Photographer
Jack Blake
Posts: 162
Mission Viejo, California, US
I've been laying low of the forums lately, just cuz I'm so busy.. But there's something that's bugging me.. thought I'd just spit it out for the heck of it. I've been a pro-photog for about 25 yrs.. Now granted, I haven't been in this part of the industry for too very long (hence this post) so I'm not so familiar with how things are supposed to work.. Wanna say first: I understand a pro-model wanting to get paid for what they do, as that's the definition of "professional".. (right?) But.. I've NEVER experienced so many wanting my photography for free.. or not at all. I KNOW I'm not the best photographer in the world, nor even on this site.. But I also know that I'm pretty freakin' good at what I do.. I EXPECT to get paid for it unless the model brings something to my portfolio that ADDS to it.. Not just the stuff I've already done. Why is it that even "aspiring" models don't feel they should pay? After sending me nice notes saying how much they "love my style and would love to work with me someday" (EVER so enthusiastically!!) they disapear once I bring up the fact that I DO THIS FOR A LIVING and want to get paid for it?? Is my photography that commonplace that they'd feel they shouldn't pay for it? (don't be afraid to say what you think, cuz I really don't base my opinion of my work on what others think of it).. Or is it just that they want their cake and eat it too?? My mua and I have started taking "apps" for our pinup calendar.. and it's gonna freakin' rock.. But once I tell the models they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya.. poof, they're gone. "I'd love to be involved cuz your work is awesome, but I'm sorry I want my portfolio built for free".. I just don't get it. k.. end of rant. hope all had a good holiday season!! JB: Eye2Eye  )
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
I think the advent of consumer digital cams had a lot to do with this..... 
Photographer
fstopdreams
Posts: 4300
Chattanooga, Tennessee, US
StudioMona wrote:
I think the advent of consumer digital cams had a lot to do with this..... Consumer digital cams don't replace talent, lots of practice and a pro photog's good eyes. But you know that because you have all three of those things 
Photographer
radar
Posts: 860
New York, New York, US
Trevor Snyder wrote:
Consumer digital cams don't replace talent, lots of practice and a pro photog's good eyes. But you know that because you have all three of those things too bad models don't realize that...
Photographer
Jack Blake
Posts: 162
Mission Viejo, California, US
Trevor Snyder wrote:
Consumer digital cams don't replace talent, lots of practice and a pro photog's good eyes. But you know that because you have all three of those things Well.. we can take that a step further, as I've seen MANY ports on here taken by phones!!
"you don't need a photographer.. all you need is a tmobile acct!!! Camera is FREE!!"
Welcome to professional modeling at it's finest. 
Model
Adieu
Posts: 6427
Meh. Most the chicks on this site just want pretty pictures. Eff'em.
Model
Shyly
Posts: 3870
Pasadena, California, US
My suggestion is to indicate in your profile that you are only interested in paying work. It will help somewhat to cut down on the requests you get. You should understand, though, that MM is not a great source of income for most photographers on here. This really is TFP-land, and where a lot of the working photographers come to blow off steam, or find models to collaborate with on personal projects. A huge number of the models on here are hobbyists who will never make a living modeling, and as such aren't out to invest in a portfolio that will yield monetary results for them down the line. They don't mean to insult you; this is just a different world than you're used to. Happy new year.
Model
Adieu
Posts: 6427
Shyly wrote:
A huge number of the models on here are hobbyists who will never make a living modeling People think the same for photographers.
I suppose models think the photographer just do this 'for fun', and they don't realize some actually have to make a living off of photography.
Model
123455534343
Posts: 9488
Arthur's Town, Cat Island, Bahamas
Shyly wrote:
My suggestion is to indicate in your profile that you are only interested in paying work. It will help somewhat to cut down on the requests you get. You should understand, though, that MM is not a great source of income for most photographers on here. This really is TFP-land, and where a lot of the working photographers come to blow off steam, or find models to collaborate with on personal projects. A huge number of the models on here are hobbyists who will never make a living modeling, and as such aren't out to invest in a portfolio that will yield monetary results for them down the line. They don't mean to insult you; this is just a different world than you're used to.
Happy new year. Yeah, what she said. Shyly, you're so insitful and always find the best way of saying things. I think I could follow your posts all day.
Photographer
richard boswell
Posts: 1790
New York, New York, US
that would be against the rules. rich but we could go to the banner above ... wrote:
Meh. Most the chicks on this site just want pretty pictures. Eff'em.
