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Models, your thoughts please.
Post hidden on Apr 21, 2014 06:58 am
Reason: not helpful Comments: Please feel free to repost in the site related forum. Apr 20 14 08:03 pm Link
Post hidden on Apr 21, 2014 07:01 am
Reason: off-topic Comments: off - topic Apr 20 14 09:47 pm Link In my time modeling, I have gotten as much helpful information about modeling from models as I have from photographers. But I have gotten way more unhelpful, rude, and otherwise un-needed "information" from photographers. I have had models disagree with me, I'm sure, and I know we don't all have the same experiences because we all live in different markets, shoot different things, and have different goals. But generally, I've not really had issues from other models. Part of me would like to see what would happen if others were excluded from the model discussions. But another part of me feels we would lose the valuable input of at least a few non-model members. I guess the real question is if that valuable input is actual valuable enough to deal with all of the other not-so-valuable input. I think most people would say no. I think what will happen if we use the option where others can view the model forum, but not post, will be a lot of PMed "advice." I think this might be better than the current set up because at least that way their won't be all of the arguments. The downside is that the model receiving this advice won't have the benefit of having others see that advice and warn them if it is wrong or not quite right for them. Something about having the forum shut off completely to everyone who is not a model doesn't seem right to me, but I can't really put into words why I feel that way. I guess I feel like the Model forum should be a generally "nice" place. As a model, I want to be able to come here and ask questions and get helpful, mostly positive responses. Obviously, if I'm way off base I'm going to expect a little correction, but I shouldn't have to worry that every post I make is going to turn into an argument. I am coming here for guidance. If I want a broader industry viewpoint, I'll go to General Industry. And when I go there I tend to expect less positivity and a little more variance in the opinions. For example, if I want to know about preventing razor bumps, or finding wardrobe, or how other models handle their period and model, etc. I should be able to come into the Model forum and ask those questions and there is no reason any of those topics should contain any arguing at all. If I want to know about expanding my genres to include more glamour, for example, I might choose the model forum because I want to hear mostly from models who have done what I want to do. And I'd be okay if a photographer or two chimed in with some tips as well. What I do not need is: "Why would you want to do that? You're a great art model!" or "You need to update your portfolio before you even think about that!" or "You need to read www.newmodels.com." What I DO need are things like "Oh, yeah, I remember when I did that. A couple of the most important things I learned are..." or "I totally suggest making sure you can do some basic glamour makeup since an MUA might not always be available. Here are a couple links that might help..." or "Here is a list that shows a ton of good glamour poses that might help you get started..." I also think that unless someone is giving real and blatant misinformation, people need to agree to disagree. And if you see someone giving horrible misinformation, CAM it, don't have a debate about it. Things like that ruin the OP and definitely discourage the poster. I remember when that happened to my thread when I was first asking about getting into nude modeling. The thread turned into a huge argument between some other model and a few other people and I got very little out of it. In fact, had I gone on that thread alone, I probably would have given up on the idea all together. The PMs I got were far more helpful. I'm happy to see all of this input, because I think I'm seeing a lot of similar responses. Hopefully by working together we can get this forum back on track ^_^ Apr 21 14 07:50 am Link I really like the fourth idea thrown out. This gives each individual an option to choose their audience. Some topics really are just irrelevant to non-models. Apr 21 14 08:41 am Link It is apparent that perhaps the only feasible option is to have a sub-forum for each category. So models get a private forum that is activated when you join and existing members to opt into in a sort of privacy setting. And there would be the same for Photographers etc. Changing the existing MC will not change anything. The suggestion of tougher moderation needs to be addressed also in the Main Forums. There is so much one sided consistent Bullying targeted towards Models and nothing done about it. It also applies to models who bully as well. And there are a few, who will attack other models' Genre as inferior to theirs. I am recently coming up with this personally and I ignore the comments, but it may be helpful to have people who you could talk to to highlight a potential problem. Sorting things out by trying to reason on a thread does not bring any joy. It can turn people against you especially when the culprit has supporters. Apr 21 14 09:34 am Link I like option 1 or the option of having a private sub-forum. Apr 21 14 11:26 am Link Option four makes the most sense. I want to read this whole thread, but there isn't enough popcorn in the world. Apr 21 14 12:49 pm Link Alabaster Crowley wrote: With you on that one for sure! Apr 21 14 12:53 pm Link Some people are just positively desperate to get their opinion in on a thread that specifically asks them to shut up. It's hard believing not all opinions are valuable and everyone won't get a trophy I guess. Apr 21 14 01:10 pm Link Alabaster Crowley wrote: +1 Apr 21 14 01:12 pm Link
