TDSImages wrote:
[...]All I care about is that he can fix my car at a fair price.

And  steals the parts from someone else's car so they cost you less, cheats for you on the smog tests, rips off his employees--- but gives you a good price...
Yeah, a Trump supporter for sure. Fuck democracy, fuck fair play for all citizens, but get yours....

rfordphotos wrote:
And  steals the parts from someone else's car so they cost you less, cheats for you on the smog tests, rips off his employees--- but gives you a good price...
Yeah, a Trump supporter for sure. Fuck democracy, fuck fair play for all citizens, but get yours....

Ok, let me restate my point as you have totally twisted my point to fit your view.  I don't care if my auto mechanic cusses like a sailor, is an avowed communist/socialist or cheers for a sports team that I can't stand.  There, do you get my drift?  And how the hell do you know me to call me a Trump supporter??  You know jack crap about me so don't go throwing stuff out there that you have no idea of what you're talking about.  I'm an America first supporter and whether it is Trump, DeSantis or anybody else, if that's what they stand for, I'll get behind them.

TDSImages wrote:

Ok, let me restate my point as you have totally twisted my point to fit your view.  I don't care if my auto mechanic cusses like a sailor, is an avowed communist/socialist or cheers for a sports team that I can't stand.  There, do you get my drift?  And how the hell do you know me to call me a Trump supporter??  You know jack crap about me so don't go throwing stuff out there that you have no idea of what you're talking about.  I'm an America first supporter and whether it is Trump, DeSantis or anybody else, if that's what they stand for, I'll get behind them.

You're right, I dont know you.

But I know I have a COMPLETELY different idea about what America is, what it can be and what it should be. I know the America ___I___ believe in takes care of the downtrodden, looks out for those who are unable to look out for themselves, The America I believe in should be working to extend equal opportunity to ALL its citizens, not just a chosen few.

The America I believe in wouldnt dream of having a con man like Trump- TWICE impeached for his obvious disdain for the law and the Constitution- A criminal shown to have actively conspired to overthrow a free and fair election that removed him from office.

When I was a young man I took an oath to defend the Constitution because I believed in the things it stood for and I will stand by that oath till I die. Trump has no right to be in office, he should be in jail.

Here is another example of "Trumpism"----
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


GOP Rep. Boebert: ‘I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk’

By Adela Suliman
June 28, 2022 at 10:11 a.m. EDT
====  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … -colorado/


Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), who faces a primary election Tuesday, says she is “tired” of the U.S. separation of church and state, a long-standing concept stemming only from a “stinking letter” penned by one of the Founding Fathers.

Speaking at a religious service Sunday in Colorado, she told worshipers: “The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our Founding Fathers intended it.”

She added: “I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk that’s not in the Constitution. It was in a stinking letter, and it means nothing like what they say it does.” Her comments were first reported by the Denver Post.

The Constitution’s First Amendment, which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” has been widely interpreted to mean the separation of church and state —

[...]

rfordphotos wrote:

You're right, I dont know you.

But I know I have a COMPLETELY different idea about what America is, what it can be and what it should be. I know the America ___I___ believe in takes care of the downtrodden, looks out for those who are unable to look out for themselves, The America I believe in should be working to extend equal opportunity to ALL its citizens, not just a chosen few.

The America I believe in wouldnt dream of having a con man like Trump- TWICE impeached for his obvious disdain for the law and the Constitution- A criminal shown to have actively conspired to overthrow a free and fair election that removed him from office.

When I was a young man I took an oath to defend the Constitution because I believed in the things it stood for and I will stand by that oath till I die. Trump has no right to be in office, he should be in jail.

Here is another example of "Trumpism"----
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


GOP Rep. Boebert: ‘I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk’

By Adela Suliman
June 28, 2022 at 10:11 a.m. EDT
====  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … -colorado/


Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), who faces a primary election Tuesday, says she is “tired” of the U.S. separation of church and state, a long-standing concept stemming only from a “stinking letter” penned by one of the Founding Fathers.

