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Nudity seems to dominate this site
I've been on modelmayhem for quite some time now. And I've got a few questions pertaining to nudity... perhaps dumb, but valid to me. Why does a model say "I don't do nudes" but there's at least one nude/semi-nude shot in her portfolio? Why are most of the male models damn near nude in their avatars? Why aren't these guys showcasing their ability to wear a fashionable outfit? Why do I as a photographer have to post half-nude images to get a lot of hits on my page? Why don't my artistic shots get comments but a shot with a glimpse of a but-cheek gets 50 hits by the time I leave work for the day? Is it me or do photographers have to work a little harder to get traffic to their page than models do? I feel these questions are valid because... well... the premise for them is true. But it's a truth that baffles me on a site that's supposed to be for marketing one's ability to sell an idea, product, or concept with their look. Are we surfing for business or just surfing in search of the most racy or controversial shots out there? Jan 23 06 02:35 am Link Jarek James wrote: I think this question has been discussed many times on other threads Jarek James wrote: Sex sells I guess. Jarek James wrote: Much of the traffic on public forums like this is "unqualified". There are a lot of people here for the entertainment. You just have use that knowledge to filter your responses down to reality. Jarek James wrote: Are you talking about entertainment traffic or industry traffic? Jarek James wrote: Both. Jan 23 06 02:49 am Link I hear ya on this one. I had to change up my avatar to get more hits. So, what I do is that I will have a "racy one" but when you come to my site that will be just about the only one. However, if you pick up any fashion mag, you will find the same thing: NUDITY. And, lots of it. So, It is fair to say it is a reflection of what is out there. However, there is out and out porn here too. Not sure what that is about. But, we are all welcome here I suppose. I think that your work is just fine. And, anyone who is serious enough will see that. Keep doing you. But, you may have to ride the fence a bit. And, I think the same goes for outside of this website. My "real port" has some randy images in there to get prospective clients attention. but, it is always fashion related. Like my latest avatar. This guy is in a revealing speedo. But, it is Moschino (very high end). You see the label. Also, the fur boots are real fur boots from Petit Peton, another high end label. You would see this is any mens fashion mag. But, I switch it up. Okay, I digress. I just wanted to say that I hear you loud and clear. I still think that your work speaks for itself. And, the right peeps that you would want to work with you will see it for sure. Jan 23 06 02:53 am Link Jarek James wrote: Because they can Jarek James wrote: Because their not here as fashion models Iâd guess. I think itâs a joke to the modeling industry as well to have so many male models posting poor quality, scantily clad images instead of quality commercial or print type work. Jarek James wrote: Who said you have to post images like that â by âhitsâ? do you mean views? I have no nudes in my profile because I shoot what I want when I want. Why do you feel you have to follow a trend? Be a leader and set trends. Jarek James wrote: The more you post the forums, the higher visibility you have. The higher profile you are, the more attention people will pay to you. Jarek James wrote: Iâm here to network with as many artists as I can in an effort to build my empire in the photography world. I do not want a comment left on my profile from a friend unless it has technical or artistic merit. Jan 23 06 02:53 am Link sex sells? Jan 23 06 03:08 am Link easyonthe eyes wrote: only to the weak minded Jan 23 06 03:14 am Link I just pose better naked. Jan 23 06 03:17 am Link I to have noticed that... Jan 23 06 03:18 am Link Miss Tempe 2006 wrote: Anthony has done some great nudes with me...have you seen them? Great photographer. Jan 23 06 03:20 am Link Iâm here to network with as many artists as I can in an effort to build my empire in the photography world. I do not want a comment left on my profile from a friend unless it has technical or artistic merit. and if it is not a friend ? couldn't be that I like one photo more than the others ? Jan 23 06 04:03 am Link I agree, some of my more technically correct shots with clothing recieves less fan fare than a happenstance implied/semi-nude shot. james Jan 23 06 04:21 am Link i guess it is the gwc and/or mlfff syndrome. james Jan 23 06 04:22 am Link GWC = guy with camera MLFFF = model looking for a Father figure or better stated, the Darth Vader Sydrome Jan 23 06 04:24 am Link Craig Thomson wrote: Then I must proudly announce that I'm the most feeble-minded member of the site...Although I'm too busy making my own porn to bother buying anyone else's. Jan 23 06 04:24 am Link yeah, I said it james Jan 23 06 04:24 am Link Jarek James wrote: Absolutely. Jan 23 06 04:25 am Link Littlejohn wrote: James..GWC( guy with camera) I've heard of, GWP(girl with pictures) I've heard of but MLFFF is definently a new one but I can't help but feel you've hit on a little something. They're in the dating world as well. Daddies stay home and take care of your little girls so when the grow up they don't have these issues!! Jan 23 06 04:35 am Link and your point is? Jan 23 06 05:40 am Link This site as with many others, seem to over flow with nude work. I myself have done nudes