kickfight wrote:
Yep, this thread TOTALLY turned into the "worship Envy" thread, for very good reason.

Wait, wait....did we need a reason?!?

Bastards...I never get these memos...

Addie Juniper wrote:

Haha, well he is a photographer himself and actually a real person with opinions. You people act as if escorts are the scum of the earth. He can post whatever he wants, especially since he will have his own portfolio up soon.

Any agreement (TFCD, paid shoot, whatever) would be with you not him.

Pat Thielen wrote:

Hey! We get news here... sometimes. I mean, er... just yesterday there was something about coyotes being spotted in suburban areas... Fear the coyote! And, I'm sure something happened before that. There's an eelpout festival somewhere up north. And don't forget Paul Bunyan! So, yeah, I'm sure someone's heard of Minnesota.

  I wonder how Seattle is this time of year...?

Gee ... I feel like such a spoiled California punk!  Anything below 60 degrees is too cold for me!  LOL   But we have mountain lions out here.  I love the big cats!    As long as I don't run from them, they don't attack me.  lol

Sysamsbe wrote:

Great, Good luck with that.

Thank you!    Oh what was this whole thread about anyway?  I forgot! 

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Gee ... I feel like such a spoiled California punk!  Anything below 60 degrees is too cold for me!  LOL   But we have mountain lions out here.  I love the big cats!    As long as I don't run from them, they don't attack me.  lol

Believe it or not, we have them here as well. One was recently tranquilized fairly close to the city and relocated to a big cat shelter. And this has happened before; a few years ago there was a cougar wandering about near one of the major suburbs. It's very interesting how Nature is learning how to live with us, even though it appears we're still not ready to live with Nature.

  -P-

  And yeah, you're a spoiled California punk ! Anything below 60... sheez! It's a balmy 32 degrees here now. Time to hit the beach! Woohoo!

Addie Juniper wrote:

Hahahaha. Well, I can guarantee that when I took my clothes off for him the first time it was for a very different reason than when I take them off for photographers.

Sorry but I have to say    I hope you are taking your cloths off for yourself,
not for a photographer...
If you are doing it because a photographer wants you to,then i understand bf/escort wanting to be at all the shoots he can attend.
Oh and let me guess I bet he has taken some of the umm naked I mean nude shots for you as well ..

Oh I forgot this is just a hobby for the 2 of you (my bad)
I promise I am not trying to be mean. Just sheading some light

Addie Juniper wrote:
First of all, I can't believe how mean alot of the people on this site are! I've had good experiences with this site up until I posted that thread yesterday! Oh my god! I was just asking a simple question and then it turned into a crazy brawl with 300 people attacking me and my boyfriend. My boyfriend grabbed the laptop and wanted to contribute to the thread. I said it wasn't a good idea, but he did it anyway.

Actually, it was you and your boyfriend that got rude, and probably ruined any chance you have of working with anyone here again.

But, really, there was no point to the whole thread, either of them.

You were pissed off about turning down assignments where you couldn't bring an escort.  That was YOUR CHOICE.

You have a right to want to bring an escort, *BUT* the photographer/etc has THE SAME RIGHT to not want escorts present, and that means you two won't work together.

But, the bottom line, it's YOUR CHOICE to refuse a job because YOU can't bring an escort. 

It's also the photographer's right to allow, or disallow escorts, non-essential personnel, or anyone they don't want on set.   You do not have any divine right to work on any job you do not meet the qualifications, criteria, or situation for.

Deal with it.  It's *NOT* one sided. 

You found out how strongly people feel about it -- on both sides, and then you go and gripe about how people responded to your boyfriend's immature, rude, foul, and inappropriate postings.

I can understand why you *NEED* an escort.   

After all your boyfriend posted, there isn't a single person on this board who would want him near a shoot. 

You were given literally dozens, if not hundreds of really, really good reasons why a boyfriend/etc would not be welcomed on the set, and only a few reasons (usually because he'd be a pack animal) why he'd be welcomed.    If you didn't feel "comfortable" with the job, you shouldn't even be considering it with or without an escort.  It's just as easy to slip the escort a mickey, and spirit you off to the far east.

So, go crawl back under a rock, or keep posting "trolling" posts.

It won't get you work, and it won't get your boyfriend welcomed on a set.

And, if it does, *THAT* is the job you should be watching out for!



Oh no... still burning..... help!



nooooooo..... I'm burning up... help......



Phew... seems to have worked that time.

Scott
aka Bodyartist

**** Is there a way to post an FAQ with all the reasons for/against this, and just lock any thread that brings it up again with a pointer to the FAQ (unless, miraculously, someone comes up with something new?) ?  Same for TFP/CD?  Although, what would all the bored people here do without these sorts of threads to bring out their wit and cynicism. ******

**** FAQ's are the UseNet solution, and they seem to work ****

Addie Juniper wrote:

I'm pretty booked, yeah. I actually need to get some sleep! Thanks for posting!

