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does porn make you lose respect?
where does modelling taper out and porn begin? I have been following the work of a model, who seems to have been successful in making a niche for herself and whose work I have admired and looked forward to seeing new sets. Now she is starting a pay site and that magic in her poses seems to have disappeared. I am tempted to write her that she is better than that but my fanmail doesn't pay her bills. Is porn bad because it shows too much or because it takes no skill to show it? Is it fair to knock a model who makes a wis business choice to make more money for less effort? Nov 15 06 03:21 am Link I'd say good porn still takes some effort. However, even bad porn sells. Nov 15 06 03:26 am Link define what she is doing? is it full on porn? is it just playboy style on the web? Nov 15 06 03:26 am Link I won't define what she is doing now because I want your opinion on when it is porn. I am not even sure myself. I have seen some penthouse stuff that was hardcore but still looked well-shot. OTOH I have seen soft shots that were plain bad and tasteless. I think that what upsets me is that she has talent that she isn't bothering to use because she can get the money anyhow. Nov 15 06 03:30 am Link Every time an artist changes direction, there are people ready to accuse them of selling out. The first time Bob Dylan played an electric guitar at a concert, the fans hated it. It's not surprising -- we like what we like, and if you change it, we might not like it so much. On the other hand, just because somebody changes doesn't mean it's a good change. Ultimately each of us has to decide where our art takes us. The value judgements of critics, fans, and observers provide input -- sometime valuable, sometimes not. In this particular case, I think you may be being too harsh. What photographer doesn't do what it takes to pay the bills from time to time? Not everything we do is great art. Models are no different. The Manchester Studio wrote: Nov 15 06 03:33 am Link link to her site, i'll tell u if it's p0rn. Nov 15 06 03:34 am Link I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it really isn't any of your business. She is doing what she wants, so what gives you the right to tell her how to live her life? Nov 15 06 03:43 am Link Tampa Tina wrote: target hit Nov 15 06 03:47 am Link Tampa Tina wrote: Why are you going out on a limb? I agree. Nov 15 06 05:45 am Link The Manchester Studio wrote: Good porn takes a lot of skill... on the part of both model and photographer. If the quality of her work seems to have slipped maybe she is using another photographer who is just shooting in a more formulaic porn style. Bad porn, OTOH, just doesn't sell on membership sites. Nov 15 06 05:51 am Link It also depends on where you are. Nov 15 06 05:55 am Link Porn will always have a market whether it's good or bad porn. I don't down anyone for getting into it. Personally, it's not for me but that's me. I do think, however, that at some point it may limit your abilty in certain areas or cause embarressment when found out but if you can deal with it, go for it. Nov 15 06 06:42 am Link Porn is "bad" because we live in a society that makes it that way. Think about it...I know it was ingrained in my head all my life that sex is bad...we never even talked about it in my house. It's a religious thing if you ask me. God says sex is bad, so it must be, and people love to push their religion on everyone else. The fact of the matter is, porn is no better or worse than any kind of art...all can be done well and all can be done shitty...all can require the same amount of effort and um..."skill"  It's just that in our society people repress the fact that we're sexual beings. Either way though...it's really none of your business...and porn is different things to different people, so without seeing it, I don't actually even know if it's porn or just more sexual than what you're used to. Nov 15 06 07:16 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: I totally agree. Nov 15 06 07:24 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: stands and applauds... Nov 15 06 07:25 am Link Dominick-Destruction wrote: How do you determine who is "better than" anything? Nov 15 06 07:52 am Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Well, first you have to put on your gleaming white armour. then you mount your pearly steed, then you ride down from on high and pass judgement like the protector and white knight one aspires to be. Nov 15 06 07:54 am Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Simple Melissa, it's determined by those of us with superior taste. Kidding...lol...;-) Nov 15 06 07:56 am Link Susi wrote: Melissa likes porn too Nov 15 06 07:56 am Link "Taste is the enemy of art." ...Picasso. What I abhore is not