Speaking at a religious service Sunday in Colorado, she told worshipers: “The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church. That is not how our Founding Fathers intended it.”

She added: “I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk that’s not in the Constitution. It was in a stinking letter, and it means nothing like what they say it does.” Her comments were first reported by the Denver Post.

The Constitution’s First Amendment, which states that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” has been widely interpreted to mean the separation of church and state —

[...]

I respect your right to have your own views as to what is right and wrong with this country and it's political leadership past or present.  I get that you have very negative views towards Trump as I do Biden.  I just hope that you can respect opposing viewpoints such as mine with the same respect and courtesy that was afforded you.  This country would be in such a better place if we could all do this.  Then we might be able to sit down together to solve the problems that BOTH sides have created instead of devolving into emotionally based tribalism that is tearing our country apart today.

TDSImages wrote:
I respect your right to have your own views as to what is right and wrong with this country and it's political leadership past or present.  I get that you have very negative views towards Trump as I do Biden.  I just hope that you can respect opposing viewpoints such as mine with the same respect and courtesy that was afforded you.  This country would be in such a better place if we could all do this.  Then we might be able to sit down together to solve the problems that BOTH sides have created instead of devolving into emotionally based tribalism that is tearing our country apart today.

Tell you what--- Today's Jan 6th hearing is going to be aired in full on YouTube by PBS (and most the other media companies) starting at 1PM Eastern (10am Pacific) about 25 minutes from now--- ( https://youtu.be/bC3_VFFJlSY ) Watch the hearing. See what the committee offers a evidence, listen to the sworn witness---evidently today it will be Mark Meadow's aide, Cassidy Hutchinson a republican in trump's White House....

Listen to what they say with that open mind you are seeking from me- not labeling it "that Brandon clownshow" the knee jerk label from Fox etc etc....

rfordphotos wrote:

Tell you what--- Today's Jan 6th hearing is going to be aired in full on YouTube by PBS (and most the other media companies) starting at 1PM Eastern (10am Pacific) about 25 minutes from now--- ( https://youtu.be/bC3_VFFJlSY ) Watch the hearing. See what the committee offers a evidence, listen to the sworn witness---evidently today it will be Mark Meadow's aide, Cassidy Hutchinson a republican in trump's White House....

Listen to what they say with that open mind you are seeking from me- not labeling it "that Brandon clownshow" the knee jerk label from Fox etc etc....

Again, you either misread what I wrote or you are intentionally twisting my words.  I DID NOT ask that you have an open mind.  I simply stated that I respected your right to your views and asked that you do the same for me.  It's obvious you don't like Trump and it's obvious I don't like Biden.  So what?????  You think I'm going to convince you otherwise or you me?  Again, if people on polar opposite sides of the spectrum like you and me could put their biases to the side and respectfully work together on commonalities (in this case, our love for America), we would all be so much further ahead.

John Silva Photography wrote:
Will Trump Run For President Again, and Win???

With apologies to John Silva, I'm going to suggest a slightly different thread title:

Will Trump Run For President Again, and CLAIM to Have Won???

TDSImages wrote:
After this Brandon clownshow...I sure hope Trump comes back. Don't care for the guy personally but his America First agenda and what he did sure helped the little guy like me.  Like I tell people, I don't have to like my auto mechanic or care if he's a complete sleazeball.  All I care about is that he can fix my car at a fair price.

rfordphotos wrote:
I will be 100% honest- as long as you "sure hope Trump comes back. " we are not likely to find any common ground. I know it will probably surprise you, but I dont support Biden either- until Trump came along, I had been a Republican party member since the early '70s.

But Trump represents the end of a democracy I believe in, and support for him in any form feels to me like an attack on American values-

It is your right to believe as you choose, I dont have to like it, but I can choose to actively oppose it.

Yes you can.  And I will support Trump, DeSantis or any other politician, right or left, that puts America first and proves it with their actions. 

