would still love to work with you. you know who you are i have seen for myself that you are extremely professional and very thoughtful and thats all I could hope for. please forgive this rant.

The offer still stands to any model that wants to walk in a photographers shoes let me know I will help you make this happen.   This is truly a rare opportunity this is a good chance to take it.  I will even repost a new thread on it.

benson wrote:
If your opinion of models is so LOW why do you shoot them at all?

"Pompous beggars"

Um they are not begging they are asking to be given their part of the TRADE.....

TRADE: An exchange of one thing for another./ per Webster's Dictionary

Benson my friend:
Maybe I was misunderstood so let me clarify some things real quick like;
1: I was talking about the model the OP is referring to and those are the pre-Madonna’s who upload images captured with their mobile phones.
2: I love women and in no ways would I ever put down one or men just the acts of those who feel that MySpace is an agency and brown nose photographers to work with them with no intentions of ever doing anything with the images except replace them when ever they receive an update pic one week later.
3: This is a bad situation for the truly aspiring models and/or professional models like Klaudia who wish honestly to work with a photographer that she feels has some great talents and because of the amateur model/s before her the photographer has a bad taste in his or her mouth that she doesn’t get the opportunity to work with the photographer unless it’s paid work.

It’s really unfortunate that we have to have these experiences happen to us before the very descent models come are way and have the opportunity to work with someone special, who’s simply building a portfolio and only want the best images for the time they put into it.

i M a g e ye wrote:

Benson my friend:
Maybe I was misunderstood so let me clarify some things real quick like;
1: I was talking about the model the OP is referring to and those are the pre-Madonna’s who upload images captured with their mobile phones.
2: I love women and in no ways would I ever put down one or men just the acts of those who feel that MySpace is an agency and brown nose photographers to work with them with no intentions of ever doing anything with the images except replace them when ever they receive an update pic one week later.
3: This is a bad situation for the truly aspiring models and/or professional models like Klaudia who wish honestly to work with a photographer that she feels has some great talents and because of the amateur model/s before her the photographer has a bad taste in his or her mouth that she doesn’t get the opportunity to work with the photographer unless it’s paid work.

It’s really unfortunate that we have to have these experiences happen to us before the very descent models come are way and have the opportunity to work with someone special, who’s simply building a portfolio and only want the best images for the time they put into it.

thank you......I love your portfolio!

benson wrote:

thank you......I love your portfolio!

...And yours as well...You are very Talented. My hat off to you my frriend.

benson wrote:
But ummmm Fabio...........she didn't hold a gun to your head and force you to do a TFP/CD did she?

You agreed to it!....You made a deal and a trade......Maybe she is a stinky ho....maybe she isn't......She came... you shot .....she wants her CD.......Mail it already!

As to your challenge

I see you and raise you the addition of training 24 models to scuba and free dive the purchase of wet suits and fins.....The purchase of 22 scuba tanks Travel expenses to and from Cabo....An underwater camera housing.....The design and manufacture of underwater soft boxes.....and 2 years of time to get the whole shoot together.......Been there done that.........


Now let's see you design and manufacture 24 underwater couture garments....Buy or rent 4 industrial sewing machines......Buy or rent an industrial serger.......Buy or rent 80 yards of fabrics including silk chiffons PVC latex and rayon.....Buy gallons of textile dyes...(yes you will be hand dyeing all of your garments).......Buy or rent Dye vats......Pay the studio assistants.........Buy hundreds of dollars worth of make up for testing to find JUST the right products to use in a marine environment.....Pay 24 models to train for a year and a half to be under 50 feet of water made up and dressed with no goggles masks or scuba tanks (yes they were trained well enough to stay under for 2 hours or so with a diver to buddy breathe with BEHIND the camera).....Rent or buy boats with which to transport the models and equipment.....Find a Coral reef in North America......Travel to it.....Oh you may need to buy or rent a GPS so you don't get lost out in the big blue.......Now that is a shoot.......Go head you do it...I will assist!

Point being that WE all work hard buddy and we have all worked for trade...we have all been taken advantage of......Why are you carrying on like a poor redheaded step child about doing your job?

I see you and accept. I'm SSI certified in Monterey 53degree water 5 foot viz. Several dives under my belt.....lets do it.

FabioTovar wrote:
I see you and accept. I'm SSI certified in Monterey 53degree water 5 foot viz. Several dives under my belt.....lets do it.

this just might be a good working relationship!

Nemi wrote:

You have 13 posts which prettly clearly indicates you don't frequent these forums too often...if you saw how many threads require the OP to have common sense explained to them in great detail you would use four letter words too.

oh and...

shit
shit
shit
fuck
tity
boob

Don't tell me how to post.

Snot!

Nemi wrote:

You have 13 posts which prettly clearly indicates you don't frequent these forums too often...if you saw how many threads require the OP to have common sense explained to them in great detail you would use four letter words too.

oh and...

shit
shit
shit
fuck
tity
boob

Don't tell me how to post.

ok.. i DON'T want to be the one to tell Katie how to post... BUT...

Titty has (2) t's. 

benson wrote:
Why are you carrying on like a poor redheaded step child

I think you just insulted poor redheaded step children infering they carry on and on..
I hope there arent any here.

FabioTovar wrote:

I think you just insulted poor redheaded step children infering they carry on and on..
I hope there arent any here.

LOL