Emotive Photography wrote:
I must ask this question, which I am sure has been asked a time or two on this site, but regardless here goes.

Are internet model dedicated to modeling?  Are they willing to:

spend what is needed
do what is needed
work as needed
behave as needed
invest totally as needed

I hear how dedicated they are to modeling, as long as they do not have to pay anything LOL!  I ask because I find it troublesome how many models on these sites who are totaly unprepared when it comes to wardrobe, makeup or even keeping appointments.  I think that TFP allows models to take a easy path. 

Please take this for what it is worth.  I am not complaining, I am just wondering?

Good question to ask oneself in any business.  That is the key right there ... the word "business!" 

It does not matter if you are working as a model in the traditional industry "not" online while doing fashion or commercial, or the owner of your own website doing tease pictures to keep members paying to see you every month.  Either way, it's a business and you must be responsible and think of it that way. If you are late to work, it has consequences, just as it does on any other job. If you don't update and load your pictures when you say you will ... you'll lose customers. 

There are people out there who understand that this "Internet modeling" thing can be profitable if you have a business plan.  It doesn't sound sexy, but it is a fact of doing business!

Nora_Neko wrote:
I know I've spent tons of money on my modeling even with doing TFPs.I buy a lot of props and clothing to wear because I like to style my own shoots and most photographers agree with my creativity.Plus I've bought countless hair clips,makeup and press on nails for shoots.So even without paying for a photographer I've paid over 1000 dollars on modeling atleast.Not to mention how many times I've paid to travel out of town to get to shoot with people.Gas and hotels aren't cheap.And yeah that comes out of my own money most of the time,Not my moms.I have a job.lol

So what are your intentions and goals?  I know you are 17 years old, but are you going to pursue modeling in a way that you can make an income?  Either signing with an agent (you are good enough!) or in freelancing as your own business?

K. Holden wrote:
The models you had trouble with most likely didn't know any better. Agencies teach models things like that. Without an agency, it's kind of a crap shoot. But, instead of "wondering", you could start a thread with advice for would-be models concerning well...your concerns.

I've not found it to be a factor.  There are many models who are not signed with agencies that are wonderful to work with.  They treat their freelance career as a business. 

I started this thread https://www.modelmayhem.com/posts.php?thread_id=672 on the forum here.  Please check it out!

Best wishes!
Patrick

LanaV wrote:
I am very dedicated to this profession. This is also why I don't do TFP. I have paid my dues ;-)

Very good point!  I do agree the press on nails and hair clips can be VERY expensive and one posted replied, but so can studio space, camera and strobes!

I paid my dues also, but it is sad that so many TFP's take palce with people who are on here simply because they were told they look pretty and have no real clue on what it takes.

Emotive Photography wrote:
I must ask this question, which I am sure has been asked a time or two on this site, but regardless here goes.

Are internet model dedicated to modeling?  Are they willing to:

spend what is needed
do what is needed
work as needed
behave as needed
invest totally as needed

I hear how dedicated they are to modeling, as long as they do not have to pay anything LOL!  I ask because I find it troublesome how many models on these sites who are totaly unprepared when it comes to wardrobe, makeup or even keeping appointments.  I think that TFP allows models to take a easy path. 

Please take this for what it is worth.  I am not complaining, I am just wondering?

You're one of those people that associates serious models with ones that pay photographers, right? Just asking.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

So what are your intentions and goals?  I know you are 17 years old, but are you going to pursue modeling in a way that you can make an income?  Either signing with an agent (you are good enough!) or in freelancing as your own business?

I'd like to sign with an agency I just always look like crap in poloroids.

Emotive Photography wrote:

Very good point!  I do agree the press on nails and hair clips can be VERY expensive and one posted replied, but so can studio space, camera and strobes!

I paid my dues also, but it is sad that so many TFP's take palce with people who are on here simply because they were told they look pretty and have no real clue on what it takes.