Post hidden on Apr 21, 2014 01:19 pm
Reason: not helpful Comments: Wrong forum? Apr 21 14 01:18 pm Link I think option 4 is brilliant The amount of photogs who felt the urge to post in a MODELS ONLY thread is proof It's no about exclusion/punishment Some days the photogs should shut the hell up, I'd like to talk/interact with my fellow model peeps ONLY There's always whinying/bullying/personal attacts going on in this forum Almost always by photogs Goodness the thought of models having private discussions/talking is so terrifying? If we want to have everyone weigh in, we'll post it in a certain fashion. If not, fuck off Pretty easy I think  The only downside: However will I live without the mental sparring, Rage, and insults I've received from photogs, whose opinion I didn't ask for. Sidenote - The thought of photogs making fake model accounts just to peek inside is amusing. Apr 21 14 02:45 pm Link I vote, #4 the code in option. Edit: However, if that's too hard to implement I would vote #2 Apr 21 14 02:51 pm Link There are quite a few retired models that are now photographers, or under non-model profiles. I think a lot of knowledge they have still applies, and do appreciate when they chime in. However, the amount of photographers that feel entitled to posting "anything pertaining to models" (I.e. "shave, damn it!" "list your measurements!" "don't get tattoos!" etc etc...) greatly outweighs them. I noticed a lot of threads that were either locked or moved to off topic recently, which is a good start. Maybe making it really clear that the model colloquy is NOT a place to dump on "anything pertaining to models" is needed, because those photographers who do so do have a point that this forum isn't well defined or moderated. Also, if there is a thread about something regarding agency modeling or anything I have no knowledge in, I don't post. (I will read, though.) some photographers, artists, etc may be able to provide better input on a topic than a model of a different genre, but again that's why I like the idea of leaving the option of controlling who replies up to the poster. (and really cracking down on those that comment just to comment, give misinformation, etc) Apr 21 14 03:43 pm Link The concept of a revision is worth looking at. I have to admit to not using the Model forum often as model specific topics do sometimes go way off. Would Choose #2, #4 does have merit too. Apr 21 14 03:57 pm Link I must say, it's very refreshing to read a thread for models that only models have responded to! Amazing! Also the sheer volume of photographers posting when clearly their opinion wasn't sought - proof that this conversation is necessary. To the OP, thanks for starting this dialogue and thanks to everyone else for participating. Apr 21 14 11:11 pm Link I choose option #3 . I think that all the categories (models, photographers, retoucher MUAs) are part of the same industry and I think that the forums should be used to interact and exchange ideas and advices. I want to feel free to participate in a “photography talk” forum thread and I think that a photographer should be allowed to give his/her advices in the model forum. I think that the input from a photographer (or a retoucher, a MUA etc) can be absolutely valuable. Apr 22 14 12:21 am Link Thanks everyone for your responses so far, your feedback is both appreciated and useful. For those of you that know other models here on MM, could you please consider pointing them in the direction of this thread, as the more opinions we can gather from them, the better. Apr 22 14 01:49 am Link Eliza C new portfolio wrote: LOL. Man, can I just say I'm enjoying the gentle murmur of this thread? It's as if someone lowered the volume by 75%. I could get used to it. MelissaAnn wrote: +1 Apr 22 14 02:39 am Link I would just like to thank Phil for starting this thread. I apologise for making jokes because I could not quite believe it. But for just one thread , I think it important that models are heard. I think if you could see what goes on in back chat between models and on FB etc you would know models are at a low ebb and confidence in this forum and MM in general because of personal attack, general attacks on the calibre of MM models, and the fact threads about modelling are hijacked by photographers who are often ignorant of the many genres of modelling yet speak with authority. Some of the alt models in particular are particularly offended by the anti ink threads for example. I would like to reaffirm my position that I'd like extra model moderators appointed whose role it is to exclusively police this forum. I would not like photographers blocked altogether. But please do NOT have a go at Phil and Blue because its just this ONE thread where we need to express what we think atm. Apr 22 14 07:57 am Link 4 seems best! Apr 22 14 03:07 pm Link #1 - models only seems less confusing Apr 22 14 04:27 pm Link I use another forum (non-modelling related) and they have sub forums in each category that are only visible to registered members. I would suggest keeping the current forum and adding a sub forum that is only visible to registered models on this site. That way a model can decide if she wants input from all members or only models. In my experience on another modelling site where the model forum is only accessible to models, I've found it quite beneficial. There are some sensitive matters that we don't want the whole world to read about, let alone certain photographers. Apr 23 14 02:38 am Link MelissaAnn wrote: This is what I'd like to see. Ours is a culture of respect and tolerance. Please, no hate, drama or SHOUTING here. That rule should either be removed, or mods should start brigging those members that are regularly disrespectful... This is not the right place