Model
DawnElizabeth
Posts: 3907
Madison, Mississippi, US
I didn't start a portfolio here so that I can call myself a llama. Nope. I wanted to call myself an auto mechanic. But somehow that backfired. So, I'm going for Special Forces Medic.
Photographer
D Allen Photography
Posts: 241
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Lightwave Photography wrote:
A Wannabe llama is someone who doesn't really try to do llamaing as a professional or even a hobby.
Wannabe llama or BWC(Bimbo With Cellphone) Syndrome has escalated in the 21st Century.
Wannabe llama disease: A person who pretends to be a llama for the ego gratification, attention, wish fulfillment and to try to make friends jealous but just ends up being rather pathetic and sad.
This disease tends to be most prevalent among people with little or no accomplishments, talent, education, character and work ethic(aka losers), who look slightly better than Quasimodo but their friends at the Mall told them they are llama types.
Symptoms:
1-Chronic NO SHOW for appts
2-No llamaing skills or attempt to learn how to do expressions and poses.
3-Complains constantly about things like photographers' not reading that she only accepts paid assignments. Why are her cellphone pics by her friend who is an official Walmart photographer not getting her any work.
4-Refuses to ever pay a professional photographer for photos or buy a few books on llamaing, take some classes in dance and acting because her friend at the mall(who decided college is a bad investment) told her paying for anything is a scam.
5-Posts the same 5 cellphone pics on multiple websites and waits to be discovered, rich and famous in a few months.
6-Prone to play lotto, MLM, assorted get-rich-quick without really trying schemes.
7-Enjoys getting drunk regularly, bad cigarette habit to stay thin, goes clubbing nightly and wonders why she has no money to buy a running car to get to paying llamaing jobs.
8-Pathologically lazy.
Successful llama:
Opposite of Wannabe llama. Way to go! I am so glad to see that there is someone else out there other than me who has the courage and integrity to call it like it is. Amen to that !!
Photographer
Lotus Photography
Posts: 19253
Berkeley, California, US
actually, if you are ever unemployed and you are asked about those embarassing gaps in your work history it's better to say,
i working as a carpenter, it was non-union and under the table..
than
i was living in my mom's basement looking at porn on the internet 18 hours a day..
somewhere in between you can say
i do a little llamaing on the side
i do a little photography on the side
or
i was doing a little photography on the side and it took off for a couple of years, but it's slowed down lately and i figure heck, i got to follow a dream for a while, but now i am looking for something more substancial..
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
If I diagnose a case of BWC before meeting an "internet llama" I apply the following treatment:
NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT
This is an effective method for quarantining BWCs to the outer reaches of cyberspace where they cant do too much harm(as BWCs reveal their true selves if asked to make any commitment to anything).
It also gives aspiring llamas who are susceptible to BWC Syndrome an opportunity to cure themselves and start getting serious about their hobby or professional aspirations.
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
Lightwave Photography wrote:
If I diagnose a case of BWC before meeting an "internet llama" I apply the following treatment:
NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT
This is an effective method for quarantining BWCs to the outer reaches of cyberspace where they cant do too much harm(as BWCs reveal their true selves if asked to make any commitment to anything).
It also gives aspiring llamas who are susceptible to BWC Syndrome an opportunity to cure themselves and start getting serious about their hobby or professional aspirations. See I dont like the idea of being asked for money before I do anything at all.
It doesnt sit right with me, in the same lines of the internet agencies who ask for a fair sized "joining fee" just to be listed.
Now I am MORE than happy to sign an agreement saying that if I dont turn up on the day that I have to pay studio and other costs however.
Model
Anna Keith
Posts: 201
San Antonio, Texas, US
Lightwave Photography wrote:
I recommend paying a professional to get good photos rather than embarrassing yourself with webcam pics. I think my headshot (which I use as my avatar) is the strongest thing in my portfolio right now... I paid for a MUA, photographer, prints and bought the copyright. It cost me a pretty penny, but I think it really helps my portfolio, which means that I am more likely to get work with GOOD photographers in the future.
