Jack Blake wrote:
I've been laying low of the forums lately, just cuz I'm so busy.. But there's something that's bugging me.. thought I'd just spit it out for the heck of it.

I've been a pro-photog for about 25 yrs.. Now granted, I haven't been in this part of the industry for too very long (hence this post) so I'm not so familiar with how things are supposed to work..

Wanna say first: I understand a pro-model wanting to get paid for what they do, as that's the definition of "professional".. (right?) But..

I've NEVER experienced so many wanting my photography for free.. or not at all. I KNOW I'm not the best photographer in the world, nor even on this site.. But I also know that I'm pretty freakin' good at what I do..

I EXPECT to get paid for it unless the model brings something to my portfolio that ADDS to it.. Not just the stuff I've already done.

Why is it that even "aspiring" models don't feel they should pay? After sending me nice notes saying how much they "love my style and would love to work with me someday" (EVER so enthusiastically!!) they disapear once I bring up the fact that I DO THIS FOR A LIVING and want to get paid for it??

Is my photography that commonplace that they'd feel they shouldn't pay for it? (don't be afraid to say what you think, cuz I really don't base my opinion of my work on what others think of it)..

Or is it just that they want their cake and eat it too??

My mua and I have started taking "apps" for our pinup calendar.. and it's gonna freakin' rock.. But once I tell the models they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya.. poof, they're gone.

"I'd love to be involved cuz your work is awesome, but I'm sorry I want my portfolio built for free"..

I just don't get it.

k.. end of rant.

hope all had a good holiday season!!

JB: Eye2Eye )

ohhh bad idea to mix a calendar and your regular biz of photography togather.

Trying to make it sound more desireable to a model to make her want to shoot with you by telling her she may be in a calendar too is not a good idea unless you are paying her to be in it and not making her pay you to be in it.

Your rates are fine if they work for you and models pay them cool.

But telling models they have to pay to be on a calendar you will be making money off of!!! wow

I've officially heard it all tee hee....

and in one of your statements you said you would pay professional models to be on the calendar but not amatuers.......
if you approach an amatuer to be on your calendar because she has a look you want for it then YOU SHOULD pay her. Wether shes amatuer or not. You want her on it,
Professional models started out as amatuers as well. REMEMBER THAT

Standard Pay usually for calendars seems to be within $200-$500.
If its a big calendar some pay the models even more. Wether she's pro or not.

shantha wrote:
isn't mm supposed to be a site for models and photographers to network. its not a site to get paying gigs off thats what agencies and clients are for. i thought mm was a site that brought toghether the modeling community.

My opinion was that it was for both. In the end it's about the money.

YES I love creating art just for the sake of it. YES I REALLY do, otherwise I wouldn't be in the industry. I have a REAL passion for it. AND I've always loved doing childrens photography, because I love the idea of capturing priceless moments of time and personality.

But I'm also a professional and want to get paid. The question on this thread is, who pays whom? lol!

gotta love it.

________________________


Actually, that was the entire reason I'd posted in the beginning.. Like I said, I was going about it the wrong way..

But.. I've not approached ANY models. I'm getting 2-3 notes a week from beginners that want me to photograph them.. and a few that want to be involved in the that calendar. Yet, when I've offered my services as a professional, and expect them to actually pay for them, it's no-go.

It's THIS mentality that I'm coming across..


Rachel Beth wrote:
A model can build a port just as quickly with out a photographer. Just a thought.


Jack wrote:

Rachel.. please don't think I'm picking on you, because I'm NOT.. and I do wish you the best of luck!!!

But I'm going to use this as an example of what I'm talking about..

You said you can build a port without a photog. Ok..

This is one of your pics of you laying on a couch.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=1814845

This is a professionally taken photograph from my portfolio.

https://www.modelmayhem.com/pic.php?pid=1669566

there's a difference.

_____________________________________

shrug... Perhaps she doesn't see the difference, and doesn't see the value in yrs of experience, money invested in equip, time spent by myself AFTER the shoot, on and on. I'm glad I do...

I'm now rethinking the reason for the exsistance of this site. Which is a good thing. Someone said I'd just stepped out of my safe little world. I guess that's true.

Jack Blake wrote:

Ah.. well this is the gist then..

A true pro photographer is not needed, as there are many men that get a camera in their hands, CALL themselves pros just so's to take pics of perty, half naked women, and hope they'll take off the other half. Or, all the model has to do is look pretty.. and use their camera phones.

I've been a photographer for 25 yrs, worked in graphics/darkrooms before computers were on desks, and before most of these models were twinkles in the eyes of their parents. I was doing in a darkroom what I now do on ps.

I say time and experience counts (literally.. as in $$), while you're saying it doesn't. Ok.

I agree that a pro model would want to be compensated. I'd said that in my opening post. I'd also said I was hoping to build a calendar, while making a few bucks.. (nothin' wrong with that)

MY point was NOT that I was expecting PROFESSIONAL MODELS to pay for the "honor" of being a part of the project. MY point was that their are MANY ladies on here that need professional work, and I was trying to offer it at a reasonable cost. While making a few bux.. and trying to pay my mu a touch so she's not emptying her mu bag all the time.