Been a great conversation, but I'm out.  Have to get back to work so I can somewhat afford to fill my truck up at the gas station today.  Adios.

TDSImages wrote:
I just hope that you can respect opposing viewpoints such as mine with the same respect and courtesy that was afforded you.  This country would be in such a better place if we could all do this.  Then we might be able to sit down together to solve the problems that BOTH sides have created instead of devolving into emotionally based tribalism that is tearing our country apart today.

What utter phony sanctimony.

You admit dealing with "complete sleazeballs" as long as it benefits you financially. Does that include assaulters of women? Where does someone like you draw the line? Kiddie porn? ANYWHERE?

You demand respect for cold blooded amorality? Sorry, pal.

You have the GALL to call yourself an America Firster when you want Putin's useful idiot back in the Oval Office.

You demand respect for supporting the first President to actively attempt to overthrow a legitimate election and cling to power. Sooo patriotic. You deserve the respect accorded Flat Earthers or Jews For Jesus.

"After this Brandon clownshow..."

You have the COLOSSAL nerve to talk about a CLOWNSHOW? After FOUR YEARS of the ignorant buffoon's antics you cannot be serious. And you call for RESPECT? Cry me a river.

"...sure hope Trump comes back.."

"Brandon"

And you take exception to being called a "trump supporter?' Hilarious.

rfordphotos wrote:

And  steals the parts from someone else's car so they cost you less, cheats for you on the smog tests, rips off his employees--- but gives you a good price...
Yeah, a Trump supporter for sure. Fuck democracy, fuck fair play for all citizens, but get yours....

...And after driving away you find the car is still broken  and the mechanic has gone bankrupt and will not honor his warranty.

TDSImages wrote:
After this Brandon clownshow...I sure hope Trump comes back.  Don't care for the guy personally but his America First agenda and what he did sure helped the little guy like me.  Like I tell people, I don't have to like my auto mechanic or care if he's a complete sleazeball.  All I care about is that he can fix my car at a fair price.

I spent much of my youth in Cicero, IL and most of my adult life in Las Vegas, NV.
Both locations were run by the mob.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "this town was much better when it was run by the mob".

The benefits were only seen on the surface.  Most people only want to see what they want to see.

They choose to ignore the mob 'skimming', aka offering 'protection' for a fee from hard working business people.
They ignore the theft and pirating of merchandise and vehicles to haul them, and then sold to the highest bidder.
They ignore that opponents and sometimes their family members were usually killed.
They ignore that even their own loyal members were often exterminated if they didn't do exactly what the boss wanted.
All because they got a free cans of soup (Cicero) or cheap buffets and shows (Las Vegas).

It sounds like the Trump organization.
Trump 'skimming' from hard working people (or didn't you hear about the fake charities that he set up to steal donations?)
Trump removed National Parklands and sold 'em to big oil and other companies that were the highest bidder (and also removed the environmental protections so the companies can pollute without repercussion).
With Trumps blessing, his goons threatened opponents, and even threatened to exterminate his own loyal Vice President because he didn't do exactly what the boss wanted.

And you feel it's OK because 'a little guy' like you may have gotten a few bucks more.

Trump putting "America First"... my ass!

As far as having to pay more for filling up your truck...
... don't forget that EVERY REPUBLICAN voted against S.3920 - Gas Price Gouging Prevention Act.
(betcha Fox News didn't tell you that!)

TDSImages wrote:
I respect your right to have your own views as to what is right and wrong with this country and it's political leadership past or present.  I get that you have very negative views towards Trump as I do Biden.  I just hope that you can respect opposing viewpoints such as mine with the same respect and courtesy that was afforded you.  This country would be in such a better place if we could all do this.  Then we might be able to sit down together to solve the problems that BOTH sides have created instead of devolving into emotionally based tribalism that is tearing our country apart today.