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Sirensong wrote:
See I dont like the idea of being asked for money before I do anything at all.
It doesnt sit right with me, in the same lines of the internet agencies who ask for a fair sized "joining fee" just to be listed.
Now I am MORE than happy to sign an agreement saying that if I dont turn up on the day that I have to pay studio and other costs however. The problem with that is statistically internet llamas have a NO SHOW rate of over 30%. So of those 30% that sign an agreement how many would actually abide by the agreement and pay for the cost of them being NO SHOWS. If they NO SHOW they are more than likely, close to 100%, will not abide by any agreement they make.
Actually I usually don't ask for a deposit, especially in the case of name llamas with experience I dont ask for it because chances are they are reliable.
When I am testing newer llamas I will just set aside a few days and book most of them on those couple days(double and triple booking sometimes)so I know I will get some show ups. Unfortunately, the sincere llamas are made to wait for the flakey NO SHOWS which is why I try to weed them out sometimes with deposits because it is really also not fair to the llamas that show up on time and take it seriously and have to wait with me for the flakes.
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Anna Jo wrote:
I think my headshot (which I use as my avatar) is the strongest thing in my portfolio right now... I paid for a MUA, photographer, prints and bought the copyright. It cost me a pretty penny, but I think it really helps my portfolio, which means that I am more likely to get work with GOOD photographers in the future. Anna Jo has PMM-Professional llama Mentality.
PMM frequently leads to SMMB-Successful llama Making Bucks-always a good thing.
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12117
Tampa, Florida, US
Brittney Denea wrote:
I've seen a few photogs that haven't changed or added any pictures, too. Yes, but a person that takes photos by definition is a photographer (we're not talking talent level). However, every person that has their photo taken is not necessarily a llama.
It does seem more prevalent for an attractive female to post myspace photos and call themselves a llama than it does for a person purchasing a P
Photographer
Fotografia-di-Asia
Posts: 6118
Park City, Utah, US
Anna Jo wrote:
I think my headshot (which I use as my avatar) is the strongest thing in my portfolio right now... I paid for a MUA, photographer, prints and bought the copyright. It cost me a pretty penny, but I think it really helps my portfolio, which means that I am more likely to get work with GOOD photographers in the future. Does this mean that if the photos from this Sunday's shoot turn out better than your avatar I can charge you a pretty penny? 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
There are various things going on here. In many cases photographers are
asking models to shoot their ideals for free. Your work may be good it may
be cool but its your work and mostly has value to you. Second many of the
models here have no concept of the work this takes. They think that all they
need to do is put a few photos up on a profile and the paid work will come their
way. After all all their friends have told them they look like a model and don't
all models make big bucks. They quite often do get offers but mostly nude
or TFP so they get bored and move on.
What photographers are looking for are models with a passion for shooting.
Those rare and wonderful models who love photography and want to create
art. There was a recent thread where a model complained a bit about not
being able to get going. She said she has wanted to model since she was 15
and is 18 now. She had no pro level images and I asked why not. The thing
is people do whats important to them.
Most of the models on MM aren't that interested in shooting unless it means
they will make some money. To get people interested in you it helps to have
good photos. Thats means you need to shoot but it also requires a
certain passion for all this. Sadly those models are in short supply.
Photographer
Fotografia-di-Asia
Posts: 6118
Park City, Utah, US
Lightwave Photography wrote:
A Wannabe Model is someone who doesn't really try to do modeling as a professional or even a hobby.
Wannabe Model or BWC(Bimbo With Cellphone) Syndrome has escalated in the 21st Century.
Wannabe model disease: A person who pretends to be a model for the ego gratification, attention, wish fulfillment and to try to make friends jealous but just ends up being rather pathetic and sad.
This disease tends to be most prevalent among people with little or no accomplishments, talent, education, character and work ethic(aka losers), who look slightly better than Quasimodo but their friends at the Mall told them they are model types.
Symptoms:
1-Chronic NO SHOW for appts
2-No modeling skills or attempt to learn how to do expressions and poses.
