Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
so what are you doing to make this a better place? mayhem was designed to be an edgy community...the sites intent, is a mystery to all but a few people...who it is directed too..isnt blatently obvious..
i defended a young model...strongley chastizing those that attacked her..
you response was mostly sardonic comments that didnt further any disccussion, it was meant to show your "bad boy" attitude and rally the amatuers and you even poked fun at my name...
yeah i remind people how the real world works bunches of times..cause theres so much misinformation diseminated from the clueless..
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you..
and much like you i suspect, i wouldnt want to trade places..
and fear not..i have no affiliation with the site any longer...speak freely... This doesn't make you seem like a snob at all.... BRAVO!!! 
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.. Doug, I want to be cool about the whole "where you are" compared to many of the rest of us. I do acknowledge how advanced your are. No challenge there. Your work is really, really good.
My thing is, for example what you posted above... "a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.."..
You are really being a (MM, I respect you)... "not very nice person".
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.. Serevende Photography wrote:
Doug, I want to be cool about the whole "where you are" compared to many of the rest of us. I do acknowledge how advanced your are. No challenge there. Your work is really, really good.
My thing is, for example what you posted above... "a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.."..
You are really being a (MM, I respect you)... "not very nice person". no issues, i am the first to admit i am a rat bastard....but i am a respected rat bastard...well with some obvious exceptions...
EDIT: forgive me..radiacal amatuers is not what i meant...how 'bout "rebels"...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.. no issues, i am the first to admit i am a rat bastard....but i am a respected rat bastard...well with some obvious exceptions... So if you're a self acknowledged rat bastard, then why the condemning of other people being bacon eating rat bastards? Is it the "respect" that garners you bastardization privledges?
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Ransom J wrote:
So if you're a self acknowledged rat bastard, then why the condemning of other people being bacon eating rat bastards? Is it the "respect" that garners you bastardization privledges? my vemon was directed to a mob that was attacking a young model..
i thinkl i have an easier road to defend then those that attacked the young model...
whats worse in you mind..someone that kills a murderer or someone that kills an innocent child?
whats funny, in my local industry , i'm considered the "nice guy"..goes to show ya, its all relative..
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you.. no issues, i am the first to admit i am a rat bastard....but i am a respected rat bastard...well with some obvious exceptions...
EDIT: forgive me..radiacal amatuers is not what i meant...how 'bout "rebels"... Thanks... discuss?
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my vemon was directed to a mob that was attacking a young model..
i thinkl i have an easier road to defend then those that attacked the young model...
whats worse in you mind..someone that kills a murderer or someone that kills an innocent child?
whats funny, in my local industry , i'm considered the "nice guy"..goes to show ya, its all relative.. I think you're being disingenuous comparing people poking fun at a young model not taking the time to read or research (whether it be out of stupidity naivety or obstinance) and murder. They aren't the same.
Not even close.
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my vemon was directed to a mob that was attacking a young model..
i thinkl i have an easier road to defend then those that attacked the young model...
whats worse in you mind..someone that kills a murderer or someone that kills an innocent child?
whats funny, in my local industry , i'm considered the "nice guy"..goes to show ya, its all relative.. I think it's hilarious that you keep referring to a 15 year old as a child.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my vemon was directed to a mob that was attacking a young model..
i thinkl i have an easier road to defend then those that attacked the young model...
whats worse in you mind..someone that kills a murderer or someone that kills an innocent child?
whats funny, in my local industry , i'm considered the "nice guy"..goes to show ya, its all relative.. OK, then, is Doug's point here not worthy of a thread in and of itself? And damn be to you smoked, pork lover's!!!
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Ransom J wrote:
I think you're being disingenuous comparing people poking fun at a young model not taking the time to read or research (whether it be out of stupidity naivety or obstinance) and murder. They aren't the same.
Not even close. murder and mocking are certainly two different things...
my point was the same instance can be viewed in two different ways..
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
murder and mocking are certainly two different things...
my point was the same instance can be viewed in two different ways.. WTF?!
Murdering a child will always be looked at as murdering a child. Your logic is severly flawed.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lamonica wrote:
I think it's hilarious that you keep referring to a 15 year old as a child.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i think its funny that when your 30, you'll look back on your 22nd year and realize just what a child you were...mark my words...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
murder and mocking are certainly two different things...
my point was the same instance can be viewed in two different ways.. Lamonica wrote:
WTF?! Murdering a child will always be looked at as murdering a child. Your logic is severly flawed. your comprehension is seriously flawed..
murdering a child or mudering a murderer, well its murder...
but they can both be viewed differently
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
i think its funny that when your 30, you'll look back on your 22nd year and realize what a child you were...mark my words... I understand your logic but you're coddling.
