Rays Fine Art wrote:
Well, it's just a guess, but I suspect that if you don't want to go to preshoot meetings, you don't engage in careful and complete discussion of  of your needs and expectations via PM either.  It's a "buyer beware" world out there and if you don't take advantage of the means at your disposal to examine the "merchandise"  before buying, then the fault is at least as much yours as the seller's, I would think.
All IMHO as always, of course.

Oh I gave up on trying to set up Pre shoot meetings many years ago - All those young woman are far too busy for such

And now I am aware that some of them might think I am trying to actually have a coffee date with them ( under the guise of the preshoot meeting)

Rays Fine Art wrote:
And on a different note,  Ageism is another of the realities in the world in which we all exist, and it goes both ways.  From the 18 to 22 year old model who considers any photographer over 45 to be a "dirty old man" just waiting for them to fall into his trap to the photographer of any age that won't consider any model  over 25, it's real and a factor we have to deal with.

I turn 82 this year and everyday I see casting notices that call for an "elderly man, 55-60.  Whatever my skill and appearance and suitability for the part, my SAG card isn't much of a buffer against that level of ignorance.  So I don't see any fault on the model's part for fudging his or her age a bit.  I just accept that it may be a possibility and proceed on that basis.

Don't get me wrong, I love shooting 18-25-year-olds.  Their excitement and enthusiasm can be a delight,   But any photographer that dismisses the older, more experienced model is shooting himself in the foot in my opinion. The experience, mature talent and understanding of the whole photographer/model relationship in creating an artistically and/or commercially viable image can make all the difference in the success of the shoot.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Well I am neither an Artist or a Commercial Photographer

I started my Model Photographer after I became friends ( and a strong supporter ) of the fellow who started our Fashion Week here 19 years ago ( now the second largest in N America ) and suddenly I was thrust into the world of all these youngwomen playing dress up .

So that is what i have stuck with

Rays Fine Art wrote:
And on a different note,  Ageism is another of the realities in the world in which we all exist, and it goes both ways.  From the 18 to 22 year old model who considers any photographer over 45 to be a "dirty old man" just waiting for them to fall into his trap to the photographer of any age that won't consider any model  over 25, it's real and a factor we have to deal with.

I turn 82 this year and everyday I see casting notices that call for an "elderly man, 55-60.  Whatever my skill and appearance and suitability for the part, my SAG card isn't much of a buffer against that level of ignorance.  So I don't see any fault on the model's part for fudging his or her age a bit.  I just accept that it may be a possibility and proceed on that basis.

Don't get me wrong, I love shooting 18-25-year-olds.  Their excitement and enthusiasm can be a delight,   But any photographer that dismisses the older, more experienced model is shooting himself in the foot in my opinion. The experience, mature talent and understanding of the whole photographer/model relationship in creating an artistically and/or commercially viable image can make all the difference in the success of the shoot.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Yes - and those who write such casting calls are probably post teens

I think the general societal view at this time is that 40-60 is middle age

My morher ( bless her healthy heart ) is pushing 97 and I think for her middle age was 40 to about 75

Santa Claus wrote:
But all my friends tell me I look 10 years younger...

You are ageless Bud

Eric212Grapher wrote:
For the most part, models who ‘cheat’ their age in their profile Details, by adjusting their birthdate for the Browse, usually admit doing so in their profile Description/AboutMe section.

For some photoshoots age is a requirement, but not all. If a specific age range is a requirement, you only need to clearly spell that out during the shoot negotiations. This way there ought to be no hard feelings on the day of the shoot.

.

With respect to your first point - I have not seen that

With respect to your second point - Should a photographer have to verify every stat listed by a model on her bio page ?

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Well, considering how many models listed their age as 99, 10 years ago here, younger is about the only way to go.....

I can remember years ago hearing George Burns talk about looking to date a woman his own age and having a problem since there wasn't any.  Leave it to those members on the site to solve his problem.  And who says people here aren't problem solving creatives?

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Well, it's just a guess, but I suspect that if you don't want to go to preshoot meetings, you don't engage in careful and complete discussion of  of your needs and expectations via PM either.  It's a "buyer beware" world out there and if you don't take advantage of the means at your disposal to examine the "merchandise"  before buying, then the fault is at least as much yours as the seller's, I would think.
All IMHO as always, of course.