and had some posted once and it's amazing all of the response that I got on those photos. I have now removed all nude work from it. I don't get many hits like when those images were there, but I love to create photographs that are artistic and seen for what they are. I don't want my work looked at just so some one can get off on the bare naked lady photos. I have had an opportunity to shoot and work with a couple of famous people which is cool and it all stemmed, not from these sites, but from putting my own site online and having my work viewed via Robert Farbers workshop and the ASMP. I have received awesome repsonse to my stuff just through getting people in the businsess to see it. I have spoken with Andrew Eccles, Matthew Jordan Smith, and Sara Silver and these guys are for real. Like they say, shoot from your heart and just get the work out there and be persistent. I have found only a hand full of models(I can count them on both hands) through these sites though that I am working with presently along with some great make up artist who do appreciate creating beautiful work and know that beauty dousn't require you to be naked. Jan 23 06 05:56 am Link I'd like to take the moral high ground here. I don't think we have enough nudity on this site. At least 1/20 of each port must be non-nude (for those of us who weren't here early enough to get the big ports, anyway). So, we are limiting ourselves to 95 percent nudity. Obviously far too low a number. As for models getting more visitors, of course they do. The trick is to have your work in many models' portfolios, so people can see it and, deluded that they might look as good as that model, come to you to have great pictures done of themselves. Shooting some popular models will help with that marketing ploy. Reality check: This is a free site. It's regulated pretty well, but there's only so much that can be done with a free site. If you want a non-nude site or even one that's mostly non-nude, there are plenty out there. MM has plenty of models who "won't do nudes." In a quick search of my own zip code, I found models who won't do nudes outnumbered those who would approximately 4 to 1. We now return to our regularly scheduled debauchery. Jan 23 06 06:26 am Link Jarek James wrote: Model Mayhem is supposed to be for marketing one's ability to sell stuff? Jan 23 06 06:32 am Link Because this is a site dominated by a bunch of perverted men who thing they are photographers, and girls who think they are models!!! They all want attention! Whether its by a girl they want, but can't have sex with. Or its a girl who whats to be a exhibitionist. Sure, they are having fun...or at least looking that way. This site is Amateur Hour at its best....It full of people who don't have a clue about the real industry, have any known knowlege of photography. I don't mind nudity, but its too dominate because many photographers and models don't have the creativity to do otherwise. M Jan 23 06 06:32 am Link markEdwardPhoto wrote: This critique from a guy with a photo of a woman whose butt cheeks are hanging out and is holding a whip? Jan 23 06 06:41 am Link Michael McGowan wrote: I agree with this; I wouldn't vall this a "nude site" by any means. Granted, there'a a lot of it here, but there's also a lot of non-nude work as well. Being a photographer that does photograph the nude (as well as other genres) it has been my experience that the nude images attract the most attention. Sometimes to the point where people don't seem to realize that nude photography isn't what I do the most of; it's simply a part of what I do. So, when a person refers to this site as over-flowing with nudes I tend to think that perhaps they aren't noticing all the work that doesn't involve nudity. And it's also true there are many models, and some photograpers, that do not do nude work. Jan 23 06 06:46 am Link I'm new around here, so let me throw something out. I shoot for my stock image portfolio, and I am really surprised at the amount of nudity/erotica type imagery that people put in their portfolio here. It seems like this is the main focus of a site like this. Actually, when I am out looking for someone new to shoot, I want to see what they look like clothed. In bright light. With a smile on their face. In some kind of action. Aside from a crappy search engine, OMP annoyed me because of the low quality images people had up, as well as the lack of variety in type of images. But here, I'm seeing a lot of the same stuff. Pouty, moody, erotica type imagery. I can't be the only one who is would like a little variety in the portfolios to get a better idea of who you are. I don't shoot that, so it doesn't do me a lot of good to see it. Anyways, and maybe it's just the people that post in the forums, but while I've been lurking, underlying most any discussion on modeling, is a subtext about nude modeling and the venerable guy-with-camera thing. It's sort of wierd, and I'm still trying to figure out what most people are using this site to accomplish. So there's an outsider's 2 cents. Jan 23 06 07:56 am Link Oh dear... Jan 23 06 07:58 am Link markEdwardPhoto wrote: I was wondering what brought you here! Jan 23 06 08:13 am Link KM von Seidl wrote: Not just any photo of a woman whose butt cheeks are hanging out and is holding a whip...a really bad one! Jan 23 06 08:15 am Link You know, now that I think about it, you didnt see as much of the run of the mill nude shots when you had to by Chrome, shoot it, pay for processing, scan it in and then print............. thanks to digital many believe that if you own a stove your a chef........ and 90% of the girls on here just want sexy pictures. I'm willing to bet that no more than 5% (tops) have comp cards or gone to an agency to see about representation.. but you gotta love some of this stuff anyway.  