At one year from 30 I can look back at 15 and see that i was severely immature. Impetuous. A know-it-all that knew nothing. And dangerously hard headed. But I was old enough to take a mocking on an internet message board. I was a young adult. Not yet a man but not a child any more.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Ransom J wrote:
I can look back at 15 and see that i was severely immature. Impetuous. A know-it-all that knew nothing. And dangerously hard headed. But I was old enough to take a mocking on an internet message board. I was a young adult. Not yet a man but not a child any more. ditto..but it would have been nice to have someone care enough to cover my back...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Ransomaniac
Posts: 12588
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
ditto..but it would have been nice to have some care enough to cover my back... Lessons learned in the school of hard knocks are lasting ones.
I should know, I've got a doctorate.
Photographer
bmjg
Posts: 308
Longwood, Florida, US
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Ransom J wrote:
Lessons learned in the school of hard knocks are lasting ones. you are wise beyond your years..
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
i think its funny that when your 30, you'll look back on your 22nd year and realize just what a child you were...mark my words... HA.... I seriousy doubt that!
I've been through more in my 22 years than you have probably experienced in your entire "I'm a professional so I'm better than everyone else life".
Get over it. Age doesn't not equal wisdom, which you have clearly displayed here.
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
murder and mocking are certainly two different things...
my point was the same instance can be viewed in two different ways.. your comprehension is seriously flawed..
murdering a child or mudering a murderer, well its murder...
but they can both be viewed differently That is not what you said and you know it. You compared murdering a child to someone "attacking" a fifteen year old girl in a forum. The two are not the same.... no matter how hard you try to make it so.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lamonica wrote:
"I'm a professional so I'm better than everyone else life". Get over it. could you site an example please?
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
so what are you doing to make this a better place? mayhem was designed to be an edgy community...the sites intent, is a mystery to all but a few people...who it is directed too..isnt blatently obvious..
i defended a young model...strongley chastizing those that attacked her..
your response was mostly sardonic comments that didnt further any disccussion, it was meant to show your "bad boy" attitude and rally the amatuers and you even poked fun at my name...
yeah i remind people how the real world works bunches of times..cause theres so much misinformation diseminated from the clueless..
and when i go back to my emails, ill find a bunch of the respected pros in agreement with me...and you will find the radical amatuers agreeing with you..
and much like you i suspect, i wouldnt want to trade places..
and fear not..i have no affiliation with the site any longer...speak freely... Is this source enough of your holier than thou attittude?
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lamonica wrote:
That is not what you said and you know it. You compared murdering a child to someone "attacking" a fifteen year old girl in a forum. The two are not the same.... no matter how hard you try to make it so. once again you are way wrong..dont you get tired of that?..what i said was:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my vemon was directed to a mob that was attacking a young model..i thinkl i have an easier road to defend then those that attacked the young model...whats worse in you mind..someone that kills a murderer or someone that kills an innocent child? ![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lamonica wrote:
Is this source enough of your holier than thou attittude? not so much...read the edit..i changed some of my verbage..
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
not so much...read the edit..i changed some of my verbage Why not change the OP... that's what I quoted and that's what people will read. Kinda doesn't leave the best impression.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Lamonica wrote:
Why not change the OP... that's what I quoted and that's what people will read. Kinda doesn't leave the best impression. my original post was meant to be strong, hard and offensive....it was meant to make people think twice about attacking others...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my original post was meant to be strong, hard and offensive....it was meant to make people think twice about attacking others... So, you attack others to teach them about attacking people?
IMO, it makes you no better than them.
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Has there been a point to this thread since the first page?
Doug, you are better than this. There comes a time when you need to recognize what you are wrestling with, and that you can't teach it to sing.
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Okaaayyyy, I thought this was a hypothetical situation? I had no idea this was a real thread, and have no idea what you're talking about, so I can't comment on it.
People hating on me for working with israel colon ALSO has nothing, what so ever, to do with this topic.
Lastly, I'm not a baconer, I much prefer pie, so I'm going to kindly bow out now, and let you and lamonica, duke it out.
I've never had a problem with you, and I see no reason to create one.
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my original post was meant to be strong, hard and offensive....it was meant to make people think twice about attacking others... Lamonica wrote:
So, you attack others to teach them about attacking people?
IMO, it makes you no better than them. if you enjoyed hitting someone for no reason..and never got hit back..you probably wouldn't stop..but if you got hit every time you hit someone..youd start thinking twice about it....
if someone attacked you for no reason or for doing something bonehead.....i would probably defend you too..even though you havent pulled any punches with me
or respect me...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
This is a joke that's gotten WAY out of hand.