3-Complains constantly about things like photographers' not reading that she only accepts paid assignments. Why are her cellphone pics by her friend who is an official Walmart photographer not getting her any work.
4-Refuses to ever pay a professional photographer for photos or buy a few books on modeling, take some classes in dance and acting because her friend at the mall(who decided college is a bad investment) told her paying for anything is a scam.
5-Posts the same 5 cellphone pics on multiple websites and waits to be discovered, rich and famous in a few months.
6-Prone to play lotto, MLM, assorted get-rich-quick without really trying schemes.
7-Enjoys getting drunk regularly, bad cigarette habit to stay thin, goes clubbing nightly and wonders why she has no money to buy a running car to get to paying modeling jobs.
8-Pathologically lazy.
Successful Model:
Opposite of Wannabe Model. LMAO.
The sad thing is, I got strucked by one of these BWC's this past week. I booked 2 girls for the Earthrace event and sure enough, one of them didn't show up. Had I read this firrst, I would never had contacted her for the assignment. . .
She just missed a chance of being published in an online magazing and potentially a national calendar. . . How sad. 
Photographer
Tog
Posts: 55204
Birmingham, Alabama, US
Considering 90% of us AREN'T REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS..
Flakes seems a VERY small price to pay for the chance to hone skills and have anyone to produce anything with at all..
Some models are here to get pictures.
Some are here to get paid.
Some are here because it fluffs their egos.
Thanks to all of them.. Without you, I'd have no damned portfolio..
Model
DawnElizabeth
Posts: 3907
Madison, Mississippi, US
W.G. Rowland wrote:
Considering 90% of us AREN'T REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS..
Flakes seems a VERY small price to pay for the chance to hone skills and have anyone to produce anything with at all..
Some models are here to get pictures.
Some are here to get paid.
Some are here because it fluffs their egos.
Thanks to all of them.. Without you, I'd have no damned portfolio.. And yet, I am not in it. The Special Forces Medic wannabe former mechanic.....damn.
Model
Anna Keith
Posts: 201
San Antonio, Texas, US
Leo Chan wrote:
Does this mean that if the photos from this Sunday's shoot turn out better than your avatar I can charge you a pretty penny? *slowly backs away from Leo*
Let's just say I would consider paying in the future if you wow me with your ninja-like photography skills. 
Photographer
Fotografia-di-Asia
Posts: 6118
Park City, Utah, US
Anna Jo wrote:
*slowly backs away from Leo*
Let's just say I would consider paying in the future if you wow me with your ninja-like photography skills. Awwww, keep saying things like this is going to get you a lot more free shoots. 
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Leo Chan wrote:
LMAO.
The sad thing is, I got strucked by one of these BWC's this past week. I booked 2 girls for the Earthrace event and sure enough, one of them didn't show up. Had I read this firrst, I would never had contacted her for the assignment. . .
She just missed a chance of being published in an online magazing and potentially a national calendar. . . How sad. Which BWC symptoms did she exhibit?
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
Lightwave Photography wrote:
If I diagnose a case of BWC before meeting an "internet model" I apply the following treatment:
NON REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT This would probably eliminate about 90% of the models, serious and otherwise. And what guarantee is there that dishonest photographers won't take the deposit and run? It only takes one bad apple...
Photographer
Rp-photo
Posts: 42711
Houston, Texas, US
Image K wrote:
There is only one problem: I'm 42 yrs old and I'm 5' 10", and I'm overweight.
Does that mean that I should "cry foul" that life isn't fair? Be grateful that you fit the typical photographer profile to a "T"!
Photographer
Jack Blake
Posts: 162
Mission Viejo, California, US
This was an interesting post..
Just to play devil's advocate here.. I've not been in this side of the industry long enough to really have a valid opinion on models not really being models.. I will say, that in my limited experience with "modeling" that it's an incredibly different experience working with someone that knows how to act in front of a lens from one that constantly needs my coaching on what to do and how to move. What a joy that is!!