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
First of all: I wish I had a polite way of saying "mind your own business", as in this:
Models are perfectly within their rights to
request the compensation they want,
regardless of their abilities & experience.
Photographers are perfectly within their
rights to choose not to meet a model's
request/demand for compensation. Make
a counter offer or politely decline.
But who gives anyone the right to imply
that a model is wrong to choose not to
pay photographers?
Sorry, but I don't think it is professional behavior to come to this forum & rant about models not wanting to pay you.
Second of all: if you are like me, you got help along the way as you learned your craft, and some of us feel that giving beginning models TFP or even some pay is a good way to pay back those folks that helped us out when we were starting out. It never hurts to be generous. It is, of course, your decision whether you want to do TFP or to pay models -- I won't come onto this forum and rant about a photographer who decides that he doesn't want to do TFP or to pay models.
Finally: I personally like to pay models -- it encourages them, and it is less than 4% of my overall expenses (equipment, studio, web site, PC, software, etc.) -- more, the modeling fee is pre-tax & tax deductible, so in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a whole lot of money. You do what you want, but that's what makes me feel good.
Photographer
Jack Blake
Posts: 162
Mission Viejo, California, US
Looknsee Photography wrote:
First of all: I wish I had a polite way of saying "mind your own business", as in this:
Models are perfectly within their rights to
request the compensation they want,
regardless of their abilities & experience.
Photographers are perfectly within their
rights to choose not to meet a model's
request/demand for compensation. Make
a counter offer or politely decline.
But who gives anyone the right to imply
that a model is wrong to choose not to
pay photographers?
Sorry, but I don't think it is professional behavior to come to this forum & rant about models not wanting to pay you.
Second of all: if you are like me, you got help along the way as you learned your craft, and some of us feel that giving beginning models TFP or even some pay is a good way to pay back those folks that helped us out when we were starting out. It never hurts to be generous. It is, of course, your decision whether you want to do TFP or to pay models -- I won't come onto this forum and rant about a photographer who decides that he doesn't want to do TFP or to pay models.
Finally: I personally like to pay models -- it encourages them, and it is less than 4% of my overall expenses (equipment, studio, web site, PC, software, etc.) -- more, the modeling fee is pre-tax & tax deductible, so in the grand scheme of things, it isn't a whole lot of money. You do what you want, but that's what makes me feel good. Well... Since being a part of this site, I've done 8 shoots for free.. so call me selfish if you like. It did make me "feel good" and I got some nice results from them, as did the models.
And yes, I've gotten help "along the way".. AND I'm doing my fair-share of "payback" for it.. I understand the concept.
ummm... not professional behaviour??? lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you actually READ some of the stuff that's posted on this site?? crimeny.. If MY behaviour is unprofessional just for a little rant-out about wanting to get paid now and then.. what do you call all the profanity and nastiness spewed all over the place on here??
holy moly.. 'scuse me.. I'll try not to burp at the table.
Photographer
Grandart
Posts: 741
Chicago, Illinois, US
With the disappearance of film as part of the cost of doing business, almost anyone with a digital camera can produce a fairly good picture. I saw the same thing happening in the 70's in the editorial business. The magazine editors started to take Canon AE-1's out because of the auto exposure feature and photographed their own stories in order to save a buck. The pictures all looked alike, neither very good nor totally awful.
The same is happening with the digital camera and the internet. The internet makes all photographers look alike (except for a few people with discriminating eyes and taste) and the digital camera gives pretty good exposures.
Looking at the problem from the model's vantage point, how is the model going to choose which photographer to use? You, J.B. with 25 years experience, a digital camera and a bill for your services or Joe Blow (no relative of yours) with uncertain experience, a digital camera and it's for free? You're both on MM, right? The problem is the model does not have the training or the eye to see who produces the better work and the better work usually comes from a more experienced photographer. It's only after a few years that the model starts to see who shot the better pictures, because they are the ones that stay in her portfolio. The real question is, How are you going to eat in the meantime?
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Jack Blake wrote:
ummm... not professional behaviour??? lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you actually READ some of the stuff that's posted on this site?? crimeny.. If MY behaviour is unprofessional just for a little rant-out about wanting to get paid now and then.. what do you call all the profanity and nastiness spewed all over the place on here??
holy moly.. 'scuse me.. I'll try not to burp at the table.
Sorry, but to me, a professional will understand negotiation and that sometimes the best move is to walk away from a deal that isn't good enough. It happens often.