I am curious when it was that I was afforded unearned respect and courtesy by the right?  Much less than the courtesy that was afforded to anyone further left than me?  Was it when the word liberal, a word used to describe a group of ideas and philosophies championed by Jesus Christ himself, became an expletive and a put down?   Was it when the term RINO was coined, or, more recently, a Romney Republican became the in style curse, in order to point out who's words, philosophies and positions don't matter and should be ignored?   

Recently I was buying gas and was checking out a nicely restored classic car on the other side of the pumps.  The guy driving it said to me, "Let's go Brandon."  I rolled my eyes and looked away.  I am curious, how was his comment civil?  Though I use the word from time to time now, I can remember a time when the f word would never cross my lips.  Now, the people you align with think that it is socially correct to say, "Fuck Joe Biden" on camera and to anyone they happen to see out in public?  You can say "lets go Brandon," or some variation of it in your post and still plead civility when you know damn well what it means and so does everyone else?  That is not being courteous.  And you want to imply that it is other people with different political positions that are the ones that have to step back and listen to the ones that are trying to return us to segregation, and a science-less society, and where people who are born different must pretend otherwise and stay in the closest?

Why doesn't the right discuss ideas and offer countering legislation and compromise instead of running on the premise of  obstruction, winning at all costs and vilifying the likes of Hillary, Pelosi, AOC- funny how much the right vilifies women, not to mention people of color and non-christian religions. 

I am all for greater respect and courtesy, but the post you started with wasn't about that.  It was about the tribalism that the right uses to tear the country apart.

The problem with this current American First agenda is that is anything but America First.  It is about “portions of America” being first.  Not everyone that is an American is recognized as an American and no, not all Americans are invited along for the ride. 

You may feel trump’s policies benefited you, but trump's tariff's didn't benefit me.  Pulling out of trade agreements didn't benefit me.  Tearing apart the country and creating a situation that I have to watch out where I go when I am with a non-wasp friend doesn't benefit me.   The benefits I had economically during the trump years mostly came from the Obama administration and those policies succeeded despite the efforts of Republicans to hurt everyone in the country in an effort to make Obama a one term president.  Too bad trump can’t reach across party lines like a true leader as Obama did. I saw his ability to lead even though I voted for McCain, but not Romney.)

The trump policy that benefit me was his utter failure to take covid-19 seriously.  His failure in leadership when he personalized Covid-19 instead of treating it like nothing when it would kill over one million Americans and he expected a good result would be a quarter million American deaths.  I changed my answering machine message this past spring to tell people that I am not taking new work and please don't leave me a message.  I may have more work than I can handle, but my customers can't hire anyone to do what my peers and I do.  Or, they are paying much more and waiting a longer time.  So, are they really better off?  Am I?  I have never hated my profession before, but I do now- because of the ugly, demanding, privileged people that have trump stickers on their trucks and confederate flags in their home's windows! 

I can't rent a car to go on a trip because of trump.  I can't buy a new car because of trump.  I am paying way too much for gas because of trump- trump did this!  I have had to give my colleague a significant raise because of trump- which means I am making less and paying more payroll taxes, or, I have to join in the inflation economy and charge my clients more- something I would rather not do.

You say it would be a better country if we can all grant each other greater courtesies, but it is the trumponian American First people who are the ones that have always refused to grant me and my non-wasp friends those courtesies.   It would also be a more courteous country if the people on the right could get along well enough with people that they didn't have to carry their guns around to intimidate everyone else.   God, for 65 years I have never been mugged or robbed.  Why do a need to be armed now?  What with the general direction of crime going down over the years, despite the fear mongering on the right.

It use to be that I could engage in a conversation and the other person was informed.  Now, they believe Q.  They believe Fox.  They check nothing.  They create or repeat nonsense arguments.  And those are the better ones.  Some outright lie.  Twist, distort, fabricate.  What kind of person does that?  Certainly not one that wants to engage in courteous discourse.

They completely ignore the obvious transgressions of trump which righteously resulted in two impeachments, and should result in many criminal charges, but they are blind and willfully oblivious.