porn, it's violence, blood, guts and gore. ...make love, not war. Nov 15 06 08:04 am Link I meant to put that in ' ' marks  oops. I share your sentiments... There is nothing wrong with porn or the people whos star in it. I love porn!!!! x Nov 15 06 08:13 am Link If she is ok with it, and it pays her bills or empowers her or makes her more well known, Why do you care? Are you so shallow as to think that posing for more risque pictures makes her less of a person? Nov 15 06 08:19 am Link Some people think it is wrong for women to sell their sexuality to put food on their table. These same people however tend to see nothing wrong with women selling their body to slave away for hours at ridiculous low wages in a factory or shop, or selling their minds to work as school teachers or business people or nurses. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there is no coercion involved, there is absolutely no moral difference between filming a 20 minute sex scene for a porno, and working at WalMart -- except that in the porno world you have better working conditions, better pay, and meet more interesting people. All that crap about the porno industry being exploitative and all -- mostly very old news. I've personally observed the porno world a couple of times while shooting behind the scenes stills on a video production, and my impression is that it is no different from the more traditional working world. There are good bosses and bad ones -- the porno world doesn't necessarily treat women any better or worse than any other profession. Nov 15 06 08:30 am Link bang bang photo wrote: THAT IS SPOT ON!!!!! Nov 15 06 08:41 am Link porn would make me lose respect for myself nothing to do with society - THAT clearly thinks it's great as do those who offer it to me... But i dont and i know its not going to help me develop any skills i can be proud of, or meet people whose standards inspire me If money gets tooooo tight .. i might have to reconsider, but i am lucky i have many other skills. Things i feel and think are far more worthwhile. They wont pay as much, but they keep my dignity and my growth as a certain type of respected person. Thats just a personal opinion. As a side note there are those who are repressed that look down on porn but there are also those who are not repressed but expect more from themselves and those they associate with. So yes porn is not therefore a respectable or inspiring line of work. Nov 15 06 10:23 am Link Nov 15 06 10:26 am Link Anjel Britt wrote: I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to say I don't think it makes an individual repressed if they don't want to do porn. I don't want to be a porn star simply because I prefer to have some sort of sacred thing in a relationship...something physical that is extremely meaningful, and I don't want to share it with just anyone because it will cheapen it to me (same with submission). Nov 15 06 10:33 am Link bang bang photo wrote: Some people think it is wrong for women to sell their sexuality to put food on their table. These same people however tend to see nothing wrong with women selling their body to slave away for hours at ridiculous low wages in a factory or shop, or selling their minds to work as school teachers or business people or nurses. As far as I'm concerned, as long as there is no coercion involved, there is absolutely no moral difference between filming a 20 minute sex scene for a porno, and working at WalMart -- except that in the porno world you have better working conditions, better pay, and meet more interesting people. All that crap about the porno industry being exploitative and all -- mostly very old news. I've personally observed the porno world a couple of times while shooting behind the scenes stills on a video production, and my impression is that it is no different from the more traditional working world. There are good bosses and bad ones -- the porno world doesn't necessarily treat women any better or worse than any other profession. Dominick-Destruction wrote: You took the words right out of my mouth. Nov 15 06 10:33 am Link Tampa Tina wrote: I agree with you 100% Nov 15 06 06:07 pm Link The Manchester Studio wrote: whether you've worked with her or not, you don't own the model & aren't responsible for the choices she makes. might ask yourself what motivations underlie you following her so closely ... ? Nov 15 06 06:14 pm Link The Manchester Studio wrote: To me, the definition of porn is when the photo (or video) is taken for the intent of creating something that another will "get off on", and there doesn't necessarily have to be much focus on the quality or technique gone into creating the image. An image can be erotic without being porn if it's taken with the intent to explore sexuality, etc., but the intent isn't to turn on the viewer. (it may or may not