The unprofessional part is coming to this forum & trying to make it sound like the models are being unreasonable for not wanting to pay you for your services. You offered services at a rate, they declined & walked away. It happens. Why rant here?
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7771
Lubbock, Texas, US
What do you mean by "they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya?"
Are you asking them to reduce their fee, work for nothing, or pay you for the privilege of being your calendar?
If you're shooting a calendar which you intend to sell, then you should be paying the models. You should set a rate that allows you to make a profit from your minimum anticipated production run. If you can't make a profit at that number, set the rate lower. Either you find models willing to work for that number, or you don't. If you don't then either write another business plan that sells more calendars, find uglier models with less talent and experience, use your sisters and ex-girlfriends, or you move on to another project. It's simple business.
Photographer
Daniel Leon
Posts: 1389
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
If you come to this site to make a living youre biting your own tail to begin with.
Photographer
S T A G E 4 D E T
Posts: 265
Detroit, Alabama, US
Ain,t this familiar,,,
I do believe I spoke on this issue before,, everybody wants that 15 minutes of fame, There is a lot of talent out here that cares not one bit what they do to get attention,this is can be model wannabees, and photographer wannabees, I think that too many people have come to the idea that since it,s digital and instant ,,it should be cheaper or free,, I have always believed in paying a person an honest wage for what they do,this goes for especially those who feed there family,or have tremendous overhead such as studio,staff,payrolls etc.. and the same should apply for pro-models as well ,even if you negotiate with the agency a 1 or 2 hour shoot time frame thats at least workable,, I have watched this industry
change after 30 years behind the camera,on one end it,s good and the other,, the pros are the ones that really suffer because everyone and there mother is either all of a sudden a model,or photographer,I have not met one person with a new digital high end camera want to go into forensic,medical,industrial,or some other form of photography except wannabee a fashion or glamour shooter, even some of the top people in the industry aren,t getting the big fees, So before you say tfp or tfcd look at your utilities,rent, and all the other expenses,,And then think about it. am I makeing sense..
Model
Catriona
Posts: 3674
Portland, Oregon, US
grandart wrote:
With the disappearance of film as part of the cost of doing business, almost anyone with a digital camera can produce a fairly good picture. I saw the same thing happening in the 70's in the editorial business. The magazine editors started to take Canon AE-1's out because of the auto exposure feature and photographed their own stories in order to save a buck. The pictures all looked alike, neither very good nor totally awful.
The same is happening with the digital camera and the internet. The internet makes all photographers look alike (except for a few people with discriminating eyes and taste) and the digital camera gives pretty good exposures.
Looking at the problem from the model's vantage point, how is the model going to choose which photographer to use? You, J.B. with 25 years experience, a digital camera and a bill for your services or Joe Blow (no relative of yours) with uncertain experience, a digital camera and it's for free? You're both on MM, right? The problem is the model does not have the training or the eye to see who produces the better work and the better work usually comes from a more experienced photographer. It's only after a few years that the model starts to see who shot the better pictures, because they are the ones that stay in her portfolio. The real question is, How are you going to eat in the meantime? The thing is, it really seems as though experience does matter, but only to an extent. If a photographer spends years of time learning through rote memorisation how to become technically competent, but lacks fresh ideas and an eye for what makes an interesting photograph, then the photos he takes after 20 years or so will "improve" in the sense that his exposures will be right on almost all of the time instead of some of the time or occasionally if he's lucky, but otherwise - in terms of composition, content, etc. - will be virtually indistinguishable from what he produced at the beginning of his career.
A LOT of the photographers who come in here grousing that models should pay them for their years of experience don't want to face this fact, and I can understand why. It can't be fun to realise that you may have just spent decades of your life learning something only to get very little back for it, and that the reason may be that you produce work that is not significantly better - and is sometimes worse - than that of people who just picked up a camera last year. But that's the long and short of it: This industry is about end result, regardless of experience. If your work is merely okay and does not stand out, why should a model pay you for it when she can get the same or better for free?
Model
Stacy
Posts: 2505
Englewood, Florida, US
C David Stephens wrote:
What do you mean by "they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya?"
Are you asking them to reduce their fee, work for nothing, or pay you for the privilege of being your calendar?