BUT.. On the other side, I have been a pro photog for quite a few years.. And what I've seen from my end is endless "professional photographers" that get a camera in their hands, call themselves "pros" and start snapping away just so as to get some pretty faces and bodies to take pics of. If they can get the chicks clothes off, all the better. I see it ALL the time.
So, I'm thinking this topic works both ways pretty easily. Models that aren't really models, and photogs that might as well go out and buy themselves a couple of disposables for the quality they're achieving. AND many of them don't seem to want to better themselves much either.
I've been shooting as a hobbyist for 35 yrs, and as a pro for 25.. If I've learned anything over the years, it's that I always have more to learn.
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
rp_photo wrote:
This would probably eliminate about 90% of the models, serious and otherwise. And what guarantee is there that dishonest photographers won't take the deposit and run? It only takes one bad apple... It eliminates about 90% of BWC models which is a good thing. As I said(apparently you missed it) good photographers only get deposits when absolutely necessary and not from newbies that seem reliable.
As far as the photographer not intending on doing a session and keeping a deposit; the model should apply the same BWC criteria to screen out GWCs(e.g. amateurs with alot of cheesy, tacky nude pics) who ask for deposits and are not pros.
Frankly, the truth is there are alot more wannabe models that NO SHOW than there are photographers or GWCs just after deposits and it is easy to screen out people who are not legit photographers for any aspiring model such as check references, photographer's photos etc.
Photographer
Fotografia-di-Asia
Posts: 6118
Park City, Utah, US
Lightwave Photography wrote:
Which BWC symptoms did she exhibit? Dunno. But she has about 80% no show probability according to your other thread. You should have post that sooner.
Photographer
Lightwave Photography
Posts: 585
Honolulu, Hawaii, US
Another important thing is if a photographer is telling the model he/she charges and not baiting with the TFCD that is generally a good sign of being legit.
Alot of new models think they are getting a good deal with free TFCDs but the fact is when they go to these TFCD sessions by supposed "hobbyiests" these so called amateur photogs will have the model sign a release that says in small print the photographers make all the money on selling the model's photos in exchange for her possibly getting the free photos(frequently she never gets them).
Then when she goes to the TFCD session the photog tries to get her to pose nude, take some clothes off so he has a chance of easily selling her pics at a good profit with the model getting nothing.
A professional charges but will take the kind of photos the model wants and if he/she sells the model's photos she will get money out of the sales.
So the whole TFCD thing by socalled "hobbyiest" photographers is probably the biggest scam going around.
The reality is real professional photographers rarely do TFCDs.
Professional photographers pay models when they use them for their own paid projects, a client is paying both model and photographer and for stock photography.
Professional photographers charge new models for portfolios, established models for portfolio updates and especially if they never worked with them before so they can determine if they are good for future paid assignments.
And models should keep in mind that when they are paying to see a professional and he/she thinks the model has potential they will be on their list for future paid assignments-amateurs rarely get paid assignments.
If an aspiring model doesn't want to pay a good photographer to get started and wants to hustle for TFCDs she should expect sleazeballs to try to get her to pose nude, sell her nude photos with no profit to her and not honor their promise of the free photos on cd.
The old adage you get what you pay for rings true.
Model
Darkdesire
Posts: 588
Tucson, Arizona, US
Innamorata wrote:
I take it personally because I'm worried that people might think I'm a wannabe model. Well I am, but I do really want to be a model. I want to have shoots, but I generally just get disturbing offers for shoots off people I don't trust. I'm not about to put my safety at risk, or be happy with some rubbish pictures taken of me, just so I can say that I've done a shoot and have new pictures. I'm holding out for a good shoot and a photographer that I trust. First off I can understand that...but! IF you really want excellent pics pay a photographer to help you get started!! The ebst photographers are the ones who charge a lot of the time..
Model
Darkdesire
Posts: 588
Tucson, Arizona, US
Innamorata wrote:
Read this post.....
I have webcam pics on some of my profiles, and I have had the same pics for over 6 months or similar ones. I did read the post didn't you?? I'm sorry but you say you want to model...but can't find a photographer to trust and you ahve had cam pics up for six months that rediculious to me...I shoot models as well...and when I first shot them they had no port...but it only took them 3 months to get there cam pics off and have 5 shoots atleast!! Trust is built with a photographer over time...From where I first shoot the trust gets stronger...
