Image K wrote:
Networking with models by e-mail is very effective. A lot of negotiating can be done.
But I don't like to actually schedule a meeting or a shoot with a model before I actually talk to her on the phone .
There are several reasons for this. I can see if we have any chemistry. If we don't get along, it's going to be a long shoot.
I can learn a lot about her in a 2-3 minute conversation.

I have had several, though rare, situations where a model will e-mail,"ok, I'll call you this week", or "I'll call you tomorrow".

And the call won't happen. I usually give 2 chances. If they can't remember, for whatever reason, the second time I will not do the shoot.

I feel that if I can't trust them to remember to make a phone call, how can I trust them to remember to show up for the shoot?

Question: Do you feel comfortable scheduling and finalizing a shoot solely on the basis of e-mails?

I agree with you 110%
If a model is local they must meet with  me first before we shoot and yes they can bring a escort. It's called breaking the ice. If model is not local I do require a phone call if model refuses either we do shoot. Plain and simple

Brandy wrote:

Most of the time I can't even remember what I had for lunch an hour earlier or if I set my alarm clock. Remembering a phone call is even worse.. doesn't mean I'm going to flake... it means I have a lot on my mind. Don't group everyone who can't remember a call into a flake group... it's not fair to the true professionals.

exactly.
and don't discriminate against people with phone anxiety.
flakes are flakes regardless.
if a photographer calls me, i will answer.
if i miss the call, i'll text or e-mail saying that i missed the call and they are more than welcome to call back.

~soma~

Brandy wrote:

Most of the time I can't even remember what I had for lunch an hour earlier or if I set my alarm clock. Remembering a phone call is even worse.. doesn't mean I'm going to flake... it means I have a lot on my mind. Don't group everyone who can't remember a call into a flake group... it's not fair to the true professionals.

I'm not directing this straight at you but in general... won't "true professionals" write things down to remember, especially if they admit they have a hard time remembering things or have a lot on their mind?    Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part, shouldn't that be the standard of operation for a "true professional"?  I think so, in my opinion.

Jessalyn wrote:
most of my shoots are scheduled online via email. Phone calls happen once everything is set in stone just to talk on the phone. Because if I discuss info on the phone, i.e. shoot ideas, times, places, etc. none of it is written down and then there could be confusion later when someone says "well I thought we agreed to this". Email correspondence all the way for me. Reduces conflict later and I forget stuff over the phone.

Experimental Photoworks wrote:

Grrrr send PM instead of another phone message...

hey btw, i missed your phone call, call me back. haha.

~soma~

Soma Stardust wrote:

exactly.
and don't discriminate against people with phone anxiety.
flakes are flakes regardless.
if a photographer calls me, i will answer.
if i miss the call, i'll text or e-mail saying that i missed the call and they are more than welcome to call back.

~soma~

OMG Soma, I can get phone anxiety as well.   It's hard when  the photographer and model both have it, but it can be worked though.   And for me, I like covering a lot of ground in written communication, but it is important for me to cover some matters verbally, as hard as it might be.

David Scott wrote:
I'm not directing this straight at you but in general... won't "true professionals" write things down to remember, especially if they admit they have a hard time remembering things or have a lot on their mind?    Yes, there are exceptions, but for the most part, shouldn't that be the standard of operation for a "true professional"?  I think so, in my opinion.

I do write things down... grocery lists, bills to pay, things I need to do. Most of the time though, I don't remember to bring that with me.

As of right now, I know that I have three letters that I should have mailed last Thursday lying on my kitchen counter. Every day I look at those letters and I think to myself "I really need to go to the post office" and I'll write it down and I'll walk away without them again. To this day, they are still lying on my counter... those letters are worth about $1000.00 back in my pocket from a botched job done to my car by a mechanic. Even though there is value to those letters... I continue to forget.

Then again, I worked 95 hours on my last paycheck and I am very tired right now... I think I have reason to forget a few things.

nikki fiction wrote:
i just hate talking on the phone.period...to anybody! and i have no idea why!

i hate talking on the phone too... scheduling via email is nice cause everything is in writing, but a day before of the day of i like to call and make sure that everything is good.

marco

Brandy wrote:

I do write things down... grocery lists, bills to pay, things I need to do. Most of the time though, I don't remember to bring that with me.

