Nat the droid wrote:
I'm still recovering from back to back steroids ...

So 'roid Nat the droid?

AgX wrote:

So 'roid Nat the droid?

!!!!!!

Ok, that was good 😆

Ey ey, next time I see you, don't expect a skinny bald model okay 😉

Nat the droid wrote:
Ey ey, next time I see you, don't expect a skinny bald model okay 😉

Eh, I've already photographed that model! I've got new and improved plans for all the tresses...

Dea and the Beast wrote:
That's really up to you to check and ask for a recent cell selfie.  It's not that difficult.

Also not like any halfway serious model doesn't also run 5 social accounts simultaneously one could visit.

The most recent overweight model has 2 instagram accounts with recent postings that were obviously not recently taken.  I do look at the dates the MM profile pics were posted to make sure they're recent, but apparently that's not enough

So I guess you're saying it wouldn't be insulting if I were to ask each model I'm considering to send a recent bikini pic?

Shouldn't the model be forthcoming?  Is it on the photographer to investigate?

And after the investigation, if I end up with a model misrepresenting herself, at that point what do I do?  Do I body shame her by either calling off the shoot or asking for a discount?  What would you do in my position?

thanks for the input

Phil F wrote:
Is there an appropriate reply when a model shows up for a shoot and is 20-30 pounds heavier than any of her photos?

The appropriate reply depends on how you feel. If you don't care, move forward. If you care, but not enough to cancel, move forward. If you're not willing to photograph the person standing in front of you, stick to the facts and cancel (and be prepared to suffer whatever wrath results from that, deserved or not).

And then learn a lesson. If current appearance is important to you, procure said current appearance before agreeing to a booking.

Phil F wrote:

The most recent overweight model has 2 instagram accounts with recent postings that were obviously not recently taken.  I do look at the dates the MM profile pics were posted to make sure they're recent, but apparently that's not enough

So I guess you're saying it wouldn't be insulting if I were to ask each model I'm considering to send a recent bikini pic?

Shouldn't the model be forthcoming?  Is it on the photographer to investigate?

And after the investigation, if I end up with a model misrepresenting herself, at that point what do I do?  Do I body shame her by either calling off the shoot or asking for a discount?  What would you do in my position?

thanks for the input

Since you have literally 6 posts here's a serious answer.

Just because someone has an account on here or an Instagram account doesn't mean they're a professional model and doesn't mean they have the same standards/expectations as you.

When I was shooting models/actors it was mostly portraits and I didn't have a specific look/weight I needed.

If you have a specific look/weight/height you need, schedule a low stakes test shoot. Even back when I was 33-26-36 I didn't fit sample sizes correctly because of my body composition/shape (long torso, wider shoulders, wider hips, dancer thighs, etc)

Even when I was with a fit modeling agency I was expected to maintain my exact measurements and was a perfect size 8 except my boobs were 0.5 inches too big and I was told I needed to wear a compression bra,and also fudged down my height.

Then I was focused on other things during COVID (working in healthcare and service industry), gained weight FINALLY that I needed, then my health fell apart and I am glad to be alive. I'm happy to stay in the 165-175 while I'm here, but I'm already dropping weight since it's mostly that fluid retention steroids give you lol I'll probably end up being in the 150's at the end of all this, but again, not really attached to each phase my body goes through

Bodies change depending on time of the day and time of the month

Yes, if it is that important, insist on snapshots from the model, any working model should be accustomed to taking self shots every few weeks to send to potential clients

Phil F wrote:
The most recent overweight model has 2 instagram accounts with recent postings that were obviously not recently taken.  I do look at the dates the MM profile pics were posted to make sure they're recent, but apparently that's not enough

So I guess you're saying it wouldn't be insulting if I were to ask each model I'm considering to send a recent bikini pic?

Shouldn't the model be forthcoming?  Is it on the photographer to investigate?

And after the investigation, if I end up with a model misrepresenting herself, at that point what do I do?  Do I body shame her by either calling off the shoot or asking for a discount?  What would you do in my position?

thanks for the input

Did you book her (Them) for a particular look, where stats mattered?

