veypurr wrote:
Photographers should be forced to retire at 47

I have been doing photography since I was about 20, but I was older than 47 before I did my first shoot with a model in 2008.

MatureModelMM wrote:
"Creepy has never been associated with the age of a photographer or artist. I pick who to work with by quality of their work"

MatureModelMM gets it. Photography, just like modeling, is an art form and quality is everything.

ImageMakerStudio wrote:
I'm 62 and the average age of the models I work with us about 28 or so (ranging from 23 - 33). They all appreciate my experience and expertise. I'm friends with many of them, personally. A big part of my relationships with my models is the fact, and I make it clear from the get go, that I'm very married and have been for the last 37 years. I don't want to mess that up. I have almost a father / daughter situation with a few of them. I'm very protective of them, they know they're safe with me and they trust me. I never want to violate that trust.....or my professionalism. We reside in a mid-sized Midwestern community. The availability of models is limited so I value the talent I have developed professional relationships with.

I have found my age to be a huge advantage.

I totally agree.  Many photographers are considered 'distinguished' by their age.  ( Have that Ansel Adams look going).  Experience.   Many models recognize this. I believe many who browse' here at MM over photographers, look at the work they do, and the well known models they've worked with. That sort of proves their quality,,and definitely influenced their choice to add them or contact to see if they have some project that might fit her style with his work.   
     All the younger guys have it a bit tougher I'd guess, to get established and gain respect and trust to begin, maybe for a few years to start off.

Adventure Photos wrote:
I'm just turning 72. Starting to look 'old' lately after several repeat surgeries, no activity and long rercoveries.  Had an active life until 67, but still looked late 40's at that age.   So no 'creepy' old guy stuff ever came up from photography work.  But one model I've followed since she started here just over a year ago, and we used to converse with weekly at least, where we both trusted and chatted plenty here at MM and on her private phone.  Well she went silent suddenly late last May and of course I was concerned.  No posts, no texts, no message replies here at MM, no updates, very few pics added.   Wouldn't you be worried too, that something might have happened to a model you kept in contact with?   
        By end of summer I ran into some very private, erotic pic elsewhere. They looked like work similar to that done by a MM photographer she works with alot.  So I thought she got hacked, pics stolen and reposted, etc.  I tried to reach out, inquired without going into details.  She assured me all was ok, several times, but no details like we shared before.
     I can understand if she chose to boldly take on some much more erotic, private work, but when her photographer comments to her that my interest is 'creepy', well she just disappeared from contact for the next 6 months. She still was adding on hundreds of new photographer friends here at MM, but that's all.  No work, no pics to add to profile, never a message,  just 2 or 3 old pics from way back in spring that she finally got from her early photo work.. 
       So by early Jan this year,  well I saw somewhere else on the internet, some bits of her new porn career.    OK,, so I'm shocked!  Yes, it's her business and she can choose her goals..  But I felt deceived by a friend, for not at least a warning or a " I'm going a different route and won't be able to chat much in months ahead.".  Just a heads up would have been nice. .   Am I 'creepy' for being concerned?    Felt pretty crummy for genuine concern to be called 'creepy'.

You're a man in his 70s.
Who's "friends" with a young woman.


Let's pretend for a moment that the year is (assume a year when your mother/sister/daughter was the age of the model in question)..
Then let's pretend that the young woman is Your mother. Or your sister. Or your daughter. Pick one. Run with it.
She has this random "friend" she may politely chat with here and there for a few weeks. Without giving it much thought, the young woman lives her life and doesn't keep a filofax of all the "friends" she casually chats with, much less feels the need to alert everyone on her "friends" list to her private shenanigans.

"She assured me all was ok, several times, but no details like we shared before." should have been good enough.
The fact that you went deeper AFTER you were reassured SEVERAL TIMES, that's what puts you in the box with the creepers.

Age itself has little to do with it, until you made it so.

Adventure Photos wrote:
I'm just turning 72. Starting to look 'old' lately after several repeat surgeries, no activity and long rercoveries.  Had an active life until 67, but still looked late 40's at that age.   So no 'creepy' old guy stuff ever came up from photography work.  But one model I've followed since she started here just over a year ago, and we used to converse with weekly at least, where we both trusted and chatted plenty here at MM and on her private phone.  Well she went silent suddenly late last May and of course I was concerned.  No posts, no texts, no message replies here at MM, no updates, very few pics added.   Wouldn't you be worried too, that something might have happened to a model you kept in contact with?   
        By end of summer I ran into some very private, erotic pic elsewhere. They looked like work similar to that done by a MM photographer she works with alot.  So I thought she got hacked, pics stolen and reposted, etc.  I tried to reach out, inquired without going into details.  She assured me all was ok, several times, but no details like we shared before.
     I can understand if she chose to boldly take on some much more erotic, private work, but when her photographer comments to her that my interest is 'creepy', well she just disappeared from contact for the next 6 months. She still was adding on hundreds of new photographer friends here at MM, but that's all.  No work, no pics to add to profile, never a message,  just 2 or 3 old pics from way back in spring that she finally got from her early photo work.. 
       So by early Jan this year,  well I saw somewhere else on the internet, some bits of her new porn career.    OK,, so I'm shocked!  Yes, it's her business and she can choose her goals..  But I felt deceived by a friend, for not at least a warning or a " I'm going a different route and won't be able to chat much in months ahead.".  Just a heads up would have been nice. .   Am I 'creepy' for being concerned?    Felt pretty crummy for genuine concern to be called 'creepy'.