My god, I have to wonder about the sanity of some photographers.

Addie Juniper wrote:
First of all, I can't believe how mean alot of the people on this site are! I've had good experiences with this site up until I posted that thread yesterday! Oh my god! I was just asking a simple question and then it turned into a crazy brawl with 300 people attacking me and my boyfriend. My boyfriend grabbed the laptop and wanted to contribute to the thread. I said it wasn't a good idea, but he did it anyway. And he's NOT an idiot with AOL type or whatever it is that someone says. The "O" key BARELY works on our laptop and he couldn't figure out how to get it to register. You have to press it a certain way, so he decided to just use the zero.That was just an extra thing for people to make fun of, I guess. I believe that he is entitled to give his opinion. He is just concerned with my safety and everything he said about himself is true. There are many photographers who can vouche for that. He is a big part of my life. I am BAFFLED at how much spite and negativity came out of that post. Modeling is fun for me. I'm pretty new at it, but it has become a really fun hobby for me and a nice way to make a little extra cash. I'm not looking to make it my career, I am actually a writer and want to pursue that. So everybody who made fun of me and my boyfriend, implied that I'm ugly or he's stupid or said that I'm just an ignorant amateur who doesn't know the "way things work"...those comments were unnecessary and mean. And cussing is something that we all do. I'm sorry if some think it's trashy, but I thought we were all adults and it's part of my language. I apologize if it offended some people and I probably should use more appropriate and respectful words in my post. Anyway, it is my personal decision to take escorts with me. I still believe that the photographer shouldn't be bothered by it and should want the model to feel as comfortable as possible. It's not that I am a child and need a "babysitter" like some of you so cleverly posted , it's that there are dangerous situations out there. A studio is different. Fashion shoots are different. But going to someone's house or hotel room and taking off your clothes for them can potentially lead to a bad situation and an escort makes me more comfortable. Either way, I haven't had any trouble getting shoots. In conclusion, you guys make me never want to post on here again. Ridiculous.

Addie, I do not believe that your boyfriend is an idiot. I think that a lot of photographers are more comfortable working 1 on 1 with a model. The fact that your boyfriend grabbed your laptop and wanted to contribute is precisely why I would not let him come to a photoshoot. What if he would want to contribute to the photoshoot? Obviously no absolute black or white answer here, only shades of gray. You will manage to find work with some photographers that are OK with it. And you will pass up others that will not accept it... I think this issue has been discussed way too much and should be put to rest...

Addie Juniper wrote:
Calm down, man! You've got some real spite going on. There is no need to patronize me and call me "little girl". What you fail to realize is that the model is paying YOU with photographs, as well. That is what a TFP is. A trade. The photographer is not the boss in that situation. Both parties are! What's a PEBCAK?

Yeah, TFP is a trade. However, the photographer can get ANY model, it doesn't necessarily have to be YOU. The model is NOT paying the photographer with photos, just her time, the PHOTOGRAPHER is paying the model with photos. And if the photographer is not comfortable with an escort, then he has a right to NOT WORK WITH ANYONE WANTING TO BRING ONE. If you can't deal with that, move on to the next photographer. There are some who don't care if you bring someone or not.

It's funny to hear how models and photographers differ on the trade value of TFP.

Zunaphoto wrote:
It's not trade, technically and legally, it's barter.  Two things of equal value.  Equal value.  Oh and, no model, no pic.  Then photographers are just useless chunks of glass and steel...oops, sorry, glass and plastic.  Every Wal-Mart can always find someone to work cheaper and under their conditions.  What an ironic attitude for any photographer, operating in the Arts to assume.  Ironic and pathetic.

I agree with you regarding the fact that it is a barter - TWO things of equal value. However, an escort is now a THIRD thing of what value to a photographer?

Zunaphoto wrote:
It's not trade, technically and legally, it's barter.  Two things of equal value.  Equal value.  Oh and, no model, no pic.  Then photographers are just useless chunks of glass and steel...oops, sorry, glass and plastic.  Every Wal-Mart can always find someone to work cheaper and under their conditions.  What an ironic attitude for any photographer, operating in the Arts to assume.  Ironic and pathetic.

Yeah, but this was about photographers who do not want to work with models who bring an escort. The photgrapher can always find a model who won't bring one, and the model can always find a photographer who is okay with her bringing one. THe OP's other thread was really a rant on the photographers who don't like it and this one is a rant about the people who attacked her and her BF in that thread. I didnt get to read all the way through that one, thankfully.

Trading is bartering.

Trade: dealings between persons or groups b (1) : the business of buying and selling or bartering commodities; exchanging one commodity for another

Barter:  to trade by exchanging one commodity for another


Either way, in the case of models and photographers who shoot models: one would be useless without the other.

