Madcitychel wrote:
We all know that a lot of times when a woman sais "no" that really means "maybe".

I find the same thing with photographers here.  No TFP - that means "maybe if you are hot".

Thought there are a few photographers, who say Absolutely no TFP, no exceptions.  So that is a most likely a "no".

Isn't this the case with just about everything?

00siris wrote:
Isn't this the case with just about everything?

It could be the case with everything, but not with everybody.

Some people really mean what they say (SURPRISE!!).

UnoMundo Photography wrote:
vozmozhno

Christopher Ambler wrote:
To hell with beating around the bush.

I'll do trade if you're hot, and I'm not afraid to say so.

But that's me.

So here is getting to the bottom of my question: you are not afraid to say so... hence, you think some photographers just afraid to hurt refused model's feelings, or trying to make themselves look important and "get the price higher"?!

SLE Photography wrote:
Hey, if a woman whips out a set of these

you can believe I'm taking "no" for an answer!

Is that right?

Madcitychel wrote:
So here is getting to the bottom of my question: you are not afraid to say so... hence, you think some photographers just afraid to hurt refused model's feelings, or trying to make themselves look important and "get the price higher"?!

Maybe both. Likely neither.

It's the same as a model who says she won't shoot trade ("paid work only") but when a "name" comes along, she's all-of-a-sudden interested in a trade shoot.

Is it dishonest? Maybe, but not critically-so. It happens.

Ransom J wrote:
Yeah that's pretty much how it works.  but whether or not a girl is hot enough is up to MY discretion.  hence why I state that I don't do TFP unless I hit YOU up for it.  That way i don't have to hurt anybody's feelings.

Thats how I am too.  But what if there was a model who you would like to work with and she was looking at your profile, but didn't contact you because you say: no TFP.   Then you are missing out on the opportunity...

Joeseph Curewitz wrote:
so.........if your looking for a TFP........I'll say yes.......

Christopher Ambler wrote:

Maybe both. Likely neither.

It's the same as a model who says she won't shoot trade ("paid work only") but when a "name" comes along, she's all-of-a-sudden interested in a trade shoot.

Is it dishonest? Maybe, but not critically-so. It happens.

Ok, so how one decides if they are good enought to contact a "No tfp-er" ?

Madcitychel wrote:
Ok, so how one decides if they are good enought to contact a "No tfp-er" ?

That's a personal decision, no?

Actually, I'd say that has more to do with confidence than ability, sometimes (though ability might come in to play in the response one will get).

I'll propose a trade shoot to a model irrespective of her "paid work only" status if I feel that my idea would interest her, and I'll always be clear, "I see you say paid work only, but I would feel bad if this interested you and I didn't ask."

Sometimes I get no response, or rude responses, but that's part of the risk one takes in almost all aspects of life.

More often than not, however, I get a "yes" when I ask. Is it because I'm good enough? Probably not - I'm just a hack - but I do try to offer ideas that have value.

Madcitychel wrote:

It could be the case with everything, but not with everybody.

Some people really mean what they say (SURPRISE!!).

hahhahahah!

i agree.

Madcitychel wrote:

Thats how I am too.  But what if there was a model who you would like to work with and she was looking at your profile, but didn't contact you because you say: no TFP.   Then you are missing out on the opportunity...

meh!  if it happens it happens.  no biggie.  more often  than not i'll get a friend request from those interested in working with me and that in and of itself brings their presence to my attention.  then If I find them "hot" enough to raise the tfp flag then so be it.  hopefully they accept after that.

Christopher Ambler wrote:

That's a personal decision, no?

Actually, I'd say that has more to do with confidence than ability, sometimes (though ability might come in to play in the response one will get).

I'll propose a trade shoot to a model irrespective of her "paid work only" status if I feel that my idea would interest her, and I'll always be clear, "I see you say paid work only, but I would feel bad if this interested you and I didn't ask."

Sometimes I get no response, or rude responses, but that's part of the risk one takes in almost all aspects of life.

More often than not, however, I get a "yes" when I ask. Is it because I'm good enough? Probably not - I'm just a hack - but I do try to offer ideas that have value.

You are right - I just am more concerned about the other party. I can care less about the rude response.  I just feel like in a conversation:

-Do you want an orange?
-No, thanks, I am allergic to citrus!
-Ok, then do you want a lemon?

But I guess never hurts (at least myself) to ask.  I'll just be more selfish.

Avicdar wrote:
Everyone does TFP. Period.

I didn't think so, but you might be right.

Madcitychel wrote:
But I guess never hurts (at least myself) to ask.  I'll just be more selfish.

It never hurts as long as you're polite and reasonable. Or, more accurately, anyone who would be offended to the point of being hurt, you likely don't want to work with anyway.

And, as I said, I find that being polite and trying to bring good ideas and value to the table means that I get the trade shoots I ask for at least 7 times out of 10.

And I try to return the favor and accept requests for trade whenever possible.

Madcitychel wrote:
Thought there are a few photographers, who say Absolutely no TFP, no exceptions.  So that is a most likely a "no".

My bio says no sex for pics, no exceptions.  No means no.

lightsandshadow wrote:
Everything is up for negotiation.

I do TFP.  Especially if YOU (Madcitychel) asked me to!

Thank you - I can write you if I'll be in CA

markcomp wrote:

My bio says no sex for pics, no exceptions.  No means no.

Well - here you just ruined all my hopes... damn it...

Christopher Ambler wrote:

It never hurts as long as you're polite and reasonable. Or, more accurately, anyone who would be offended to the point of being hurt, you likely don't want to work with anyway.

And, as I said, I find that being polite and trying to bring good ideas and value to the table means that I get the trade shoots I ask for at least 7 times out of 10.

And I try to return the favor and accept requests for trade whenever possible.

I try to be polite to people too especially when you see that it is not a 'generic" offer.  You know - one letter for everyone...

Image K wrote:
There are exceptions to every rule.

Yeah? What about conservation of energy? :-)

Christopher Ambler wrote:

Yeah? What about conservation of energy? :-)

Yeah...I know.

I really wasn't talking about scientific rules.

Image K wrote:
Another reason why photographers will continue to ask? Because there are plenty of models that will eventually cave to the pressure.

If models stop giving in, photographers would have no choice but to stop asking.

What pressure? You ask, get a response, and move on.

Models ask me for trade shoots all the time. I don't feel pressured at all.

Mikel Featherston wrote:
The title of this thread reminded me of this short film.

http://media.putfile.com/ahlamour

I loved that - thanks for sharing!

James Graham wrote:
Do you mean "says" ???

Cause I'm really confused...

i think that's what he meant.  as in, "when a woman says no, stock up on lunchmeat"

Christopher Ambler wrote:

What pressure? You ask, get a response, and move on.

Models ask me for trade shoots all the time. I don't feel pressured at all.

You must be the exception to the rule, then.

Models complain constantly that they are pressured to do nudes.