Bc as an art model I show up to an art nude job with a fluctuation of 10 lbs, depending on time of year and time o' da month.
As a fashion/runway/fitness model I *have to* show up with correct stats, or there is no job....

So in short, yes, it IS and remains up to you to check, since you're on a site for hobbyists and ''professionals" alike, it is foolish of you to assume everyone here is a pro and acts accordingly.

You can always hire a pro from an agency, which will have you sign many forms and pay pro /agency prices.
Then you can cry 'breach of contract' and don't need to 'body shame' (lmfaoooooo- a model by definition is the corp needed to fill the space you seek to express, no matter what shape it takes on, really) anyone.

You expect some kid in their early 20s to have their shit together too..   Why? 

Ask for a bikini selfie, nothing wrong with that. Jesus.
If you think that is werid, you may want to rethink working with 'models' altogether.


( I am still laughing.. imagine 'oh hey, I know you booked me for that shoot, but I forgot to tell you that I am still so fucking bloated from that Disney trip last week, I kinda look 20 lbs heavier than the best image in my portfolio that you use as standard, that was shot under best circumstances by a team of pros' )

B-F-G wrote:
It honestly seems a bit unprofessional to me to not have a portfolio that reflects your current looks and build.  It's not that hard to keep up to date unless someone has been unable to get gigs recently (and then, a statement reflecting that and the build change is warranted.)

Photographers have a right to reasonable expectations.  Of course, I'm relatively inexperienced, and my portfolio leaves nothing to the imagination nor hides the fact that I'm overweight, so I may not have any room to talk here.

No.

I frequently shoot. For money. That means I don't get pics, nor would they contribute in any manner to my otherwise perfect portfolio.

So no, not unprofessional.

And while everyone has a right to expectations, nobody has any duty to fulfil said expectations, unless a contract is signed.
Not likely scenario here.

You're welcome.

B-F-G wrote:
Yeah, we're not going to agree on that.  As I said, if someone doesn't have recent portfolio shots, such that their portfolio does not reflect a substantial build change, simply stating they've gone through one is both sufficient and warranted.  Otherwise it's a form of false advertising.  Photographers and models alike have a right to reasonable expectations before getting started, especially when money's involved.

We don't need to.

I'm a working model.  You are..

Phil F wrote:
if I end up with a model misrepresenting herself, at that point what do I do?  Do I body shame her by either calling off the shoot or asking for a discount?

I think that you should pay a bit extra.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
I frequently shoot. For money. That means I don't get pics, nor would they contribute in any manner to my otherwise perfect portfolio.

Perhaps in your case you'd save a lot of time updating your portfolio (last 2013?) and approving credited photos?

Maybe more work as well.

Magic in Light wrote:

Perhaps in your case you'd save a lot of time updating your portfolio (last 2013?) and approving credited photos?

Maybe more work as well.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I think all professional models should have current photos that represent their current look.  If at all possible if her images are more than a year old ask to meet in person first or for current selfies.  Nothing wrong with showing older images (I do) but if you are expecting to be paid and we are your clients and your look has changed (e.g.) weight change or other, clients should know.  Can you imagine an actor using headshots years or decades old to audition for a job when they look very different.

Personally if a model expecting to be paid arrived to work with me and was much heavier or older looking than her most current photos.  I'd show her the door.

Then take a screen shot of the stats and build it into the contract..

Oh wait, nobody has one..  smh

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I know PLENTY of models who shoot for $$$ who also have current photos.  If you are a model who expects to be paid then it's critical to have updated photos that show your current look.  While MM isn't an agency.  Agency models who are being paid do unpaid editorial tests all the time.  There simply are NO excuses not to have photos that showcase how you look now.  It may save you as a model the embarrassment of being turned away from a session or disappointing a photographer. This isn't rocket science. Having a portfolio full of images as a model that are decades old suggests you aren't modeling much or you are not getting good images. 

I would never pay a model who didn't have new images I could see.  Not when she's asking for $$$ nor would I ask her to send me any.  Models reading this thread.  Keep your portfolio current.  That includes head shots.

I have perfectly up to date photos, no need to blow a gasket, dear..

