Fred Ackerman wrote:
Think about the fact that over 74 Million citizens voted for Donald Trump in the last election. Didn't seem to matter what an awful 'president' he was. Talk about the best conman ever! Phineas Taylor Barnum was reported to have said "There's a sucker born every minute", oh yes.

I admit--- I do all kinds of mental gymnastics trying to reduce the inherent horror that number holds....

so far the best I have managed is to imagine a significant portion of them were voting "against" Joe Biden, not "for" Trump.


but I admit that is pretty weak sauce....

Fred Ackerman wrote:
Think about the fact that over 74 Million citizens voted for Donald Trump in the last election. Didn't seem to matter what an awful 'president' he was. Talk about the best conman ever! Phineas Taylor Barnum was reported to have said "There's a sucker born every minute", oh yes.

I will wholeheartedly agree, that with all the blatant stealing, cheating and crime Trampo did that 74M US citizens could bring themselves to vote for the barf that he was. Obviously behind closed doors about half of this country has neither morals or shame. BUT he won't get MORE votes, he'll get less making an almost impossible win. Yes there will be a great price to pay for Trampo losing but as they say, no paina no gaina!
I'm not saying it won't be messy and it's extremely sad to think that there are 74M racist, bigots, white race only closet dwellers coming out into the light. Suddenly CRT is so real you can cut it with a knife. The next generations lynching trees are being planted as we speak!!!
John

LightDreams wrote:
"And yes, I agree that (should Trump still be alive and healthy considering his diet and lifestyle), he WILL at least try and launch a run as an independent".

Yes that is all true but if all goes well, that will be hard to do from a prison cell, even for Trump!!!

John

MN Photography wrote:
I seriously doubt that Trump would even get the GOP nomination.  Not that many Republicans will say it out loud, but Trump's man baby act has worn pretty thin with about half of Republicans.

Trump won the nomination with about 45% percent of primary votes in 2016.  He lost the popular vote by 3 million in 2016 and 7 million in 2020.  His approval ratings never pierced 50% at any point during his term in office.  Irregardless of the delusions of  his cult-like followers, this guy has never had the support of even half the country. And he hasn't done anything since leaving office to improve on that.

I don't want to see Biden run in 2024 either.  I really don't think that many voters are looking forward to presidential race between a guy in his 80s running against a guy who will be nearly 80. 

If you want to vote for octogenarians, that's what the US senate is for.

Yes this is pretty much what I said in the beginning.
I think what scares everyone so much is that the polls were SOOO far off in 2016 that it's that thought that shakes people up so much. 2 1/2 years is a long time and a lot can happen. for example when Trampo first got into the race in 2015 everybody thought he was a joke, and he was but he still won!? But he's further and further behind every day. The midterms will tell a big story toward what will happen in 24. I think many are a little skeptical about Biden running again but not many are likely to flip and vote for Trampo instead of Biden. IF there's another dem they may go that way but NO dem will say that they'd rather vote for Trampo than the dem nominee, whoever it happens to be! And no matter who wins the republican nomination I don't see any dems flipping for that person but only republicans flipping for dems.
You're right about one thing, to pick from 2 eighty year olds would not be pretty!!!
John

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
America...
Que:The Doors
This is the end

Truly. The very fact that it is even CONCEIVABLE that the American political system could actually restore the MAGA/Reich to power, Mango Moron and all his rabid brain dead acolytes, foot-soldiers, enablers, apologists, sleazy scumbag lawyers, idiot backbenchers, proto-fascists and full-on White Walkers is PROOF the American Experiment in republican democracy has failed. Spectacularly. A public allowing this to happen deserves what it looks like it may very well get - a ravaged and dying planet ruled by the Billionaire Class of Plundercrats who are already planning their escape from the HELL they are making out of Planet Earth.

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
America...
Que:The Doors
This is the end

That ^^^

I started to say no but I wouldn't be surprised if he did and won. He is running to stay in power because he is 1. Scared.  2. A narcissist. I don't know anything anymore and that shit up there is why. It is the end of us.

Papro wrote:
TRUMP 2024 is almost utopia vs any other options in 2024
If that happens, the economy will be American by mid-term in office.