to antagonize, provoke, inflame, or cause controversy. And yet I see people post things CLEARLY intended to antagonize and/or provoke on a regular basis. Apr 23 14 10:55 am Link Hi, I won't be leaving as a forum guide but if the exclusionary model forum were to happen in secrecy I will not likely ever visit it. Jen p.s. Apr 23 14 10:56 am Link Posted this in the Site Related thread (although a model/tog said I wasn't welcomed there) I'm on other forums (more adult related) where women/models have an INFO SHARE forum that others cannot see at all. Men/non-models have their own forum as well that only they can see. At lease MM is trying to give people a chance to at least LOOK at the threads. We should either have a private sub forum or option #4. Either way, someone will be pissy about it. Can't please everyone, but we could at least see how things go for a while. Apr 23 14 07:49 pm Link - Phil H - wrote: Glad I am not the only one who has noticed this. Apr 24 14 01:54 am Link Great idea! Apr 24 14 12:56 pm Link option 4 Apr 25 14 08:15 am Link Why can't it be a combination of the options? Just add a "visibility" button to the post, like on the social networks, where you can choose "Public, (profile genre) only, etc" like a check box of which profile types can see the post, and then above the thread once posted, a little note "This post can only be seen by _____". I'd imagine that would be easier (maybe not coding wise, but from a mod/management standpoint), and then you wouldn't have to worry about the total segregation or the oncoming onslaught of fake profiles being made by the insecure to know what's being said without them. Add this to each genre's sub-forum, and shouldn't that be problem solved? Then you're not taking it on yourselves, you're leaving it to the population to decide what each poster wants, and this way MM is just offering options, and not ruffling feathers... Options able to be used by all, for all, whenever they choose. People should have the ability to decide who they want responses from... but no one should get any ability that not everyone gets. Imho of course. Apr 25 14 08:59 am Link
Post hidden on Apr 27, 2014 10:27 pm
Reason: not helpful Comments: Please feel free to post in site related. Apr 25 14 01:11 pm Link
Post hidden on Apr 27, 2014 10:28 pm
Reason: not helpful Comments: Please feel free to repost in the site related forum. Apr 25 14 02:01 pm Link I vote for option 4. I'll be honest. I do not feel comfortable posting some of my questions and opinions in Model Colloquy. A lot of the questions that I see directed at models are constantly being answered by photographers and then arguments start and the original question is never answered. Also, sometimes I feel when models disagree or stand up for their opinion, that they are ganged up on. We need an option where we can talk specifically to other models that have personal experience with what we need help with. Apr 27 14 10:11 pm Link Alabaster Crowley wrote:
Apr 30 14 11:56 pm Link Cervezax wrote: Actually, we're hoping that the new "Big Buddy" project (https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=923164) and revamping the 3rd List (https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=812235) will mitigate this part of the problem somewhat by establishing/reestablishing convenient channels for one-on-one communication. May 03 14 06:54 am Link 2 x May 03 14 07:10 am Link I personally feel that number 2 would be best case scenario. I have not been modeling long, but have noticed in some of these threads individuals from photography/ media/ makeup-hair can provide useful information. I have noticed that with everyone being able to post here the threads have become quite long, as another model stated "i would love to read it all, but there is not enough popcorn in the world". Sometimes i will stumble across a thread that i feel might be useful, but i just don't have the time nor attention span to shift through 6 or more pages of information to find the one piece of information i really needed. May 07 14 09:45 am Link Axioma wrote: I like the sound of #4, but...I would like it if the model threads were monitored more vigilantly for snarky/patronizing/unhelpful comments from photographers. This isn't to say that all photographers are rude, I really appreciate advice from the ones who are genuinely helpful and have insights that we models probably wouldn't otherwise catch onto. But a lot of photographers seem to have a "let's see who can post the snarkiest comment!" contest. Don't they realize that their professionalism doesn't only apply to shoots, but to public forums as well? And that without models, they wouldn't have anyone to practice on? May 07 14 11:38 am Link Rays Fine Art wrote: Thank you Ray. I'm going to use it. I love it, funny, simple to the point and I hope it becomes as common knowledge on the forums as the word llama! May 07 14 02:18 pm Link Hmmm . . . I am a member of some other sites where there are similar options, and on those sites there are enough open forums to allow the free exchange of ideas while maintaining some exclusivity for those groups who need a little bit of separation. So perhaps there’s some merit to that idea. Here are my thoughts: 1) Not a bad idea, as any model who wants to make a topic available for comments from everyone can post in General Industry. But that sort of runs counter to the egalitarian open forum tradition of MM. 2) Even better than Option 1 3) Sure, we’re always comfortable with what we know. - - - - - - - - - 4) I’d prefer Option 2, as this has the same effect but with more techy button-pushing. And besides, if someone really feels compelled to respond to a model’s post but is otherwise restricted that person could always PM the model. Overall, I’d say Option 2 is my favorite option. May 08 14 07:10 am Link |