They are just not on this platform, since there are no professionals to be found.  Therefore it makes little sense to pay for a VIP membership here so I can keep five disgruntled old men and their antiquated antics happy.

Zero need.

Dea and the Beast wrote:

I have perfectly up to date photos, no need to blow a gasket, dear..

They are just not on this platform, since there are no professionals to be found.  Therefore it makes little sense to pay for a VIP membership here so I can keep five disgruntled old men and their antiquated antics happy.

Zero need.

My advice was general but since you quoted me directly I will opine.  Models who charge have no excuses for NOT having some up to to date photos no matter where they have their images posted.   You have well over a hundred here.   Most of the social network sites don't allow nudes.  I harken back to what you originally said. "I frequently shoot. For money. That means I don't get pics, nor would they contribute in any manner to my otherwise perfect portfolio."
Who cares if their perfect just current as in the last decade.  Nice you of you to throw in that dig about photographers here not being professional and I think there are a lot more then five pro photographers here.  However since you took the time to respond to us old farts one would think you could use some of your valuable time to have current photos.  Not for me as I have ZERO desire to shoot you.


Again if you are a paid model seeking paid work have up to date photos of your current look.  Their are no reasons not too and that includes every site you post on.  Now, I'm sure you have a pithy comeback.  Something funny or ironic.  I'm done though.

Nat the droid wrote:
You know it's so *chef's kiss* to wade into the shallow end of the forums and see models being compared to rusted out cars

I hope Elon Musk buys this site

Rust Never Sleeps--great album. He didn't really didn't mean to compare you to a rusted out car. He was just going for the used car saleswoman angle. Sell, Sell, until you drop. Hope you're feeling better. Sad to read of your health at such a young age.

LA StarShooter wrote:

Rust Never Sleeps--great album. He didn't really didn't mean to compare you to a rusted out car. He was just going for the used car saleswoman angle. Sell, Sell, until you drop. Hope you're feeling better. Sad to read of your health at such a young age.

I know it wasn't aimed at me personally.

Don't worry, I'm going to have work forever in the fine art world where people are excited when a model just fucking shows up lol

The attitude that models who pose for photographers need to maintain impossible standards or else they're "scamming"

Many moons ago when I was doing more editorial work, I was told I could stand to lose 10 lbs and was a bit short. A former fit agency said I was a perfect size 8 except for my chest being 0.5 inches too big, and I was a bit on the tall side.

I am quite literally a genetic freak of nature and I'm glad two rounds of steroids that saved my life last year also made me gain 50 lbs. I never needed to lose weight, but when you're told from a young age that your body is wrong, you don't question it.

I'm going to just rotate around the many markets i used to work in for painting/sculpture/etc workshops and classes. I'm already booked through October so I don't take this site or its contents too seriously.

I'll disappear from the internet again when I feel like it. Lol

Nat the droid wrote:
I'm going to just rotate around the many markets i used to work in for painting/sculpture/etc workshops and classes. I'm already booked through October so I don't take this site or its contents too seriously.

I'll disappear from the internet again when I feel like it. Lol

Hey! No disappearance allowed until you rotate back through Central New York a couple more times! It took me damn near 10 years to get you here and you were amazing last month!

JQuest wrote:

Hey! No disappearance allowed until you rotate back through Central New York a couple more times! It took me damn near 10 years to get you here and you were amazing last month!

You're on the short list of people I'll randomly email don't worry 😂😂

Phil F wrote:
Is there an appropriate reply when a model shows up for a shoot and is 20-30 pounds heavier than any of her photos?

Do photographers ask this question beforehand (e.g., do your photos represent how you look now)?  Plenty of models mention hair style/color changes, but for the third time, a model came in and I barely recognized her.

Would you not move forward with the shoot?  Ask for a discount? Not say anything and shoot?

You failed to communicate.  So don't say anything and just shoot.

Al_Vee Photography wrote:

MM has always been a hot bed of body shaming and fat phobic misogyny.

I first joined in 2007, built a life centered around art and travel. I met many beloved friends here over the years. On the rare occasion I  check back in on ye olde MM, I always note that society has moved forward but this website has not kept up

Let's not lose sight of the fact that in modeling, your appearance and modeling skill, IS the product / service that you are providing.  Whatever your current look is.