Your "concern" is paternalistic at best but sounds more like stalking to me. You just "ran into" private erotic pictures of this model, huh? And you reached out to make sure she was ok? Why wouldn't she be ok? She is an adult and chose to shoot work that you clearly don't approve of. She assured you she was fine, but you didn't believe it, and continued searching for evidence. So I'd like to know how someone just happens to see bits of someone's porn career on the internet, unless they were searching for it? Then you admit you felt "deceived." Why? Why does she owe you any explanation for her choices? Why do you expect her to notify you when you clearly disapprove of such work and assume if she's doing porn she must not be ok? That's not the actions of a friend. Friends are supportive and non-judgmental. You are neither. You are trying to gatekeep her life. You are stalking her on the internet and then passing it off as concern. Just stop it. She's made it clear she doesn't want to talk to you anymore.

Model MoRina wrote:
Your "concern" is paternalistic at best but sounds more like stalking to me. You just "ran into" private erotic pictures of this model, huh? And you reached out to make sure she was ok? Why wouldn't she be ok? She is an adult and chose to shoot work that you clearly don't approve of. She assured you she was fine, but you didn't believe it, and continued searching for evidence. So I'd like to know how someone just happens to see bits of someone's porn career on the internet, unless they were searching for it? Then you admit you felt "deceived." Why? Why does she owe you any explanation for her choices? Why do you expect her to notify you when you clearly disapprove of such work and assume if she's doing porn she must not be ok? That's not the actions of a friend. Friends are supportive and non-judgmental. You are neither. You are trying to gatekeep her life. You are stalking her on the internet and then passing it off as concern. Just stop it. She's made it clear she doesn't want to talk to you anymore.

I didn't 'stalk'   It was not a disapproval. This is what people are incorrectly reading into it. Yes, paternalistic I'd agree could be said.  When people just shut down without a word, there is a reason.   I asked, but got an incorrect response.  Truly thought that her photographers pics were stolen and reposted.   Yes, it's her choice to do as she pleases.  It was very uncharacteristic of her to not say just something as a hint.  I won't go into all the other personal revelations she shared for months, as a friend, in conversation. Relaxed , happy, and eager.  Then nothing?   If you are a parent or educator, you know that's a sign of something big changing.  I did not 'search the porn of internet'.  I don't care about porn, don't know the workings of porn sites, not signed up for even OnlyFans,  and don't associate the exotic work done here as 'port'.
     Since friending and conversing, I'd on occasion do a simple Google search of model screen name, to catch any growth of her well advancing career to other photographers not on MM.   Most months just popped up with MM'.  But mid January was when the unknown, unheard of link of some forum had record of her name.   Went there, found the  porn background went back at least 11 months.  So yeah,  shocked, and felt a bit deceived.  It was not a 'porn search' , or stalking.  Nor creepy'.
     Does this go back to the original topic here of older photographers and younger models as 'creepy'?    I'd guess then that any person who has a negative opinion of older male photographers doing shoots with models younger than 40, or more than a 20 year age difference, has already made up their mind on this subject.     
     I'm not a top rated photographer. Some here are.   I'd think that if they have a model they like to use alot, for various fashion or other shoots, they MAY have a concern of their much used model choosing to be in porn.    It could affect their choice of using her in future work, as it can reflect on an approval of him,, of HIS choice of models to work with..   So I'd think some may search out or want to know if a model chose a different career path in her modeling.   For his own professional name.   That  is not my excuse since I have not  established that work record.   But I can understand how it could be of importance to know your models.

Model MoRina wrote:
She's made it clear she doesn't want to talk to you anymore.

This.
A thousand times this.

Adventure Photos wrote:
I asked, but got an incorrect response.

Because you're the type who wouldn't take the truth and be okay with it. " I don't feel like discussing my private life with you any longer" would have had you bore even more, just like you are doing now in your backpedal defense.

Adventure Photos wrote:
It was very uncharacteristic of her to not say just something as a hint.