As of right now, I know that I have three letters that I should have mailed last Thursday lying on my kitchen counter. Every day I look at those letters and I think to myself "I really need to go to the post office" and I'll write it down and I'll walk away without them again. To this day, they are still lying on my counter... those letters are worth about $1000.00 back in my pocket from a botched job done to my car by a mechanic.

I bet when you are really really struggling for money it'll come to mind. lol  But yeah I know what you mean about forgetting stuff like that... I realize though if it is important enough to you.. it'll automatically be a priority not just on a list but in your head as well.  You write things down, I write things down, lots of people write things down... but going back to your mention of "true professionals", they follow-through on the things they write down as things they need to do as important, which in the example of this thread is calling a photographer back   or vice versa of course with a photographer calling a model back. 

Brandy wrote:

Most of the time I can't even remember what I had for lunch an hour earlier or if I set my alarm clock. Remembering a phone call is even worse.. doesn't mean I'm going to flake... it means I have a lot on my mind. Don't group everyone who can't remember a call into a flake group... it's not fair to the true professionals.

Then I guess I will never shoot with the "true professionals".

Why should I trust someone with something important (the shoot) if they can't handle something simple (the phone call)?

If you can't remember a phone call, why should I (or anyone else) trust you to show up for the shoot?

Michael R  Kihn Studios wrote:

I agree with you 110%
If a model is local they must meet with  me first before we shoot and yes they can bring a escort. It's called breaking the ice. If model is not local I do require a phone call if model refuses either we do shoot. Plain and simple

David Scott wrote:
By the way... phone anxiety... best way to get over it is to make phone calls. 

LOL!!

Wow! What a concept.

Makes sense to me...

nikki fiction wrote:
i just hate talking on the phone.period...to anybody! and i have no idea why!

Exactly the SAME way..!!

my friends hate me for it... my boyfriend gets furious about! bahhh sorry I am not a phone girl


*I prolly only have talked to ... 3 photogs over the phone, and one text messaged me and I responded back ofcourse*

Brandy wrote:
I do write things down... grocery lists, bills to pay, things I need to do. Most of the time though, I don't remember to bring that with me.

As of right now, I know that I have three letters that I should have mailed last Thursday lying on my kitchen counter. Every day I look at those letters and I think to myself "I really need to go to the post office" and I'll write it down and I'll walk away without them again. To this day, they are still lying on my counter... those letters are worth about $1000.00 back in my pocket from a botched job done to my car by a mechanic. Even though there is value to those letters... I continue to forget.

Then again, I worked 95 hours on my last paycheck and I am very tired right now... I think I have reason to forget a few things.

You are guilty of forgetting to return phone calls, forgetting to mail letters that are important, writing grocery lists and forgetting to bring them...

But a photographer should not expect you to forget to show up for a shoot?

smo1869 wrote:

Exactly the SAME way..!!

my friends hate me for it... my boyfriend gets furious about! bahhh sorry I am not a phone girl


*I prolly only have talked to ... 3 photogs over the phone, and one text messaged me and I responded back ofcourse*

How are you going to get anywhere in this business if you can't talk on the phone?

Image K wrote:

How are you going to get anywhere in this business if you can't talk on the phone?

Didnt say I wouldnt ! Just not a phone person


And don't remark on the capabilites of someone who is not into the phone thing. Kind of actually insulting and there is no need for it

And plus how do you know what I want from the business of modeling ...

I prefer meeting with the photographers before the shoot. I have met all of my photographers at a coffee shop before the shoot except one

*Sandra

Image K wrote:

You are guilty of forgetting to return phone calls, forgetting to mail letters that are important, writing grocery lists and forgetting to bring them...

But a photographer should not expect you to forget to show up for a shoot?