There are all sorts of models with all sorts of looks.

Please don't confuse that fact with the separate issue of a few models that do not accurately represent whatever their current look IS.  They're two entirely different matters.

LightDreams wrote:
Let's not lose sight of the fact that in modeling, your appearance and modeling skill, IS the product / service that you are providing.  Whatever your current look is.

There are all sorts of models with all sorts of looks.

Please don't confuse that fact with the separate issue of a few models that do not accurately represent whatever their current look IS.  They're two entirely different matters.

It sure helps when they have current images, however I like to meet in person in advance like I did back in the old days IF it is still at all possible.

AgX wrote:
The appropriate reply depends on how you feel. If you don't care, move forward. If you care, but not enough to cancel, move forward. If you're not willing to photograph the person standing in front of you, stick to the facts and cancel (and be prepared to suffer whatever wrath results from that, deserved or not).

This is the way assuming the Photographer is paying the model.

AgX wrote:
The appropriate reply depends on how you feel. If you don't care, move forward. If you care, but not enough to cancel, move forward. If you're not willing to photograph the person standing in front of you, stick to the facts and cancel (and be prepared to suffer whatever wrath results from that, deserved or not).

rGlenndonShoots wrote:
This is the way assuming the Photographer is paying the model.

I don’t agree that monetary concerns, in any direction, are very relevant to my earlier statement. People’s time is valuable. Effort is valuable. Experience and dedication are worth something. I don’t think who is paying whom in cash should be a determining factor.

AgX wrote:

I don’t agree that monetary concerns, in any direction, are very relevant to my earlier statement. People’s time is valuable. Effort is valuable. Experience and dedication are worth something. I don’t think who is paying whom in cash should be a determining factor.

That clarifies your opinion.
Time, experience, dedication, … money, all have value. To each of us. In different levels relative to individual circumstances and views. Suffice it to say that none of those values objectively trumps or trashes any other.

That in mind if a paying customer is sold on marketing visuals that highlight wagyu only to be delivered cuts of shank, the decision is theirs on whether to move forward, renegotiate, or cut the deal. That goes both ways. Can a photographer get sufficient diffusion through tissue? Maybe. But if marketing and pricing display and are based on Profoto, et. al. equipment, again, the payor decides the next move.

I approached the question from the perspective of marketed representation v delivered presentation and their relative perceived values.

Tl;dr: whatever the cost- time, money, yadda yadda, how much of it to spend may have been adjusted for the actual delivered product.

rGlenndonShoots wrote:
That clarifies your opinion.
Time, experience, dedication, … money, all have value. To each of us. In different levels relative to individual circumstances and views. Suffice it to say that none of those values objectively trumps or trashes any other.

That in mind if a paying customer is sold on marketing visuals that highlight wagyu only to be delivered cuts of shank, the decision is theirs on whether to move forward, renegotiate, or cut the deal. That goes both ways. Can a photographer get sufficient diffusion through tissue? Maybe. But if marketing and pricing display and are based on Profoto, et. al. equipment, again, the payor decides the next move.

I approached the question from the perspective of marketed representation v delivered presentation and their relative perceived values.

Tl;dr: whatever the cost- time, money, yadda yadda, how much of it to spend may have been adjusted for the actual delivered product.

Digital tools save us time when it comes to vetting, and also in creating.  However the old fashion way of vetting in person is still the best way to be sure when it comes to people you are planning to work with..  It's a matter of reality verses illusion and what you can do with it.  AI is going to further stir the pot!

Patrick Walberg wrote:
Digital tools save us time when it comes to vetting, and also in creating.  However the old fashion way of vetting in person is still the best way to be sure when it comes to people you are planning to work with..  It's a matter of reality verses illusion and what you can do with it.  AI is going to further stir the pot!

100% agreed on the opportunities to vet. Just today variation in hair length and style found me asking the very legitimate question 'how are you styling it these days'. The q and the a came and went, no harm, no foul. Conversation beforehand not only avoids issues but actually make for a smoother all around transaction. But maybe I've just been lucky. Idk.