You didn't take the hint....

Adventure Photos wrote:
I'd guess then that any person who has a negative opinion of older male photographers doing shoots with models younger than 40, or more than a 20 year age difference, has already made up their mind on this subject.

Negative.

Ken Marcus, well into his.. I dare say 60s, and Phillip Ritchie, who I know celebrated his 70th a minute ago, both well respected members of this and other communities, are just two of the examples of utmost gentlemen to work with, and the most fun to shoot with.

It's just you, you're creepy, after a while people (models) pick up on it, and turn away.

Adventure Photos wrote:
I'm not a top rated photographer. Some here are.   I'd think that if they have a model they like to use alot, for various fashion or other shoots, they MAY have a concern of their much used model choosing to be in porn.    It could affect their choice of using her in future work, as it can reflect on an approval of him,, of HIS choice of models to work with..   So I'd think some may search out or want to know if a model chose a different career path in her modeling.   For his own professional name.

This is so much none of your business....

Adventure Photos wrote:
I care about people; you'd dump them  and not care if they lived or died I guess if an unexpected event happened.

Of course, if it's not black, it's white, that's how all of that works, doesn't it. 

I see that I flustered you, maybe there is some truth to our assumptions after all, hm?

You seem to be someone who felt terribly left out and started to poke around. Found something you don't approve of. Now talking in circles on the forum.

Adventure Photos wrote:
...Haters hate, and that's just sad.

Sir,
Respectfully, let it go. You have an opinion about your behavior and motives. Somebody else (and more than one person) indicated that your methods could be interpreted differently than your intentions. It is what it is.

Instead of digging your heels in, this might be a time for some introspection. I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but if you don’t at least take in what’s being noted, that’s possibly a lost opportunity to learn something.

AgX wrote:

Sir,
Respectfully, let it go. You have an opinion about your behavior and motives. Somebody else (and more than one person) indicated that your methods could be interpreted differently than your intentions. It is what it is.

Instead of digging your heels in, this might be a time for some introspection. I’m not saying you’re right or wrong, but if you don’t at least take in what’s being noted, that’s possibly a lost opportunity to learn something.

Wait, are we old yet? *Yawn*

Nat the droid wrote:

Wait, are we old yet? *Yawn*

Yawn,, yes some of us are.    You're looking very good for 114 as listed.  See, as long as we keep at our fun modeling and photo work, we can stay young forever.  But with age, we might get a bit cranky and stubborn on some issues.  And sleepy too.

Nat the droid wrote:
Wait, are we old yet? *Yawn*

Yes, we're old. Let me know when you're coming down so I can photography your barely-held-together bones again. Using that old old film stuff.

AgX wrote:

Yes, we're old. Let me know when you're coming down so I can photography your barely-held-together bones again. Using that old old film stuff.

As much as I love being poked and prodded in trauma 1 I will attempt to hold myself together long enough 😂

Adventure Photos wrote:

Yawn,, yes some of us are.    You're looking very good for 114 as listed.  See, as long as we keep at our fun modeling and photo work, we can stay young forever.  But with age, we might get a bit cranky and stubborn on some issues.  And sleepy too.

I'm a cranky art model that spent the first few years of COVID as a hospice and elder care aide

This was my attempt at doing the internet version of helping a memory care client get a shirt in their hand instead of the Depends around their neck

Accept the feedback my dude

Am I upset I used to be the strongest person who could manually lift people and now I'm a fall risk and get special red socks when I get admitted to the hospital? A bit, but that's life.

Adventure Photos wrote:
Relaxed , happy, and eager.

There's a clue there if you want to find it.

Also you appear to have a beef with 'her photographer',which is another clue.

It seems to be a possession thing going on, disguised as concern.

That's just how it reads to me, so I may be misinterpreting.

I do get it: the older you get the more youth and vitality appeal, but you've got to treat it like the weather - it comes and goes as it pleases, and there's no controlling it.

Dea and the Beast wrote:
Ken Marcus, well into his.. I dare say 60s,

Dea . . . Just to set the record straight, I recently turned 76 !
But, I'll accept "into my 60's" any day of the week

After all these years, I'm still doing business, running my studio, in good health and shooting young models.

Life could be worse !

KM

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:

Dea . . . Just to set the record straight, I recently turned 76 !
But, I'll accept "into my 60's" any day of the week

After all these years, I'm still doing business, running my studio, in good health and shooting young models.

Life could be worse !

KM

It's a rotten job but somebody has to do it. :-)

peter vic wrote:
Generally speaking young people are creeped out by older people. That's all just part of our culture. Just find models who don't get creeped out ... and vice versa. It's easier to get a good fit in a larger metropolitan area.

Or shoot older models. Just an idea who says youth is everything.