I've been doing this for five years and not ONCE have I flaked or forgotten a shoot. Then again a phone call is a completely different bag of chips from a shoot... a shoot is like a job.. you just don't forget that....all of my jobs I take very, very, very seriously.

smo1869 wrote:

Didnt say I wouldnt ! Just not a phone person


And don't remark on the capabilites of someone who is not into the phone thing. Kind of actually insulting and there is no need for it

And plus how do you know what I want from the business of modeling ...

I prefer meeting with the photographers before the shoot. I have met all of my photographers at a coffee shop before the shoot except one

*Sandra

I don't see how I remarked on your capabilities. I have no idea what your capabilities are. If you were insulted, you take offense very easily.

If I wanted to insult you, there were far more effective ways to do it.

I prefer a meeting with models as well. This thread was not exclusively about "the phone call thing", as you so articulately worded it. If you read the original post, the question was Question: Do you feel comfortable scheduling and finalizing a shoot solely on the basis of e-mails? .

I never stated that it had to be a phone call . But it needed to be a form of verbal contact that was above and beyond e-mails or text messages.

Most, if not all of the photographers seemed to agree. Most of the models did as well, with the exception of Brandy (Miss Forgetful), and the model with the phobia about phone calls.

Mike Walker wrote:
I do everything by Email. Hate talking on the phone unless i know the person and even then not so much. I'm better in person. Plus as said before, everything in writting is also a plus.
Mike

I'm glad that's working for you, Mike. Your work speaks for itself.

I never stated that it had to be a phone call exclusively, though. It can be a face-to-face meeting at Starbucks.

What if she gained 25 pounds since her last photos, and you don't find that out until you meet for the shoot?

Image K wrote:

How are you going to get anywhere in this business if you can't talk on the phone?

I just thought this statement was a bit snobby ...

Maybe I am just picky how people state things online b/c I do not know if they are meaning it in a mean way...

Image K wrote:

I don't see how I remarked on your capabilities. I have no idea what your capabilities are. If you were insulted, you take offense very easily.

If I wanted to insult you, there were far more effective ways to do it.

I prefer a meeting with models as well. This thread was not exclusively about "the phone call thing", as you so articulately worded it. If you read the original post, the question was [b]Question: Do you feel comfortable scheduling and finalizing a shoot solely on the basis of e-mails? .[b]

I never stated that it had to be a phone call . But it needed to be a form of verbal contact that was above and beyond e-mails or text messages.

Most, if not all of the photographers seemed to agree. Most of the models did as well, with the exception of Brandy (Miss Forgetful), and the model with the phobia about phone calls.

But AS YOU CAN SEE from my original quote I was NOT talking to you! I was talking and agreeing with the girl I quoted!!!!!!


NEVER quoted your original text and said I HAD a problem with finalizing things over phone! GOSH!

LOL

smo1869 wrote:

But AS YOU CAN SEE from my original quote I was NOT talking to you! I was talking and agreeing with the girl I quoted!!!!!!


NEVER quoted your original text and said I HAD a problem with finalizing things over phone! GOSH!

LOL

I apologize, young lady.

You were not quoting me, and I should have seen that.

I stand corrected.

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
I started off only using email and had good success with it. Then I started get flakes. However, I've had several models that I have spoken to on the phone that ended up flaking too.

Moral of the story: a flake is a flake and it can and will happen either way. Making hard and fast rules like "I will only work with her if she calls me" isn't going to solve the problem - at least not for me.

Your point is well taken. We established a few posts ago that a flake is a flake .

But it may cut down on the percentage of flakes.

Consider this: If someone wants to break into my house, they will find a way to do it . But a dead-bolt and a security door will make it much more inconvenient, and time consuming, for a potential thief.

They may still flake, but you have a much better sense of who they are, and if they are pre-disposed to flake.

You can never abolish flakiness .

But you can use someone's poor communication skills as an indicator that they are a potential flake.

This works for me.

Image K wrote:
Question: Do you feel comfortable scheduling and finalizing a shoot solely on the basis of e-mails?

YES!!!!!!!
I *will call* just to establish the relationship. . . BUT

i've just recently had a photog who refused to use email, and then once i arrived in the town he was in, refused to pay me. So i in turn refused to shoot. If i had that email to back up his promises I maybe coulda gotten somewhere.