You may not be a trump supporter, but if you are supporting the smarter, but no less abhorrent DeSantis, Abbott, or the lying, two faced, self-serving, Cruz and ilk- the problem is really the same.  You support abhorrent ideas.  What difference does it make which abhorrent person is trying to make themselves rich and powerful based on those abhorrent ideas?

I use to dance a lot in New Jersey.  There once was a good country western place in South Jersey.  Great place to two step.  I would always buy gas while in Jersey because it is cheaper.  I still do, though they raised the taxes almost as high as Pennsylvania.  I pulled into this station one night.  In Jersey, they have to pump the gas for you.  There was a woman that was waiting to be served before I pulled in.  The attendant ignored her and went on to someone else.  She complained and the attendant berated and humiliated her.  He was loud, obnoxious and cruel.  She left without buying gas.  He gleefully approached me, celebrating his victory over HIS CUSTOMER, and slinging vile terms to describe her.  I had something to say in response to him and then he was screaming at me, but he was far too much of a coward to take a swing.  He was running down the road opposite my car when I left. The next morning, I was at my desk, bright and early, on the phone with a vice president of the corporation that owned the gas station brand and I told him the story.  His first response was that he was surprised that he was hearing it from me before he heard it from the woman.  I have no doubt that the attendant did not have a job at the end of the day.  Perhaps his manager, also.  The VP and I discussed in detail the gas station manager's culpability.   But, what you are telling me, ... telling us, is that you don't care how someone treats other people as long as you are happy with the results that you get from that person, be it your mechanic or the President of the United States, and, at the same time, telling us that people need to be more courteous.  You can't see what the current America First political stance really is?

Personally, I care if my mechanic or President is complete sleaze ball.  It would be naive to think a sleaze ball was screwing over other people, but not me and even should that be so, I have no interest in enabling him to screw anyone over by contributing to putting him in a position over other people.


"When we were in the off-stage announce tent, I was part of a conversation ... I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the president say something to the effect of, 'You know, I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take the effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the effing [magnetometers] away,'" Cassidy Hutchinson said during her testimony,

"He said something to the effect of, you know, eff the Secret Service. I'm the president. Take the effing mags away. They're not here to hurt me,'" she added.

Yeah.  The person leading the crowd doesn't matter.  Only the philosophy.

TDSImages wrote:
I just hope that you can respect opposing viewpoints such as mine with the same respect and courtesy that was afforded you.  This country would be in such a better place if we could all do this.  Then we might be able to sit down together to solve the problems that BOTH sides have created instead of devolving into emotionally based tribalism that is tearing our country apart today.

OK, let's give it a go. Let's establish some bases of agreement.

Joe Biden fairly won the 2020 election and Trump fairly lost, correct?

The attempt to prevent the certification of the election on January 6th was an illegal act of insurrection, correct?

Donald Trump failed his oath of office by refusing to defend the Constitution and put down the insurrection, correct?

Take your time.

TDSImages wrote:
I sure "hope" Trump comes back. 
he did sure helped the little guy like me. 
he's a complete sleazeball.

Remember, if you hope in one had and poop in the other, I can guarantee you which one will fill up first!! LoL
HOW do you think he will come back?
You may not believe this but I'M a little guy too. Please tell me HOW he helped me? Trampo ONLY helps himself.
On you're last point you are truly right.
John

LightDreams wrote:

With apologies to John Silva, I'm going to suggest a slightly different thread title:

Will Trump Run For President Again, and CLAIM to Have Won???

LoL, no offense taken!!
I don't think Trump will get the chance to put his new stolen election normal to the test this time around.
Maybe he can be DeSantes' campaign chief after the GOP cold shoulders him and he can run DeSantes' stolen election campaign.
John

Focuspuller wrote:
Deleted

By whom???
john

Focuspuller wrote:
Cannot see that Uber-ego not running again - for revenge if nothing else. DeSantis would have to decide to defer and wait his "turn", or take on trump and his MAGAt hordes head on, which would be disastrous for the unity of the Cult.