indirectly of course.) Just my opinion... Nov 15 06 06:25 pm Link There's a woman in particular who has a website that would easily be considered porn. (for those who are curious, google "Liz Vicious"..) I've often thought she'd do SO much better to quit the porn and do the fetish/goth kind of stuff as a full time model, as she's got photos on her site (ones that DON'T have "porn" content, IE, no nudity/spread legs/etc) that are incredibly sexy and artistic. In particular, one set she did with a straw cowboy hat and some creative makeup.. They are, after all these years of checking out photography online and otherwise, are in my top ten of all time favorites. That said, what people choose to do is their own buisness, not mine. Nov 15 06 06:25 pm Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: Holy shit! That was wonderful. Nov 15 06 06:50 pm Link sellin out? no way...she's just buyin in! give the girl a break! Nov 15 06 06:56 pm Link I have worked with a number of models who did porn. Some I knew at the time, some I found out later. I think they are cool. But, then, I am a porn fan, and have known a number of porn stars more than casually. Go girls. Nov 15 06 07:01 pm Link Melissa Lynnette wrote: Susi wrote: Susi has modeled for those who have shot "porn" (at least to some folks), including me. Nov 15 06 09:23 pm Link does porn make you lose respect? Yep Nov 15 06 10:51 pm Link  hmmm...yes?!?Nov 15 06 10:52 pm Link you know its those cheesey nudes that irk me, porn is so much more real than cheesey nudes, thats whats wrong with the nudie photographer, kinda spineless and self serving, whats wrong with the real deal anyway Nov 16 06 02:11 am Link I wonder what our fellow artists in Europe think.... Porn is a subject that I have given thought to. I keep telling my friends, just wait, we'll be seeing it in advertising sooner then we think. However once accepted these women we see today on MM may be overtaken by more successful models, when nudity will become more mainstream. Porn sites have been a stencil for online business for years...hell the gov't has been following them for the same reasons. And as long as men and women are watching, then a good majority of them will pay to see more and more detailed images. Years ago, when Maxim first was published, I was asked to shoot for them. At that time, my company 2wist Photo LLC, turned down the offer. My partner (female) and digital artist felt the mag was too risky and so did our rep in NYC. Yes I did agree and then it was risky...well time certainly made an offer to re-think that offer. Today given the market as it is, I think I would take the offer. I will say this. Many advertising clients sell to a general conservative market and to have more nudity in mainstream America, as Europe already does, would be difficult. However, many of those conservatives will view porn from the privacy of their home or office...and that is part of the market who is buying. I personally have shot 3 porn video box covers in my career...good money too. However, having the oppotunity to work with 3 top productions...the girls are not pretty, as they appear in images or film ( make-up artists cover everything...everything ), not fun to talk to and the language is very crass amoung everyone involved. Maybe there are a few productions out there like Andrew Blake, where there is no dialogue only images and cool music...he knows better. Basically the sets were very street and not so nice to be around. Many of the women had stories to tell and after befriending for about a year or two a famous known actress in the industry...she was the one who told me to run away...run far away...and I never gave it another thought. Now if you can get into Jim South's agency, then your good and will most likely make money, but much of it is just garbage and only for disposable use. So if a model wants to travel her career into this direction, the only thing I can hope for is that she keeps healthy and safe. Remember beauty is disposable and only as good as much as those who are buying it. Life is different and the choices we make now do make a difference much later. In a way I am glad that I did not shoot for Maxim....Have you ever seen that mag to show anything different other than overly painted girls...and even now the women who are showcased are not the know actors that once were covered by that mag..they had a few lawsuits and lost. I am not offering any debates over my experiences and what I know...I am just sharing. But to the OP...I suppose your interest in this woman has lost it's charm. But there are many out there and even here on MM who can fill those shoes very easily, and perhaps its time to hit that browser tab just above. with kindness, PixelFisher PS...by the way Jonathan...how are you! Nov 16 06 02:51 am Link |
Amazing work too! She's great!