As usual, very well said and very much on point.  It's like people who buy a car online because they're just too busy to go test drive one and then having to listen to why they hate the car so much.

I can only think of all the coffee baristas that will be looking for work soon as their businesses close because of models believing that suggests pre-shoot meetings are simple a ploy for a coffee date with them.  Maybe those models are just to smart for us, Ray, as coffee is such an exquisite way to impress a potential partner.  I know, maybe we, as photographers, can warn the baristas of the great threat we supposedly pose to the young models while we're in those coffee houses and invite them to become models.  I've seen some pretty cute baristas.

Garry k wrote:
I am noticiing that Some existing Female Models on this site appear to be getting Younger

Not me! 60 years old and damned proud of it.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
Well, considering how many models listed their age as 99, 10 years ago here, younger is about the only way to go.....

Since I've only been on MM for a few years, I always wondered how there were so many models 107-109 years-old. Now I know. Those are group to which you are referring that are now reaching maturity.

Rays Fine Art wrote:
Well, it's just a guess, but I suspect that if you don't want to go to preshoot meetings, you don't engage in careful and complete discussion of  of your needs and expectations via PM either.  It's a "buyer beware" world out there and if you don't take advantage of the means at your disposal to examine the "merchandise"  before buying, then the fault is at least as much yours as the seller's, I would think.
All IMHO as always, of course.

You incorrectly assume that I would proceeed with and pay for a shoot with a model who grossly misrepresented herself with respect to age . weight . height etc .....No - in my situation it is Seller Beware lol

Without meeting with Models first ( as most are too busy these days for such formalities - I do check them out as best as i can online ( almost every every model these days has FB and or IG )

When I shoot on my home turf - On the day of the shoot I meet with the Model first at the Dept Store Makeup Counter ( that I have used consistenlty for the past 5 years ) to get the makeup done ( before hitting the studio ) This gives me an opportunity to further assess and accept or turn down the model who has agreed to work with me . I dont recall ever turning a model down on my home turf

Problems arise when travelling to another city

A couple of years ago I visited LA for a bit . I had put up a casting call on MM for Models and recieved over 200 responses . It was a bit overwhelming and challenging to narrow the field down to 10 young women that i was interested in shooting with - and I was not able to ( of course ) meet with them before hand and I hadnt realized yet the importance of  running secondary checks ( ie IG ) to ensure that they were being honest with me about thier stats

All the shoots went well cept for one . A Model with a Stellar Portfolio here on MM arrived at our Beverly Hills Shoot Location looking 10 years older and 20 lbs heavier than what whe presented in her port . I immediatly explained to her that the shoot wouldnt work out and why ....She protested a bit but what could she really do ?

So last summer i returned to LA and put up another MM casting call .... Again a great response including the same Model that I had turned down in Beverly Hills . And she had not changed her Bio or Port in anyway

Playing a Game was She

( and I had a similar problem arise with another model on a trip to Seattle once )

Garry k wrote:
With respect to your second point - Should a photographer have to verify every stat listed by a model on her bio page ?

Making a mountain out of a molehill. One sentence - "Does your portfolio and listed stats accurately reflect your current look?"

They will either (truthfully) say yes, fess up to some differences and you can then discuss further and make a decision to go forward or not, or they lie, in which case they have no complaint if you send them home.

LONDON Photo Art wrote:
Yes, they want to keep themselves in searches.

I did shoot with one model who was 31 but listed her age as 29, but then in her port mentioned her real age, and the reason for the bio listing of 29 was that she 'looked' 29 (pretty much). I felt that was fair and shot with her.

I saw another though jump from 37 to 27... then back to 37....

I've also shot with several who, the first words out of their mouth when they showed up to the shoot were "So I recently gained 20 lbs..." So age isn't the only thing that can be mis-represented by the photos in one's port.

You don't need a pre-shoot meeting. Just ask for current digitals before agreeing to book them for a shoot. End of story.

Then there are the models who claim to be 5'9 ( but forget to mention that is while wearing 3 inch heels )

Ive learned how to generally guage a models height from their photos - so that is not much of a problem for me any more

Rays Fine Art wrote:
And on a different note,  Ageism is another of the realities in the world in which we all exist, and it goes both ways.  From the 18 to 22 year old model who considers any photographer over 45 to be a "dirty old man" just waiting for them to fall into his trap to the photographer of any age that won't consider any model  over 25, it's real and a factor we have to deal with.