Trump will run for sure if he gets the chance.
Is it up to Merrick Garland? Maybe but lets not forget that he's a wanted man in both NY and Georgia. Any one of the 3 if not all 3 could take him down. AND there are still more than 2 years for more dirt to fall out of the closet!
DeSantes is for sure has got at least one foot in the water and Pence is becoming very visible as well
But who know, in two years maybe someone as dumb as Green might float to the top!!! LOL
John

John Silva Photography wrote:

By whom???
john

Me.

John Silva Photography wrote:
I don't think Trump will get the chance to put his new stolen election normal to the test this time around.
Maybe he can be DeSantes' campaign chief after the GOP cold shoulders him and he can run DeSantes' stolen election campaign.
John

I'm going to suggest that IF the GOP doesn't choose him as their candidate, he will sabotage the GOP campaign.

He will tell all of his supporters that the GOP selection was "stolen" from him and gear up his remaining GOP base support to fight / sabotage the GOP.   It's him or nothing.

Remember that EVERY campaign he has ever run, including to become the chosen candidate, he has (at some point) insisted that if he isn't selected then it will have been a "rigged" vote.   He has even made that claim at various stages of selection processes or elections that HE'S WON.  He has ALWAYS made that claim.

In his twisted brain, he can never legitimately lose.  Ever.  It's just too much for his "oh so fragile" ego to accept.

And he will sabotage any political party, campaign, or even try to sabotage democracy / the country, anytime he loses.  We know exactly who he is and I'd suggest that he's not going to suddenly "change his spots" when the GOP tries to go with DeSantis instead...

LightDreams wrote:
I'm going to suggest that IF the GOP doesn't choose him as their candidate, he will sabotage the GOP campaign.

He will tell all of his supporters that the GOP selection was "stolen" from him and gear up his remaining GOP base support to fight / sabotage the GOP.   It's him or nothing.

Remember that EVERY campaign he has ever run, including to become the chosen candidate, he has (at some point) insisted that if he isn't selected then it will have been a "rigged" vote.   He has even made that claim at various stages of selection processes or elections that HE'S WON.  He has ALWAYS made that claim.

In his twisted brain, he can never legitimately lose.  Ever.  It's just too much for his "oh so fragile" ego to accept.

And he will sabotage any political party, campaign, or even try to sabotage democracy / the country, anytime he loses.  We know exactly who he is and I'd suggest that he's not going to suddenly "change his spots" when the GOP tries to go with DeSantis instead...

If by some miracle the GOP suddenly develops the spine needed to move on past Trump--- If he doesnt get nominated- he will form a third party, effectively gutting the GOP by taking his cultists out of the party...

John Silva Photography wrote:
Maybe he can be DeSantes' campaign chief after the GOP cold shoulders him and he can run DeSantes' stolen election campaign.
John

Impossible. You're joking, right?

LightDreams wrote:

1, In his twisted brain, he can never legitimately lose.  Ever.  It's just too much for his "oh so fragile" ego to accept.

2, We know exactly who he is...

Unfortunately everything you say is very TRUE.
1, Yes his brain is very twisted but he's not stupid. being the 3rd generation of a crime family that got it's start in prostitution, he is extremely cunning and a master manipulator that knows exactly what he's doing, no matter how twisted or who he hurts or throws under the bus. He's a cold hearted master manipulator that will not take no for an answer.
2, THIS is what will be his undoing. Yes he has his retarded followers that like lemmings will sacrifice everything they'd never stood for to feel like they're making a difference but there are not enough of them to win an election. And now that the entire country knows he's little more than a lying, cheating red clown he will NOT gain voters and he didn't have enough last time, as I said as the most popular incumbent he'd ever be. I'm hoping the law will sort it out for us. Treason used to be death by firing squad, maybe all those he's wronged will get to throw a softball sized stone!!!
John

rfordphotos wrote:
If by some miracle the GOP suddenly develops the spine needed to move on past Trump--- If he doesnt get nominated- he will form a third party, effectively gutting the GOP by taking his cultists out of the party...