At one point in time, lots of people in Germany loved Hitler. How did that work out for those devoted followers?

roger alan wrote:

At one point in time, lots of people in Germany loved Hitler. How did that work out for those devoted followers?

You can't compare trump to Hitler.

Hitler loved dogs.

Papro wrote:
TRUMP 2024 is almost utopia vs any other options in 2024
If that happens, the economy will be American by mid-term in office.

An honest question.

If, despite his promises, he didn't deliver during his first 4 year term.  Especially during the first two years where the economy was still doing relatively well, plus Trump and the Republicans had FULL control, i.e. the Presidency, the Congress and the Senate...

Why would another couple of years of Trump be so different, this time around?

I honestly would like to understand.  So thank-you in advance...

Papro wrote:
TRUMP 2024 is almost utopia vs any other options in 2024
If that happens, the economy will be American by mid-term in office.

So far at least, this Supreme Court still "allows" you to have, and express your own political feelings. Let's hope that never changes.

That said, I admit your position baffles me. (But that is a discussion for a different time and place)

Could you help me understand what you mean "the economy will be American"?

LightDreams wrote:
My personal guess on "the economy will be American" was Trump's repeated promises during the 2016 election that AMERICAN coal and manufacturing jobs would come back, rather than continuing to move offshore.

3 to 4 years later, Trump CLAIMED (repeatedly) that it had happened and was a big success.   As has been pointed out countless times, basically, he lied through his teeth.

American coal jobs dropped another 15% under Trump, and the coal output dropped even more.  American manufacturing (before the pandemic) lost more than 720,000 jobs under Trump, all while Trump kept talking about the "American Manufacturing Miracle".

The figures show that most of the people that lost their manufacturing jobs found lower paying jobs in the service industry (restaurants, etc).   But that didn't stop Trump from claiming in the State of the Union, that he had created a “great American comeback” and generated a “blue-collar boom” with "strong wage gains for lower-income workers".

All lies, unfortunately.  Manufacturing plant workers in key swing states, were one of the changes / reasons that Trump lost in 2020.  You can bullsh*t them all day long about "manufacturing miracles", but if they lost their manufacturing jobs under Trump, it's a lot harder to get them to vote for Trump...

The worldwide reality is that robots and 3d printing are just now starting to make a difference but within the next 10 years there will be a massive reduction in manufacturing jobs everywhere. It may come sooner, it won't go away.
China is currently the leader in robotics for manufacturing, they don't want to pay workers when robots will work 24/7.
3d printers can make parts that take considerable (and expensive) tooling and man hours to generate now.

Robots will run 3d printers in the factories of the future.

Shadow Dancer wrote:
The worldwide reality is that robots and 3d printing are just now starting to make a difference but within the next 10 years there will be a massive reduction in manufacturing jobs everywhere. It may come sooner, it won't go away.
China is currently the leader in robotics for manufacturing, they don't want to pay workers when robots will work 24/7.
3d printers can make parts that take considerable (and expensive) tooling and man hours to generate now.

Robots will run 3d printers in the factories of the future.

Great point!

As the American factories catch up (or buy) that robotic manufacturing equipment, they WILL be better able to compete with the foreign manufacturing plants.   That's because, due to automation, the offshore wage differences become so much less of a factor in the overall cost.

That means it WILL become easier for American manufacturing plants to compete with offshore plants, BUT WITHOUT all those American workers.  That's the truly dark "twist" in restoring "American" manufacturing...

Shadow Dancer wrote:
The worldwide reality is that robots and 3d printing are just now starting to make a difference but within the next 10 years there will be a massive reduction in manufacturing jobs everywhere. It may come sooner, it won't go away.
China is currently the leader in robotics for manufacturing, they don't want to pay workers when robots will work 24/7.
3d printers can make parts that take considerable (and expensive) tooling and man hours to generate now.

Robots will run 3d printers in the factories of the future.

Kurt Vonnegut called it in 1952.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_%28novel%29

1952.

LightDreams wrote:

Great point!

As the American factories catch up (or buy) that robotic manufacturing equipment, they WILL be better able to compete with the foreign manufacturing plants.   That's because, due to automation, the offshore wage differences become so much less of a factor in the overall cost.