Blame the Internet or love the Internet.  Do not blame the models.  Thanks to technological advances, many more people now have the ability to pick up a camera or get images of themselves than ever before! 

So you believe you've paid your dues, but that does not excuse you putting down a model because she thinks she is done with the "tfp" thing too.  I do not think she fits in to the category you mention of "they were told they look pretty and have no real clue on what it takes."  If anything, Lana is far more experienced and past that!

Now if you are talking in general, then I have to agree to an extent that there are models AND photographers whom I might question why they are here.  BUT that is yours and my opinion!  It is just an opinion and that should not mean we need to kick them out of here.  After all, we all have to start someplace.  I sure hope you don't start your photo sessions by telling your model just how much you've "invested" into your equipment!  LOL

Nora_Neko wrote:

I'd like to sign with an agency I just always look like crap in poloroids.

Well you have a wonderful portfolio of images on here! Don't show the Polaroids!  I would say skip going to the lower or middle agencies ... go straight to the very top ones like Elite and Fords right now.  Then if they don't sign you right away, work your way down to a comfortable "fit" for your look and experience.  Get a short term but renewable contract. Then approach them again when you turn 18. This may also mean relocating to the best market for you.

What ever you do, you have my best wishes!

K. Holden wrote:
The models you had trouble with most likely didn't know any better. Agencies teach models things like that. Without an agency, it's kind of a crap shoot. But, instead of "wondering", you could start a thread with advice for would-be models concerning well...your concerns.

I would love more advice from photographers....
I have been upfront and honest that I am new and don't really know how to pose or much of anything else and have been lucky enough to get a few little hints here and there from some local models but not much.... I don't really understand How I should be styling my clothes for shoots or anything especailly when all I get from a photographer is I would love to tfp with you what do you have in mind...

I know I need to add diversity to my port but it would be nice if maybe a photographer could suggest a few looks or outfits to bring or try.

Patrick Walberg wrote:

Blame the Internet or love the Internet.  Do not blame the models.  Thanks to technological advances, many more people now have the ability to pick up a camera or get images of themselves than ever before! 

So you believe you've paid your dues, but that does not excuse you putting down a model because she thinks she is done with the "tfp" thing too.  I do not think she fits in to the category you mention of "they were told they look pretty and have no real clue on what it takes."  If anything, Lana is far more experienced and past that!

Now if you are talking in general, then I have to agree to an extent that there are models AND photographers whom I might question why they are here.  BUT that is yours and my opinion!  It is just an opinion and that should not mean we need to kick them out of here.  After all, we all have to start someplace.  I sure hope you don't start your photo sessions by telling your model just how much you've "invested" into your equipment!  LOL

Thank you so much Patrick for the nice compliment, I do appreciate this. All of us have worked hard to make it in this profession, both photographers and models.

Lana

Susi wrote:
This year alone I've spent over $5,000.00 on custom latex, corsets, hats, stocking, shoes, plane tickets, makeup artists and miscellaneous accessories needed to make the look perfect.  That's just this year and I have the receipts to back that up for tax purposes.  Saying models on the internet aren't willing to pay money is bullsh*t.

I would say you Susi are an above average model in most respects!!!

Ron Casas wrote:

I would say you Susi are an above average model in most respects!!!

lol, well thanks Ron.  Honestly most of the models I know personally put alot into what they do financially.  And frankly, those who don't you can tell by the quality of images that they achieve.  In my niche part of the job in modelling is having the wardrobe that artists want to shoot...I buy, borrow from designers, beg...lol...but I never steal;-)

Jeff Marsh wrote:
Susi, you are an exception. You are totally professional and your reputation in the business speaks for itself................ total pro.

Thanks Jeff....I'm glad it hasn't gotten out that I'm a pain in the ass yet:-P

Mitsukai wrote:
I don't think photographers should pay models and I don't think models should pay photographers. I think clients should pay. If the photos aren't being sold and you're only getting experience (maybe) and some pictures why would you pay $400+ for them?