If you're shooting a calendar which you intend to sell, then you should be paying the models. You should set a rate that allows you to make a profit from your minimum anticipated production run. If you can't make a profit at that number, set the rate lower. Either you find models willing to work for that number, or you don't. If you don't then either write another business plan that sells more calendars, find uglier models with less talent and experience, use your sisters and ex-girlfriends, or you move on to another project. It's simple business. The same question ran through my mind... is he asking that models pay him for the privalege of working for him? Meanwhile, he's making a profit off of the calendar?
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
Jack Blake wrote:
I KNOW I'm not the best photographer in the world, nor even on this site.. But I also know that I'm pretty freakin' good at what I do..
I EXPECT to get paid for it unless the model brings something to my portfolio that ADDS to it.. Not just the stuff I've already done....
"I'd love to be involved cuz your work is awesome, but I'm sorry I want my portfolio built for free"..
I just don't get it. Just to preface: I know I'm not the best model in the world, or even on this site -- but I AM pretty good at what I do.
I expect to get paid for it unless the photographer brings something to my portfolio that adds to it -- not just the stuff I've already done.
"I love your portfolio/I think you're beautiful and I'd love to work with you -- but I'm sorry, I want you to do it for free/I want you to pay ME.
It goes both ways.
You DO have some nice images in your portfolio, I won't dispute that; but with one or two exceptions, the photos in your portfolio are not different enough from what I've already done to inspire me to pay you.
Jack Blake wrote:
My mua and I have started taking "apps" for our pinup calendar.. and it's gonna freakin' rock.. But once I tell the models they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya.. poof, they're gone. Is this a charity project? Are you giving them away?
Pay YOU for the privilege of being in your calendar?? I don't think so....
Photographer
Jack Blake
Posts: 162
Mission Viejo, California, US
C David Stephens wrote:
What do you mean by "they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya?"
Are you asking them to reduce their fee, work for nothing, or pay you for the privilege of being your calendar?
If you're shooting a calendar which you intend to sell, then you should be paying the models. You should set a rate that allows you to make a profit from your minimum anticipated production run. If you can't make a profit at that number, set the rate lower. Either you find models willing to work for that number, or you don't. If you don't then either write another business plan that sells more calendars, find uglier models with less talent and experience, use your sisters and ex-girlfriends, or you move on to another project. It's simple business. The models will be recieving professional photography at a very cut rate. 10 new pics, cd printables and web pics.. I started my post with the statement that I expect professional models to want to be compensated for their services. That is NOT in question!! Of course they do!
My "target" base has always been aspiring models that want to build their ports. They get to be a part of the calendar, recieve some exposure and some of the best work I can produce for a couple of hundred bucks. Pretty cheap I was thinkin'..
So perhaps I'm wrong in wanting to make a living? Capitalism only works for pro-models and not photogs?
I won't be selling the calendar.. ALL I'll be doing is canvasing for a sponsor to pay for the printing of it.
eh.. why I posted was to get opinions.. lol! Those are never in short supply on here.
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Trevor Snyder wrote:
Consumer digital cams don't replace talent, lots of practice and a pro photog's good eyes. But you know that because you have all three of those things Thank you kindly
Photographer
Studio Spike
Posts: 978
New York, New York, US
I find these whiny 'why can't i get paid' threads really obnoxious.
Ok, so you're a competent photographer, you know your fstops from your monopod....but what are you offering that a model can't get from exactly one zillion other photographers?
If a model can test for free, why should she pay?
You get paid when you offer a service people want...it doesn't mean you have to be any good as a photographer, it might all be about hustle, networking etc.
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
Jack Blake wrote:
The models will be recieving professional photography at a very cut rate. 10 new pics, cd printables and web pics.. I started my post with the statement that I expect professional models to want to be compensated for their services. That is NOT in question!! Of course they do!
My "target" base has always been aspiring models that want to build their ports. They get to be a part of the calendar, recieve some exposure and some of the best work I can produce for a couple of hundred bucks. Pretty cheap I was thinkin'..
So perhaps I'm wrong in wanting to make a living? Capitalism only works for pro-models and not photogs?
I won't be selling the calendar.. ALL I'll be doing is canvasing for a sponsor to pay for the printing of it.
eh.. why I posted was to get opinions.. lol! Those are never in short supply on here.
A couple of HUNDRED BUCKS to be in your calendar?
A calendar that you're going to find a sponsor to pay for??
A calendar that you aren't going to sell?
You just really need a new calendar for the office that bad, and you don't like what you've seen in the stores?