That means it WILL become easier for American manufacturing plants to compete with offshore plants, BUT WITHOUT all those American workers.  That's the truly dark "twist" in restoring "American" manufacturing...

Gotta love unregulated Capitalism. First it exploits workers, then ends up eliminating workers altogether. Brilliant! So who cares if the planet will eventually not be able to support human life. Who will need humans? Certainly not the hundred thousand quadrillionaires living on Mars and their AI robots running the show down here..

Focuspuller wrote:

Kurt Vonnegut called it in 1952.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_Piano_%28novel%29

1952.

True, but there are earlier viewpoints on the topics/concepts as well.
https://www.thinkautomation.com/bots-an … ts-and-ai/

And, LightDreams, this will affect ALL countries where manufacturing is part of the economy.
Canada comes to mind, our friendly neighbor to the North will be streamlining production as well as they will want to stay competitive in the world market.

FWiW, I ran a 3d printer in 2014 while working for a company that made interiors for commercial airliners.
Prototypes for parts like seat-back swivels cost about $1,600 for a pair back then and took six weeks to obtain after ordering. We were able to "print" these prototypes from in-house CAD drawings in 2-3 days time. Actual print time was much shorter, maybe 4 hours. Newer 3d printers are much faster and have a wider range of materials they can use/create.

I've read that Nvidia is working on robots in their R&D that can learn how to perform a procedure by "watching" the procedure being done - AI driven instead of writing code. If they can get that up and running it will be a huge game-changer in the world of robotics.

Of interest to photographers, recent versions of Photoshop (including the version of Photoshop Elements 2021 that I own) are using AI to increase productivity. 2021 Elements has a new "Select Subject" feature in the Select menu. Simply click the Select Subject feature in the menu and it does the rest. That's what I used to select the model for the "ghost image" in this photo - I did have to select the shoes and touch up a couple of small details but it took care of everything else in less than a minute, very clean selection and the AI decided what to select. The model in the window was added later.
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/47510238

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Tellingly....They are already down grading the the whole crux of the issue against Trump.
it was implied and hyped at the start that he organized the protestors to go into the building.  now however, the angle is how long he took to call the protestors to go home. in poker.. thats whats called "a tell". they are telegraphing to lower expectations. they did it before the Mueller hearings also.

second, Trump isnt going to prison. dont even bother thinking that. not going to happen 100%. its about as real as the multiple Mueller "we've got him!".

the question is, can he win, yep. sure he could if he runs or if they dont contrive something so he cant.. the other question is do most republicans want him to run. that....however is a roll of the dice.

fact is, the Biden presidency was a raging dumpster fire...from Covid to Afghanistan to the economy to the media running interference for someone who wasnt all there and the suppression of his sons dealings..

but hey, you got what you wanted....a democrat for president. and thanks to that....the next president is going to be a republican 100%.   the American people werent shown...how its supposed to be done.

And I thought the rose colored glasses went to the grave with Janis!?!
Trampo will NOT win again. For sure even if there was a republican next president it won't be trump. Trump is the most cowardly child to ever to occupy the WH. "The stop the steal", strong arming Secretaries of State to find him votes, calling Pence cowardly for certifying the election! WHEN is the orange haired BIMBO going to take responsibility for his screwed up useless life? Pence had nothing to do with it. Raffensperger had nothing to do with it. The electoral college had nothing to do with it. When will trump take responsibility and publicly admit it was he, and he alone that lost the election? Last I checked he was the ONLY one running!!! It was his election to lose and he screwed the pooch by running his big mouth constantly. Any US President that goes toe to toe with individual Americans to belittle them is a small baby and deserved to go down in flames marinated in his own stench. History is gonna have a field day with that inept con-man.
Prison? I won't pay a penny to feed that clown in a prison. What he was/is doing is equal to treason! For that I believe he'll get to have a duel with a firing squad!
John

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Tellingly....They are already down grading the the whole crux of the issue against Trump.
it was implied and hyped at the start that he organized the protestors to go into the building.  now however, the angle is how long he took to call the protestors to go home. in poker.. thats whats called "a tell". they are telegraphing to lower expectations. they did it before the Mueller hearings also.