Thank you, thank you, Ray!

Figures Jen B wrote:
I suspect the deception is to keep themselves in the searches.

I think it would be an absolute must to admit this before shooting.
Nothing else makes sense.

When I set up a search, I rarely designate an age range, or if I do, it's usually something like over 30 or over 40, mainly because I'm not especially interested in the 20-something gang for my purposes. What amazes me, however, is the large number of responses I get of ages purposefully overstated--way overstated--such as "105," or "99+"  Then you check the port, and you find a fairly standard 20-35-age model. Are these models purposefully removing their results from searches that specify an age range? If so why? Curious

Rob Photosby wrote:
I have no problem whatsoever with a model posting whatever age she can reasonably pass for.

But by whose reason?

I've run into some models who were completely delusional about what age they look. Others get there through extensive makeup and/or Photoshopping. I've worked with some women who looked pretty good when in full makeup and pretty goddamned scary when they weren't.

It's good to know the truth so as to be properly prepared. Will this model require a team of MUAs? Will she need more Photoshop wizardry than I'm willing to provide?

Orca Bay Images wrote:

But by whose reason?

I've run into some models who were completely delusional about what age they look. Others get there through extensive makeup and/or Photoshopping. I've worked with some women who looked pretty good when in full makeup and pretty goddamned scary when they weren't.

It's good to know the truth so as to be properly prepared. Will this model require a team of MUAs? Will she need more Photoshop wizardry than I'm willing to provide?

indeed

MatureModelMM wrote:
I have always stated my exact age and been willing to provide recent snapshots to verify exactly how I look at any given time.  I don't see any benefit to a model stating an incorrect age when it's obvious by looking at her work that she isn't that age at all. I do see some models who have the same issue as non-models about reaching certain milestone ages and not being able to handle that well, but they just need to get past that.

I have been told repeatedly all my adult life that I don't look my age. Until recently when I had to reduce my level of physical activity resulting in a few changes in my body, I was frequently told that I could easily pass for someone as much as 20 years younger. But I would never have claimed to be any younger than I really was.

On behalf of Photographers everywhere - We appreciate your Honesty

Garry k wrote:
I wonder if MM has a Position on this matter ?

I guess not

danmouer wrote:
When I set up a search, I rarely designate an age range, or if I do, it's usually something like over 30 or over 40, mainly because I'm not especially interested in the 20-something gang for my purposes. What amazes me, however, is the large number of responses I get of ages purposefully overstated--way overstated--such as "105," or "99+"  Then you check the port, and you find a fairly standard 20-35-age model. Are these models purposefully removing their results from searches that specify an age range? If so why? Curious

Yes. They get tired of being asked to shoot nudes when their profile says they don't, or getting requests to do sexual acts or shoots. So they put a high age to stop incoming messages.... Instead they respond to the castings they are interested in.

LONDON Photo Art wrote:

Yes. They get tired of being asked to shoot nudes when their profile says they don't, or getting requests to do sexual acts or shoots. So they put a high age to stop incoming messages.... Instead they respond to the castings they are interested in.

The Only Models  overstating thier ages on MM that I have met were two 15 yr olds who stated they were 16 to join this site ( nearly a decade ago )

Coincidently they both went on to sign with NEXT ( and they did not know each other )

Garry k wrote:
I am noticiing that Some existing Female Models on this site appear to be getting Younger

This Phenomenum appears to occur when a Model hits 28 or 29 and then they start subracting years from thier age . ( ie 34 year old Models claiming they are now 24 )

Sometimes it is obvious ie if say they have been members of MM for the past decade ( and their membership start date is listed on their bio ) but sometimes it is not so obvious

I have also seen Models who post ( more than 5 yr old ) photos in an attempt to portray that is how they look currently

This may not be a problem for some Photographers but it is for Me - As I expect to shoot with what is represented in a Models portfolio

And since I am not one for preshoot meetings ( edit ) having found that most models are far to busy for them

More than 1 Model has been disappointed when they have shown up for a shoot and I have turned them down at that point for not being what they stated in their bio or iwhat they have represented in their portfolio

Just me, but I could care less about the age of the model. The image they can portray is far more important to me.

Gold Rush Studio wrote:
Just me, but I could care less about the age of the model. The image they can portray is far more important to me.

and what if the images that they are displaying are 10 years old ?