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7771
Lubbock, Texas, US
Jack Blake wrote:
My "target" base has always been aspiring models that want to build their ports. They get to be a part of the calendar, recieve some exposure and some of the best work I can produce for a couple of hundred bucks. Pretty cheap I was thinkin'..
So perhaps I'm wrong in wanting to make a living? Capitalism only works for pro-models and not photogs?
I won't be selling the calendar.. ALL I'll be doing is canvasing for a sponsor to pay for the printing of it. Wow. What a concept!
I'd like to announce my new art nude calendar for 2008. Models please contact me at once. You'll be expected to kick down and pay me of course, and get nekkid, for the privilege of being in my new calendar.
P.S. Corporate sponsors wanted: I accept cash, checks, credit cards, Paypal (oops, it's nude, so Neteller).
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
C David Stephens wrote:
What do you mean by "they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya?"
Are you asking them to reduce their fee, work for nothing, or pay you for the privilege of being your calendar?
If you're shooting a calendar which you intend to sell, then you should be paying the models. You should set a rate that allows you to make a profit from your minimum anticipated production run. If you can't make a profit at that number, set the rate lower. Either you find models willing to work for that number, or you don't. If you don't then either write another business plan that sells more calendars, find uglier models with less talent and experience, use your sisters and ex-girlfriends, or you move on to another project. It's simple business. Jack Blake wrote:
The models will be recieving professional photography at a very cut rate. 10 new pics, cd printables and web pics.. I started my post with the statement that I expect professional models to want to be compensated for their services. That is NOT in question!! Of course they do! so basically this is a tfcd/tfp shoot you are offering
Jack Blake wrote:
I won't be selling the calendar.. ALL I'll be doing is canvasing for a sponsor to pay for the printing of it. and the sponsor will sell the calendar then? not sure about your marketing stratagem here..
Jack Blake wrote:
eh.. why I posted was to get opinions.. lol! Those are never in short supply on here.
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
C David Stephens wrote:
Wow. What a concept!
I'd like to announce my new art nude calendar for 2008. Models please contact me at once. You'll be expected to kick down and pay me of course, and get nekkid, for the privilege of being in my new calendar.
P.S. Corporate sponsors wanted: I accept cash, checks, credit cards, Paypal (oops, it's nude, so Neteller). rofl
Sign me up!
(Seriously -- if I had money to spare, YOU are one of the photographers on my list of photographers I'd pay to work with. sigh....)
Model
Celia Cyanide
Posts: 569
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Jack Blake wrote:
Why is it that even "aspiring" models don't feel they should pay? After sending me nice notes saying how much they "love my style and would love to work with me someday" (EVER so enthusiastically!!) they disapear once I bring up the fact that I DO THIS FOR A LIVING and want to get paid for it?? Probably because they are looking for TFP, and they are hoping that they can add something to new to your portfolio. If you don't think they have it, you are welcome to say thanks, but no thanks. Instead of paying, they will probably move on to another photographer who would like to shoot with them. It's not a reflection of their opinion on your work.
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
StudioMona wrote:
so basically this is a tfcd/tfp shoot you are offering I see the smiley face, so I'm not sure if you're joking or not: did you read his post? The only trade involved here is a couple of hundred bucks from the model, traded for the aforementioned cd's/prints/whatever and the privilege of being in the calendar....
Model
Stacy
Posts: 2505
Englewood, Florida, US
So.. The sponser pays for the printing. And models pays for Mua, props and everything else. PLUS extra cash for your pocket so that they have the privalege of working with you? And the calendar? You're giving it to who? and for free? So... how does the model benefit? Is this something that will give the model lots of publicity? For a few hundred, I hope so.
maybe I'm just confused?
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7771
Lubbock, Texas, US
Carole Hayes wrote:
rofl
Sign me up!
(Seriously -- if I had money to spare, YOU are one of the photographers on my list of photographers I'd pay to work with. sigh....) I'll kick in a CD and a couple of calendars. I'll even sign them with a Sharpie.
Model
Catriona
Posts: 3674
Portland, Oregon, US
Jack Blake wrote:
The models will be recieving professional photography at a very cut rate. 10 new pics, cd printables and web pics.. I started my post with the statement that I expect professional models to want to be compensated for their services. That is NOT in question!! Of course they do!
My "target" base has always been aspiring models that want to build their ports. They get to be a part of the calendar, recieve some exposure and some of the best work I can produce for a couple of hundred bucks. Pretty cheap I was thinkin'..
So perhaps I'm wrong in wanting to make a living? Capitalism only works for pro-models and not photogs?