Jan 23 06 08:15 am Link KM von Seidl wrote: Yes a photo that was paid for by the Model and does not show T&A gratuitously. This was her concept/idea. I do this for a living so, if this is what the client wants then that is what they get. Jan 23 06 08:17 am Link Jarek James wrote: None of the above. ModelMayhem, is obviously a place where models get all crazy and stuff. I'm here to find more of those wild and crazy models to make more naked pictures that have absolutely nothing to do with products, marketing or selling. They (the photographs) do however include concepts and ideas. Jan 23 06 08:27 am Link i hear your point, but this site is called model mayhem, not "fashion model mayhem" not every photographer on here is shooting for a magazine or catalog. i shoot alot of men, and was just in a forum and asked to remove a image of a nude in a waterfall, it was tasteful, and from what i thought, very well executed, I tried to contact the moderator and there was no response, at least not by this posting, so i checked the rules and it says no "porn"...My model was not hard and playing with any part of his body. i think censorship is a dangerous thing, that is why the sistine chapel's ceiling was grossly altered. Jan 23 06 08:31 am Link I am not half nude in my avatar picture. I would like to think what I am wearing is a fashionable business attire. But I know what you are talking about. There aren't many fashionwear picture in avatars (especially on the male side) Just wanted to give a post to get some cheap exposer :-) Then again, if you have the muscles...might as well flaunt them. Jan 23 06 08:48 am Link I have put a good, strong hold on doing those type of pics. Jan 23 06 09:00 am Link Jarek James wrote: Truth be told this site isn't about modeling at all, but those wishing to be a part of an industry where acceptance is very difficult. The site offers an extremely high level of "blind leading the blind" for moving beyond. The majority of modeling, sans the adult industry, has little to do with nudity and the actual basis on how models are used and photographed is lost or worse, not even known. Jan 23 06 09:07 am Link area291 wrote: I think you should go to the moderators and demand a full refund of the free you paid to be here. I don't know how you stand being the only sane man on the island, Chief Brodie. Jan 23 06 09:28 am Link Lapis wrote: Well, that is one thing I don't think anyone on the fourms will disagree with! Jan 23 06 09:53 am Link area291 wrote: Jan 23 06 10:20 am Link area291 wrote: Truth be told this site isn't about modeling at all, but those wishing to be a part of an industry where acceptance is very difficult. The site offers an extremely high level of "blind leading the blind" for moving beyond. The majority of modeling, sans the adult industry, has little to do with nudity and the actual basis on how models are used and photographed is lost or worse, not even known. The site has become a haven for those standing on the "artist" platform searching for those that bring no more qualification to model status other than accepting a part of conceptual statements made based on nudity. Participation brings nothing but more of the same for the model and personal gratification for photographers that lead them down that path. That is well and good for those choosing the nudity direction, but is highly detrimental to those wishing to branch out beyond the 'net as the imaging is useless for real world presentation. The Castings are evolving to Craig's List mentality for seeking nude-based work even bordering on levels including porn. Many site members also embrace those that are forthright in their open declaration of porn and sexual based imaging motivation. So your question relating to marketing and what those are surfing for is answered by where the site is beginning to level itself. Nudity becomes the path with the least resistance for acceptance by others for both models and photographers. There becomes no demand for meeting client expectations, no demand on quality and nudity for the sake of it can be easily passed off as artistic statement. That is far easier to do and a greater point of entry for making a statement than being accepted in an industry with extremely rigid demands. Welcome to 'net modeling photography...ooops, new here and trying to figure it all out ----------------------------------------------------------------- my response: what artist platform? shouldn't being creative be the first thing we all strive for, i know it is for me, but damn aren't we censored enough with the right wingers and our own government without beating each other up? I look at the worlds creative geniuses and remeber their own persecutions, davinci,. michaelangelo, many others, is the nudity in their work unnacaptable? Then why do their admirers flock to see it every year? In the end, what one man (or woman) considers art may be trash to someone else...but we should all respect the ones who view it as art. I look at it as an issue of respect...respect everyone. Jan 23 06 10:28 am Link Melvin Moten Jr wrote: Perhaps your explanation of the site would cast a different reality??? bubbaclicks wrote: Hmmm, bubba, I think that your explanation, although valid, isn't pertinent to what was being asked by the OP. Not even sure how it relates to what I wrote... Jan 23 06 02:30 pm Link |