Trump is the creature leaping out of Kane's (GOP's) chest in Alien. He aint going away and the GOP cannot survive. It needs to be burned to the ground and rise again from the ashes cleansed of trump and trumpism, It may be impossible.

John Silva Photography wrote:
quote=LightDreams]
2, THIS is what will be his undoing.

You mean the Access Hollywood tape? Or maybe you mean the Mueller Report? Impeachment 1? Impeachment 2? One million Covid deaths? Gargling with Lysol?

trump is a cockroach. Ever try to kill one?

Focuspuller wrote:

Trump is the creature leaping out of Kane's (GOP's) chest in Alien. He aint going away and the GOP cannot survive. It needs to be burned to the ground and rise again from the ashes cleansed of trump and trumpism, It may be impossible.

The party I joined when I got back from my first overseas tour devolved slowly becoming less representative of centrist conservationism as time passed. By the TEA Party days it only rarely reflected any of the core values that had originally attracted me. With the ascendancy of the populist, hard right thinking led by Trump the GOP of old was dead and buried.

As long as any of the current party leadership is active, I wont be going back and will stay an unaffiliated independent. I dont expect to live long enough to see a "real" republican party again.

Focuspuller wrote:
...t, hard right thinking led by Trump the GOP of old was dead and buried.

The Trump cult calls anyone that doesn't absolutely worship and obey every Trump command a "RINO" (Republican in Name Only).

They are TOTALLY WRONG!!

A Real Republican isn't a cultist.  A real Republican will speak out against laws and policies that the person isn't aligned with and freely offer objections and alternatives for other Republicans to consider.  A REAL Republican is Embarrassed by Trump and all the bullshit brought to what was once a decent political party.

I've always suggested that the Trumpists start their own political party, because it certainly doesn't resemble the GOP that I was once a member of (I became unaffiliated when they started worshiping Sarah Palin, another total nutjob, but perfectly sane when compared to the likes of Trump, MTG, Rudy et al).  I suggest a Hippo as their logo/mascot to represent the Hippo-crites they really are!
-------------------
As a side note:  Dick Chaney is probably one of the most corrupt VP's we ever had.
How did he raise such a (seemingly) decent daghter???

rfordphotos wrote:

The party I joined when I got back from my first overseas tour devolved slowly becoming less representative of centrist conservationism as time passed. By the TEA Party days it only rarely reflected any of the core values that had originally attracted me. With the ascendancy of the populist, hard right thinking led by Trump the GOP of old was dead and buried.

As long as any of the current party leadership is active, I wont be going back and will stay an unaffiliated independent. I dont expect to live long enough to see a "real" republican party again.

Without consensus, the system cannot work. The combination of checks and balances, minority rights, and a slant towards the rural, slave states won't permit functional, democratic government, only paralysis. I don't know if we have the time to right the ship.

SayCheeZ!  wrote:
[[...]
As a side note:  Dick Chaney is probably one of the most corrupt VP's we ever had.
How did he raise such a (seemingly) decent daghter???

Context means everything--- Liz Cheney is currently performing as a decent person with some sort of social decency. I am grateful for her actions...

but---
"From 2017 to 2021, Cheney voted in line with Trump's position around 93% of the time, supporting him more consistently in House votes than many House Republican members, even his former chief of staff Mark Meadows. In 2019, according to the New York Times, Cheney publicly feuded with Rand Paul over who was "Trumpier". According to The Atlantic, she was a "loyal Trumpist" and helped build "the party of Trump" at that time."
----- Wikipedia


In the Trump world, people who act with a BARE minimum level of decency  sometimes stand out and look like stars---

Bill Barr is a prime example--- he was arguably the "toadiest" of Trump's toadies during his tenure as AG- since the worm turned he has spent enormous amounts of effort to rehabilitate his image... But he is still a slime ball, and always will be.


edit to add: should proof read my posts--- it is little billy barr not burr that I despise

rfordphotos wrote:
Context means everything--- Liz Cheney is currently performing as a decent person with some sort of social decency. I am grateful for her actions...