I won't be selling the calendar.. ALL I'll be doing is canvasing for a sponsor to pay for the printing of it.
eh.. why I posted was to get opinions.. lol! Those are never in short supply on here.
Well, of COURSE your target base is "aspiring models" - that seems to be the case for most mediocre photographers who are hoping to make cash off models, because they've figured out to at least some extent that a model with a little experience will realise that better work can be had elsewhere for free or a better price. Heck, EyeWorks charges probably about the same for a full-day shoot with MUA, hair-stylist, and wardrobe included and 30 retouched shots as you're planning on charging for 10 shots...but hey, an aspiring model won't know that, right?
Of course, the fact that most non-pro models don't have hundreds of dollars to throw around for anyone, good, bad, or boring, may have escaped you somewhat.
Also, if you're not planning on selling the calendar, what exposure?
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Stacy wrote:
So.. The sponser pays for the printing. And models pays for Mua, props and everything else. PLUS extra cash for your pocket so that they have the privalege of working with you? And the calendar? You're giving it to who? and for free? So... how does the model benefit? Is this something that will give the model lots of publicity? For a few hundred, I hope so.
maybe I'm just confused? lol I am confused myself
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
Stacy wrote:
maybe I'm just confused? Sounds more like HE is....
I SUPPOSE it could be good publicity for the models IF he's giving the calendars away to people who are actually likely to hire these models for paying assignments in future.... But he hasn't said that's the plan; he's not asking for money for the opportunity to be marketed -- he's asking for money for his photos and his MUA. (But not for printing -- he's got that covered....)
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Catriona wrote:
Well, of COURSE your target base is "aspiring models" - that seems to be the case for most mediocre photographers who are hoping to make cash off models, because they've figured out to at least some extent that a model with a little experience will realise that better work can be had elsewhere for free or a better price. Heck, EyeWorks charges probably about the same for a full-day shoot with MUA, hair-stylist, and wardrobe included and 30 retouched shots as you're planning on charging for 10 shots...but hey, an aspiring model won't know that, right?
Of course, the fact that most non-pro models don't have hundreds of dollars to throw around for anyone, good, bad, or boring, may have escaped you somewhat.
Also, if you're not planning on selling the calendar, what exposure? 30 retouched shots for $200, wardrobe, makeup, hairstylist included? wow, that's bargain deal Eyeworks is phenomenal
Photographer
STUDIOMONA PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 33697
Avon, Minnesota, US
Carole Hayes wrote:
I see the smiley face, so I'm not sure if you're joking or not: did you read his post? The only trade involved here is a couple of hundred bucks from the model, traded for the aforementioned cd's/prints/whatever and the privilege of being in the calendar.... i was confused..I thought he was producing the whole calendar for $200 ...
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
Catriona wrote:
Well, of COURSE your target base is "aspiring models" - that seems to be the case for most mediocre photographers who are hoping to make cash off models, because they've figured out to at least some extent that a model with a little experience will realise that better work can be had elsewhere for free or a better price. Heck, EyeWorks charges probably about the same for a full-day shoot with MUA, hair-stylist, and wardrobe included and 30 retouched shots as you're planning on charging for 10 shots...but hey, an aspiring model won't know that, right?
Of course, the fact that most non-pro models don't have hundreds of dollars to throw around for anyone, good, bad, or boring, may have escaped you somewhat.
Also, if you're not planning on selling the calendar, what exposure? Another photographer to add to the list....
Thanks for the tip! : )
Photographer
c_d_s
Posts: 7771
Lubbock, Texas, US
There's a post on here somewhere about shooting a calendar, finding a sponsor to pay for it, and sending the calendars to our troops in Iraq for free.
Now that would be something models might reasonably do for free, but I wouldn't expect them to pay for the privilege. I'd even shoot a month for free, who wouldn't?
Model
Carole Hayes
Posts: 876
Garland, Texas, US
StudioMona wrote:
i was confused..I thought he was producing the whole calendar for $200 ... Oh my gosh, no! Did you read it again?
He's charging the MODELS a couple of hundred bucks! For being in his calendar...! Unbelievable, huh?
Model
Catriona
Posts: 3674
Portland, Oregon, US
StudioMona wrote:
30 retouched shots for $200, wardrobe, makeup, hairstylist included? wow, that's bargain deal Eyeworks is phenomenal $250, but still - I'd be all over that if I weren't so broke-ass. Maybe someday...
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