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Christopher Ambler wrote:
This is a joke that's gotten WAY out of hand. Seconded, what the hell happened in here?
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
TXPhotog wrote:
Has there been a point to this thread since the first page?
Doug, you are better than this. There comes a time when you need to recognize what you are wrestling with, and that you can't teach it to sing. actually, its tough to see, but it has had its desired effect...
in my best deniro..."everytime i think im out, they pull me back in"....
and you're right ..im out...
![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Photographer
Sophistocles
Posts: 21320
Seattle, Washington, US
Nemi Bea wrote:
Seconded, what the hell happened in here? It was never about the bacon.
(and the sad part is that that's a serious statement)
Model
Nemi
Posts: 27413
Jamaica, New York, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
actually, its tough to see, but it has had its desired effect...
in my best deniro..."everytime i think im out, they pull me back in"....
and you're right ..im out... ...close the thread?
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24376
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
we dont have to lock it, we can let it die... ![https://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png]()
Model
Fifi
Posts: 58134
Gainesville, Florida, US
Doug Swinskey wrote:
Doug Swinskey wrote:
my original post was meant to be strong, hard and offensive....it was meant to make people think twice about attacking others... if you enjoyed hitting someone for no reason..and never got hit back..you probably wouldn't stop..but if you got hit every time you hit someone..youd start thinking twice about it....
if someone attacked you for no reason or for doing something bonehead.....i would probably defend you too..even though you havent pulled any punches with me
or respect me... Respect you? I'm sorry, respect is earned.... I don't know you, so I don't feel that you automatically earned my respect.
Oh yeah... when I was a "newbie" I was attacked (for the stupidest of reasons) by a very well known photographer on this site. I wasn't attacked for posting a redundant thread, I was attacked because I didn't agree with someone. That, in my opinion, is ridiculous. But, I stood my ground, and defended myself because I had the common sense to realize that people in this industry are assholes and they will always be assholes.
I'm not naive... I know people can be rude. The sooner the newbies learn it, the better off they will be in the long run.
Photographer
A Perfect Reflection
Posts: 351
PLANTSVILLE, Connecticut, US
Spam is gooood! Wonderful Spam. I like Spam! Do you like Spam?.......Oh yeah, we're talking about Bacon... Chris Macan wrote:
Mmmmm Pork products.....
Bacon
Sausage
Scrapple
Ham
Ribs
Spam
Chops
It's all good!
Photographer
Nihilus
Posts: 10888
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Let's put all of this into perspective. You're all blathering about the leaves, when the trunk of the tree isn't such a big deal.
The initial "bacon" comments of said thread weren't actively berating the model, even if they were the online equivalent of whispered giggles by audience members with an inside joke. It was perhaps rude (and most of the posters of said commentary recanted in that very thread), but no heavy ill will was ever intentional. I've seen more aggresively aloof comments to newbies before.
By the time Doug was done defending the girl and comments about a 'learning the ropes the hard way' alternative had gone Round 1, this whole debacle was being championed as the quintessential example of "Tough Love" versus "Nurturing Love"....when it's a piss-poor example for either side to be making definitive ultimatums about.
Then...by Round 2, everyone had pretty much sunk themselves in for the long haul, and decided to duke out the fight...each standing firm in the extreme of each polar opposite view. Everyone forgot the girl...it became an issue of principle.
Everyone is Straw Manning the other's position when, in reality, a healthy dose of both real sides best serves a newbie learning the ropes.
Being snooty and immaturishly rude isn't a nice way to welcome new people. It's a byproduct of the message forum mentality that veteran posters will get to a point where the same noob comments/questions/uncertainties start getting either humorous and perhaps annoying...but that's a reflection of how often we've encountered it, not how often the newbie has asked it.
On the other side, there is something to be said for expecting even a brand new person to the 'MM world' to do the minimum of investigation into what basic protocol is involved into the area of expertise they seek to break into. Even if you didn't slightly ridicule someone wanting to become a chef when they seemed unaware of the difference between broiling and sauteeing, you'd at least wonder how interested they really are at what they intend to pursue.
This was an issue of personal etiquette and ethics that started spilling over into industry professionalism and know-how. Personally, I've always been of the thought that vanity is wonderful in proportion to the credentials of the wielder, so let's not get carried away decrying the evils of a 'holier than thou' attitude...for these are the sorts of people who can offer the most insight to newcomers and amateurs.
A revolutional divide between seasoned professionals and amateurs erupting over a truthfully minor incident benefits no one.
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