Photographer
Perc Powell Studios
Posts: 736
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US
I agree.. this site should adopt a policy of canceling profiles that don't update regularly.. Only problem of course is -how much time and who monitors-
Should not only apply to models but GWC's, Photographers, and MUA/Stylists as well..
Model
Darkdesire
Posts: 588
Tucson, Arizona, US
perc powell photographs wrote:
I agree.. this site should adopt a policy of canceling profiles that don't update regularly.. Only problem of course is -how much time and who monitors-
Should not only apply to models but GWC's, Photographers, and MUA/Stylists as well.. I finally someone who thinks the same as I do!!!!!
Model
Darkdesire
Posts: 588
Tucson, Arizona, US
perc powell photographs wrote:
I agree.. this site should adopt a policy of canceling profiles that don't update regularly.. Only problem of course is -how much time and who monitors-
Should not only apply to models but GWC's, Photographers, and MUA/Stylists as well.. finally someone who thinks the same as I do!!!!!
Photographer
BlackWatch
Posts: 3825
Cleveland, Ohio, US
W.G. Rowland wrote:
Considering 90% of us AREN'T REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS..
Flakes seems a VERY small price to pay for the chance to hone skills and have anyone to produce anything with at all..
Some models are here to get pictures.
Some are here to get paid.
Some are here because it fluffs their egos.
Thanks to all of them.. Without you, I'd have no damned portfolio.. Amen brother!
Photographer
BlackWatch
Posts: 3825
Cleveland, Ohio, US
perc powell photographs wrote:
I agree.. this site should adopt a policy of canceling profiles that don't update regularly.. Only problem of course is -how much time and who monitors-
Should not only apply to models but GWC's, Photographers, and MUA/Stylists as well.. Amen to that as well!
That might increase the amount of people that actually answer back when you send a message as well...
Model
_kate
Posts: 1508
New York, New York, US
Innamorata wrote:
I have webcam pics on some of my profiles, and I have had the same pics for over 6 months or similar ones. well then it's time you expanded your search...try a bigger region. people aren't just going to fall into your lap.
Model
Angela_M
Posts: 558
Chicago, Illinois, US
What about all the model's that always say it's always been their dream?
Model
CrazyRussianHelicopter
Posts: 3256
Madison, Alabama, US
Angela Crystal McAdrian wrote:
What about all the model's that always say it's always been their dream? I think it depends if they like to say that they are models or not.
Model
Angela_M
Posts: 558
Chicago, Illinois, US
Model
Mia Mali
Posts: 1638
Los Angeles, California, US
I don't like calling myself a "model." I model, but I don't want the attention it brings when people ask you if you are a model. I can see it running through their minds...."She's a model?!"
Then BWCs get all jealous and start talking shit. See the about quote.
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
W.G. Rowland wrote:
Considering 90% of us AREN'T REAL PHOTOGRAPHERS..
Flakes seems a VERY small price to pay for the chance to hone skills and have anyone to produce anything with at all..
Some models are here to get pictures.
Some are here to get paid.
Some are here because it fluffs their egos.
Thanks to all of them.. Without you, I'd have no damned portfolio.. A great post, and should be required reading for any MM member!
Photographer
Rik Austin
Posts: 12165
Austin, Texas, US
Image K wrote:
A great post, and should be required reading for any MM member! Exactly.
Photographer
La Seine by the Hudson
Posts: 8587
New York, New York, US
They will be with us as long as the internet/myspace/ANTM and such are around. Pretty much end of story.
Just as photographers who just like to say they're photographers will be with us as long as they have access to digital technology that makes them feel like they can learn to produce "pro" level work without what feels like much effort, and they have the internet and related venues to publish it on. Also pretty much end of story.
Photographer
The Don Mon
Posts: 3315
Ocala, Florida, US
cause their my space isnt giving them enough attention ... ? ... lol
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