I'd admitted that perhaps I was just going about it the wrong way. I'm a professional and unafraid to admit to some ignorance.

I also admitted that I was rethinking my biz on this and that I'd make my profits from the sponsors rather than the models. Been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. NO big deal.

But what you're saying is that my years of experience mean nothing.. And that they can call mr trailor-park to do some pics for them. Who needs real photographers to build a good portfolio? hmmm..

Fine and well.. good luck on that one. Not sure if I understand why the models would have value while the photogs have none. But ok.

I never said your experience means nothing or that you have no value and honestly I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. All I'm saying is just because you have you have a lot of experience doesn't mean all models are going to be willing to pay you to shoot with them when they could just as easiley go to someone else who will do it for free

Rachel Beth wrote:

I never said your experience means nothing or that you have no value and honestly I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. All I'm saying is just because you have you have a lot of experience doesn't mean all models are going to be willing to pay you to shoot with them when they could just as easiley go to someone else who will do it for free

I apologize for the misunderstanding then.. but what you said was that a model can build a port just as quickly without a photographer. I was offended by that statement.

I shouldn't have taken it personally. and again, I apologize. But those were your words, and I didn't put them there.

Jack Blake wrote:

I apologize for the misunderstanding then.. but what you said was that a model can build a port just as quickly without a photographer. I was offended by that statement.

I shouldn't have taken it personally. and again, I apologize. But those were your words, and I didn't put them there.

Its no problem but what I said was a model can build a port as quickly not as well perhaps I should have added that

_Alexandra wrote:
There are so many threads complaining about photographers and models who want to be paid.  Let's start making more threads about people using the term "professional" so loosely.

lol!! go ahead and start the thread.

Rachel Beth wrote:
btw I did pay for my photos

You paid for the work that is already in your portfolio?

Wow I need to raise my prices..

Rachel Beth wrote:
btw I did pay for my photos

You paid for the pics in your port??
if your not talking about those, discard what I'm about to say

hmmmm forgive me if I accidently diss the photographer(i really dont mean to)
but you could have gotten a $15 kodak film/digital camera and had a friend do those type of images for you.

Rachel Beth wrote:
btw I did pay for my photos

Oh dear...really? I've done shoots like the ones in your portfolio, too, but those are the ones I charge for.

I guess that means there is hope for mediocre-to-crappy photographers looking to make money off "aspiring" models after all, though!

Jack Blake wrote:
I've been laying low of the forums lately, just cuz I'm so busy.. But there's something that's bugging me.. thought I'd just spit it out for the heck of it.

I've been a pro-photog for about 25 yrs.. Now granted, I haven't been in this part of the industry for too very long (hence this post) so I'm not so familiar with how things are supposed to work..

Wanna say first: I understand a pro-model wanting to get paid for what they do, as that's the definition of "professional".. (right?) But..

I've NEVER experienced so many wanting my photography for free.. or not at all. I KNOW I'm not the best photographer in the world, nor even on this site.. But I also know that I'm pretty freakin' good at what I do..

I EXPECT to get paid for it unless the model brings something to my portfolio that ADDS to it.. Not just the stuff I've already done.

Why is it that even "aspiring" models don't feel they should pay? After sending me nice notes saying how much they "love my style and would love to work with me someday" (EVER so enthusiastically!!) they disapear once I bring up the fact that I DO THIS FOR A LIVING and want to get paid for it??

Is my photography that commonplace that they'd feel they shouldn't pay for it? (don't be afraid to say what you think, cuz I really don't base my opinion of my work on what others think of it)..

Or is it just that they want their cake and eat it too??

My mua and I have started taking "apps" for our pinup calendar.. and it's gonna freakin' rock.. But once I tell the models they might have to kick down a little to help with props, mu costs, whathaveya.. poof, they're gone.

"I'd love to be involved cuz your work is awesome, but I'm sorry I want my portfolio built for free"..

I just don't get it.

k.. end of rant.

hope all had a good holiday season!!

JB: Eye2Eye )

I must say im new to this modeling bussiness. And although right now im looking to do some TFP/CD it doesnt mean that i want my whole port built solely on that. My reason for this is because im starting out and i want to save up some money so i can pay a photog to take my pics. WHile i do enjoy some of the TFP/CD work ive done i know/believe that if i want to get a good variety of pics for my port and real neat looking/creative ones im going to also be willing to pay for my pics. & im totally fine with that. But at the moment i cant afford it, but its something im working towards. I want to be able to work w a team. And the photogs that have a team from what i've seen are those who obviously should/want to get paid for their work. If there are photogs out there who dont mind doing a few tfp/cd shots to help a model out i truly appreciate that and im very grateful but at the same time sometimes some things gotta give and i do understand everyone's trying to make a living. As long as the work its legite and its worth it, i dont mind paying for shots. All when i can afford it.