...In the Trump world, people who act with a BARE minimum level of decency  sometimes stand out and look like stars---

Bill Burr is a prime example--- he was arguably the "toadiest" of Trump's toadies during his tenure as AG- since the worm turned he has spent enormous amounts of effort to rehabilitate his image... But he is still a slime ball, and always will be.

I totally agree.
The rats are fleeing a sinking ship in hopes that the public will forget the lying, cheating, corruption they've been involved with and only judge (re-elect?) them based on their latest actions.  We'll see if their "better late than never" thinking will work for their future careers.

If Trump was re-elected the lying, cheating, and corruption would continue without any change from people like Liz and Barr.

With that being said, they're still much more brave than worms like Ted Cruz, all of the Florida gang, MTG (although she's legitimately too stupid to realize the scam)... etc.

FFantastique wrote:
Odds of success: very low.

Grover Cleveland only two-timer not consecutive.
Of course he didn’t hold record for # of impeachments either—which not likely to help.

Man on Mount Rushmore—Bull Moose guy tried.
Didn’t TR have a Medal of Honor…or two?
Did he win another term?

Sans bully pulpit, and pardon power, much harder to garner support like in times past.
But we’re in a post-truth era and with SM, swings CAN go viral.

Clancy-esque scenarios could occur and never say never but odds are slim.
Anorexic.

Someone might pardon him. Maybe he has already self pardoned unbeknownst to public. Constitutionality would be debatable but it can’t be legally be dismissed out of hand.

This based on objective assessment. Not wishes nor wants.

Reserve right to review, revise and resubmit.

[Assessment done without crystal ball, no access to inside info. Just history and digesting some of public info. Confidence in assessment: low to medium (previous assessments have been waaaay off! LoL). LeCarré and Clancy could have had a field day with the twists and turns and bona fide drama! Eg 25th? Why invoke? Just ask SS to drop the mags and let the crowd in. Then a nut might have had an accident. Then a Rubyesque figure steps in and then melee on the Mall, Pence could have been de facto POTUS—then no VP and how does that constitutionally play out legally. Wish Clancy was here to help sort it out! 😊. 🚬 is not good for life expectancy.)]

I often do the same thing--- find my self fantasizing about what one of the great authors of those twisted, convoluted mysteries I love to read could do with the Trump saga----

But then my stomach rolls and clenches up in knots as I remember this isnt good fiction, it is terrible truth... and the consequences arent likely to resolve themselves neatly in the last chapter, but instead will tumble thru our political landscape for years to come.

The fact that we are even discussing the --possibility-- that an ex-president, twice impeached, with a trail of unsavory legal entanglements thru out his entire adult life, a man who by all appearances made every effort possible to avoid the peaceful transfer of power after losing an election--- could run for election again, and even possibly win---- that simple fact speaks VOLUMES about how sick our democracy has become, and how close it is to absolute collapse.

FFantastique wrote:
LeCarré and Clancy could have had a field day with the twists and turns and bona fide drama!

FYI:

JOHN LE CARRE THINKS THE RUSSIANS HAVE SOMETHING ON TRUMP


https://www.thewrap.com/john-le-carre-t … ing-trump/

rfordphotos wrote:
The fact that we are even discussing the --possibility-- that an ex-president, twice impeached, with a trail of unsavory legal entanglements thru out his entire adult life, a man who by all appearances made every effort possible to avoid the peaceful transfer of power after losing an election--- could run for election again, and even possibly win---- that simple fact speaks VOLUMES about how sick our democracy has become, and how close it is to absolute collapse.

AGREED.

I will only add that the "canary in the coal mine" moment came in 2016, when the vaunted American political system reached into the bottom of the cesspool and elevated a steaming pile of shit to the most powerful position in the world. We may never get rid of the stench, or the stains on the walls of the White House, where Abraham Lincoln once lived.