second, Trump isnt going to prison. dont even bother thinking that. not going to happen 100%. its about as real as the multiple Mueller "we've got him!".

the question is, can he win, yep. sure he could if he runs or if they dont contrive something so he cant.. the other question is do most republicans want him to run. that....however is a roll of the dice.

fact is, the Biden presidency was a raging dumpster fire...from Covid to Afghanistan to the economy to the media running interference for someone who wasnt all there and the suppression of his sons dealings..

but hey, you got what you wanted....a democrat for president. and thanks to that....the next president is going to be a republican 100%.   the American people werent shown...how its supposed to be done.

I think they have enough to put him away if they really want to. If nothing else they could get him for endangering other road users.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Tellingly....They are already down grading the the whole crux of the issue against Trump.
it was implied and hyped at the start that he organized the protestors to go into the building.  now however, the angle is how long he took to call the protestors to go home. in poker.. thats whats called "a tell". they are telegraphing to lower expectations. they did it before the Mueller hearings also.

second, Trump isnt going to prison. dont even bother thinking that. not going to happen 100%. its about as real as the multiple Mueller "we've got him!".

the question is, can he win, yep. sure he could if he runs or if they dont contrive something so he cant.. the other question is do most republicans want him to run. that....however is a roll of the dice.

fact is, the Biden presidency was a raging dumpster fire...from Covid to Afghanistan to the economy to the media running interference for someone who wasnt all there and the suppression of his sons dealings..

but hey, you got what you wanted....a democrat for president. and thanks to that....the next president is going to be a republican 100%.   the American people werent shown...how its supposed to be done.

"They are already down grading the the whole crux of the issue against Trump.
it was implied and hyped at the start that he organized the protestors to go into the building.  now however, the angle is how long he took to call the protestors to go home."

Total bullshit. The "angle" is that Dumbo both INCITED AND ENCOURAGED the insurrection AND did nothing to stop it. EVERYBODY knows Mango Moron could not himself ORGANIZE anything more complex than an order of Big Macs for the Clemson football team, and that was a stretch..

"the question is, can he win, yep. sure he could if he runs or if they dont contrive something so he cant."

If by "they" you mean the Founders, they already did. It's called the Fourteenth Amendment Article 3. Read it  and weep:

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability"

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
Tellingly....They are already down grading the the whole crux of the issue against Trump.

The right, being the least educated segment of the American public, doesn't have the ability to read or watch complex narratives, much less comprehend anything longer than tweets, and still understand the significance of the parts of the whole.  This also applies to visual productions of complex historical and contemporary events.  It is, as had been said about trump, that the rightist is convinced by the last person to get his attention.  Because the rightist limits their input to the sources which conform to their world view, regardless as to the validity of the position, it is conceivable that the right wing liars that control the thoughts of the rightist political lemmings, means that someone on the right has fed our friends and colleagues the idea that this most recent segment of the exposé is a capitulation, rather than an integral part of the story.

What trump did during the seditious attack on the capital and democracy, as presented by the January 6th Commission, can be equated to a sequential act in a play or a chapter in a saga.  If anyone doesn't comprehend the place of this last hearing in the sequence of events, then they can go back to Cheney's comment which laid out the midpoint of the theatrics when she said that trump “summoned the mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack.”  Theatrically, those would be the portion of the play or movie proceeding, "And then he demonstrated his intent was being carried out by the mob by refusing to call for his minions to break off the attack."

To simplify this further for the rightist mind, consider the composition of a play-

"Acts are major divisions of drama. in varying degrees the 5 act structure corresponded to the 5 main divisions of dramatic action, exposition, complication, climax, falling action, catastrophe."