Shawn Kuck wrote:
Someone stole my box of chocolates, WTF!!!

I was saving that for valentines day...


Shawn

  You were giving them to me right???

Addie Juniper wrote:
Haha, well he is a photographer himself and actually a real person with opinions. You people act as if escorts are the scum of the earth. He can post whatever he wants, especially since he will have his own portfolio up soon.

From reading the posts from the other thread and this one IMHO you act as though photographers are all rapists..

Zunaphoto wrote:
It's not trade, technically and legally, it's barter.  Two things of equal value.  Equal value.  Oh and, no model, no pic.  Then photographers are just useless chunks of glass and steel...oops, sorry, glass and plastic.  Every Wal-Mart can always find someone to work cheaper and under their conditions.  What an ironic attitude for any photographer, operating in the Arts to assume.  Ironic and pathetic.

The perceived value may be equal, but I don't believe in no model no pic.  I always have a backup plan.  A photographer doesn't need to shoot models.  I operate in the arts, with and without models.

Model Sarah wrote:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh I cant believe this is being brought up again.

Where is the banging head on wall thing? Hook a girl up.


side note* Envy we all love you

Wow Sarah , I have no idea what I did, but I need to do it more.

Addie Juniper wrote:
A studio is different. Fashion shoots are different. But going to someone's house or hotel room and taking off your clothes for them can potentially lead to a bad situation and an escort makes me more comfortable. Either way, I haven't had any trouble getting shoots. In conclusion, you guys make me never want to post on here again. Ridiculous.

Why is a studio different? You are implying that something bad couldn't happen in the studio.  If a photographer is going to attack you it doesn't matter where you are, location doesn't have anything to do with it.

James Jackson wrote:

It is the dichotomy of these two sentences that is getting you in trouble...and the double standard you are setting up with that dichotomy.

Just as it is your personal decision to take escorts, it is many a photographer's personal decision not to trust or like escorts...and unfortunately for you...the photographer is the boss.  So, unless you want to shell out the dough to hire the photographer for pay, at which point you become the boss, deal with it or don't model for those photographers.

It's like you are the only with the rights about how they're going to conduct business with these comments.  It can be turned with, "It is my personal decision not to allow escorts.  I still believe that the model shouldn't be bothered by it."  It's a two way street dear, it's quite simple, if a photographer says NO ESCORTS, then don't shoot with him/her, no big deal, just move along to the next photographer.

Addie Juniper wrote:

I don't agree that the photographer is necessarily boss.  Haha. In TFP, nobody is boss. It is a mutual agreement. Just like the photographer can find another model, I can find another photographer. But for pay, you are right; whoever is paying is boss. And yes, I just won't model for those photographers. And believe me, there are plenty who are okay with it.

You don't have to agree with it for it to be true...it just is.

Addie Juniper wrote:

And I have searched the forums, smartass. I haven't seen anything like that in awhile.

And see, the very thing you'r whining about, calling someone a smartass!!!!!  I just went to the Forum page and typed 'escort', returned 21 threads where this very topic has been discussed.

Doug Mackay    DMP wrote:
batman, yes robin? this is one nasty thread, shall i get the escort and kepow him now? no robin that is not the way we do it round here, we rebook with some one else , maybe the joker batman? yes robin why not.

LMAOROTF

Model Sarah wrote:

  You were giving them to me right???

of course Sarah, you know there's no other ... lol



Shawn

Addie Juniper wrote:

Haha, well he is a photographer himself and actually a real person with opinions. You people act as if escorts are the scum of the earth. He can post whatever he wants, especially since he will have his own portfolio up soon.

He may have opinions but guess what.. the photog doing the shoot most likely does NOT want his opinions, hence the reason why a lot of us don't like boyfriends or even escorts coming to the shoot.  You don't seem to grasp this concept.

Addie Juniper wrote:

I'm pretty booked, yeah. I actually need to get some sleep! Thanks for posting!

Oh stop lying... if you were so far booked up you would never have started the first thread in the first place.  Get over it.

Addie Juniper wrote:

I'm not crying or getting upset.... And there's no need to insult my abilities.

Huh?? where did you get the idea from that post he is insulting your abilities??  if  by him saying a pitiful sight, then you do realize that that statement is not a direct comment on your looks

Addie Juniper wrote:

What's a sluggo?

Why is it when someone responds to your thread with a well thought out responce blowing holes in many of your arguments, you reply with a question like "whats a sluggo" instead of really responding the the persons post.  You're a prime example of a person who as was mentioned before when presented with a few options or opinions and whatnot, you divert to asking silly questions or make silly statements.

You're like this super villian...The Diverter (i made that up) you can never be reasoned with, cold hard logic does not penetrate your diverter force field, you will believe whatever you want regardless of what is presented to you... you will stamp your feet and cry when things do not go your way... evil evil evil.  Someone find a priest for an exorcist.