Why pay for photos? Because it is an investment. That $400 spent could lead to a $10,000 job! While it is agreed that clients should pay both models and photographers for commercial work, when a model needs my skills to get her/him good images to help market themselves, then yes I charge. If the model is "amazing", then hell yes I would shoot them for free, but most of the time they will pay because they understand the benefit of good images in their book (this is in regards to agency models).

There has to be balance. If I went shooting every model who wanted for free...then I would go out of business. And in the end, for most, that is what this is all about...making money and paying bills. I think with every type of person involved in this business (i.e. makeup, stylists, models, photographers, etc.) what it really comes down to, is doing something going to help or hurt my business.

Wayne

LanaV wrote:
I am very dedicated to this profession. This is also why I don't do TFP. I have paid my dues ;-)

to discard tfp because "dues have been paid" says there is nothing more to offer to the creative process.  there are many reasons for choosing not to accept the process.  placing oneself on high based on past credit should not be one of them. 

imagine some of the greatest musicians turning down jam sessions for fun because they already paid their dues.  now imagine what other musicians feel about them and their approach to the craft.

--face reality

Wayne Sclesky wrote:

Why pay for photos? Because it is an investment. That $400 spent could lead to a $10,000 job! While it is agreed that clients should pay both models and photographers for commercial work, when a model needs my skills to get her/him good images to help market themselves, then yes I charge. If the model is "amazing", then hell yes I would shoot them for free, but most of the time they will pay because they understand the benefit of good images in their book (this is in regards to agency models).

There has to be balance. If I went shooting every model who wanted for free...then I would go out of business. And in the end, for most, that is what this is all about...making money and paying bills. I think with every type of person involved in this business (i.e. makeup, stylists, models, photographers, etc.) what it really comes down to, is doing something going to help or hurt my business.

Wayne

Well, I'm realistic enough to know that it's not likely I'll be getting a $10,000 job.  I'm not 12, I weigh more than 100 pounds and I don't rival any NBA players for height (

Ron Casas wrote:
Models should invest in themselfs or find an agency that will invest in them....

How much does the average model invest in their business?

I have over $100k invested in my business.

And I will most likely never spend that much, but I will certainly spend top dollar for all the necessary tools I need to keep my product (myself) in top order.  No dollar to dollar comparison is ever going to come out in a model's favor unless she's purchasing her own couture for shoots.

Wayne Sclesky wrote:

Why pay for photos? Because it is an investment. That $400 spent could lead to a $10,000 job! While it is agreed that clients should pay both models and photographers for commercial work, when a model needs my skills to get her/him good images to help market themselves, then yes I charge. If the model is "amazing", then hell yes I would shoot them for free, but most of the time they will pay because they understand the benefit of good images in their book (this is in regards to agency models).

There has to be balance. If I went shooting every model who wanted for free...then I would go out of business. And in the end, for most, that is what this is all about...making money and paying bills. I think with every type of person involved in this business (i.e. makeup, stylists, models, photographers, etc.) what it really comes down to, is doing something going to help or hurt my business.

Wayne

Alot of the agency's have photographers who will shoot their models for free, because it is an opportunity for them to work with real models.

Jeff Marsh wrote:
Most internet models have no clue how to build a career........... most just want some hot pictures and attention...... and lets face it, a lot of photographers dont want them to go to an agency since they would then have to pay!

Any model I shoot, who I think might have a chance in ANY niche in modeling, I try to convince to go to the agencies.

I have had the pleasure of shooting quite a number of "internet" models and in many cases they were every bit as professional as any in the business, if not more so.
But................. most just want hot pictures and the attention...
just my experience.

Yea every1 talks about how models should act so professional on here, but fashion is a flakey industry, it is just as flakey out in the real world as on the net.  And you know what, no1 is expecting anybody in the fashion industry to show up with a suite and brief case and not be five minutes late.