Exposition:
Act 1: part 1 and 2: trump served as President of the right, not of the nation, and he alienated a majority of the voters. Therefore, trump lost the election.
Complication:
Act 2: part 1: trump was too much of a narcissist to admit defeat
Act 2: part 2: trump lied to his people about the election results
Act 2: part 3: trump conspired with other anti-American, malignant actors who were bent on sedition to overturn the election and those morally bereft participants benefited by the willful blindness and fear engrained in the Republican party, which has descended to a philosophy of getting what they want by any means necessary regardless of law, ethics or morality.
Climax:
Act 3: parts 1, 2 and 3: The attack (trump summoned the mob, assembled the mob, lit the flame of this attack)
Act 3: part 4: trump prolonged the violence: He demonstrated his intent was being carried out by the mob by refusing to call for his minions to break off the attack. 
Falling action:
Act 4: part 1: trump's actions after the attack: Continuing to promote the big lie.
Act 4: part 2: (In the process of being written) Indictment and criminal prosecution.
Act 4: part 3: (In the process of being written) trump's attempt to subvert justice by running for office and claiming (1) It is a political prosecution and (2) promotes the false claim that he can't be prosecuted because he is a presidential candidate and therefore enjoys some immunity and, also has immunity as president if he is elected.  Sub-context: The underlying acceptance of these morally and legally untenable positions that are being accepted by the morally corrupt Republicans and Libertarians underscores the debased society they represent.
Catastrophe:
Act 5: (To be written) trumps reelection and the dismantling of American democracy, the Constitution and the fall of the United States as a world leader and the elevation of the status of China and Russia on the world stage.
Saga continues in the sequels.

Obviously, it is far too complicated for the rightist's attention span and the rightist's ability to comprehend.  Which does not bode well.


Edit:
The New York POST, not the Times, the trump supporting POST, said, "It’s up to the Justice Department to decide if this is a crime. But as a matter of principle, as a matter of character, Trump has proven himself unworthy to be this country’s chief executive again."  AS A MATTER OF CHARACTER!   “Character is revealed in a crisis, and Mr. Pence passed his Jan. 6 trial. Mr. Trump utterly failed his,” the WALL STREET JOURNAL editorial board  (another bastion of trump support) added.   trump has never had the character to be a leader.  Maybe it is about time trump minions started paying attention and putting country over their godless, corrupt, narcissistic, golden idol.

Tony From Syracuse wrote:
the other question is do most republicans want him to run. that....however is a roll of the dice.

That is exactly how you can tell just how effective the Jan 6th hearings have been.

I've pointed out before that the polls of Republicans have had quite a significant shift since the hearings started.  They still generally defend Trump but, remarkably, there's been a dramatic drop in the number of them that actually want Trump to run again.

That major shift has been quite dramatic since the hearings started.   Even those who didn't watch the hearings are quite aware of the reporting, and the numbers show that it's clearly "hitting a nerve".  I.E.  "I'm all for Trumpism", but "do I really want Trump himself, again?".  That's the troubling thought that keeps nagging at them.

All while claiming that the Jan 6th hearings were useless or ineffective...

---

By the way.  Not only did the NY Post and the Wall Street Journal do a full on attack on Trump, making clear that he shouldn't ever be elected again, but Fox News is also getting interesting.

Fox News is having to take a more subtle approach with its viewers (they don't want to lose them like the last time that they attempted to throw Trump under the bus).  On the same day as Rupert Murdoch's NY Post and Wall Street Journal attacked Trump, his Fox News network refused to carry Trump's rally.

Guess what Fox news replaced Trump's rally with?   They brought in Rick DeSantis...

LightDreams wrote:

Fox News is having to take a more subtle approach with its viewers (they don't want to lose them like the last time that they attempted to throw Trump under the bus).  On the same day as Rupert Murdoch's NY Post and Wall Street Journal attacked Trump, his Fox News network refused to carry Trump's rally.

In fact Fox news recently interviewed Liz Cheney, I'm sure to make a mockery and discredit her. It turns out that nobody at fox news knows more facts about 1/6 than Liz Cheney!
The bottom line...., none of this would have happened without Trampo at the helm. No matter HOW they/the right can spin this, the facts are there that it was a Trampo baby hatched by Trampo and his childish jr lawyers. The ENTIRE attack was based on a lie, not even facts and all spun by Trampo.
This act was pure treason by a sitting US president. Bruce Mumford was hung by the neck till dead for a lot less than the damage Trampo has done to this country!!!
John