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She wants a deposit!
There is a model that I have wanted to shoot since I have been an MM member (about 9 mos). I asked her to consider shooting with me if she ever traveled to Vegas. I was pleased to receive an e-mail stating that she agrees to shoot with me for $125/hr (a little less than her "regular" rate) for a 3 hr minimum (normally 4 hr minimum) Here's the rub: she wants a $150 deposit to book the shoot. I understand that models feel like they need o protect themselves from cancellations. But I read the contract that she wants me to sign. If I cancel, she keeps my money. If she cancels, I get my money back within 7 days. This certainly protects her. She is taking no risk at all. But where is my protection? What is to stop her from keeping my money, never to be heard from again? I would have to track her down, sue her, have her served, etc. More hastle than it's worth. She is absolutely gorgeous, has an amazing port and resume, and I'm sure that, despite the fact that I'm fairly new at this, we would probably get some great images. How common is the practice of models requiring deposits? should I accept these terms? Nov 01 06 05:19 am Link A fool and his money are soon parted, the saying goes. Nov 01 06 05:21 am Link Her 'Risk' is in traveling to your area. I would think she would have some travel expenses. Whether or not to accept her requirements is something only you can decide. You are free to accept or decline. Seems like an expensive shoot, do you have a MUA lined up too? She would have to be an exceptional model for me to accept that condition. Nov 01 06 05:24 am Link Do you want to shoot her or not? $150 doesn't seem like that big of a risk to me...especially in Vegas (wink wink). Nov 01 06 05:27 am Link If this model is not a hobbyist and maker her living from modeling this is not uncommon at all. I don't know this particular model of course, so I can't vouch for her. However, this is not uncommon. Nov 01 06 05:28 am Link Red Sky Photography wrote: She is also a MUA, and has agreed to do her own make-up. Nov 01 06 05:31 am Link CAP210 wrote: I have always wondered how a fool and money ever got together in the first place. Nov 01 06 05:32 am Link CAP210 wrote: Your point is well taken. Nov 01 06 05:33 am Link make her sign a contract saying i hear by acknowledge that this is a deposit for work not yet rendered __________________________-model this deposit is for $ 150 for a photoshoot pending on both parties arrival. the photoshoot is between __________________________________- photographer __________________________________-signed and __________________________________-model __________________________________-signed if the model cancels and can not make the agreed date and time with no other times that can be met the model _________________________ is to return the full amount of $ 150 to the photographer ____________________ if the photographer ___________________________ can not make the agreed date and time the photographer will forfeit the deposit of $ 150 to the model ____________________________ if the model is late of set time of ______ to _______ then the $ 150 will be deducted from the hourly rate of $ ________ as set agreed on of the first hour. the check is cashed once the work has been completed or will be deducted from the full amount after the work is completed. ***make sure that when you send and signed the check put at bottom under memo that it is for "deposit with models name" on it.!!!! this becomes a legal document once both parties sign it.if she cashes the check and still cancels then it is theft. **** send the check after she signs the contract not at the same time!! Nov 01 06 05:39 am Link Image K wrote: I'd love a trip to Vegas... let me know when Bry hits "diva" status in your book ;o) Nov 01 06 05:42 am Link I really don't think that her price is unreasonable or her expectations....As a photographer, how do you make your living? do you do every thing for free or do you also charge clients based on what they are needing? I'm not asking you to answer the following questions but just to think about where she is coming from... How much do you charge a model who needs head shots, especially in Vegas? How much is it per look? Do you expect a fee up front when being booked as a photographer for any event? Do you have a time limit that if they cancel on you the money is non refundable? If models never charge and photographers never charge, how does one expect to make a living? If you don't want to pay her, what are you willing to give her for her time and expenses? I don't know, as a photographer don't you ever get frustrated when people expect something for free or can't understand the importance of the other opportunities you might be giving up to do their shoot? Just thought and things to ponder... Nov 01 06 05:44 am Link The Don Mon wrote: Great advice and great contract Nov 01 06 05:47 am Link NYAL Designs wrote: A lot of great points here. Nov 01 06 05:49 am Link The Don Mon wrote: I'm really liking this idea! Nov 01 06 05:50 am Link Some photographers require a deposit. I know who you are talking about and if you are paying her she would be worth it! Nov 01 06 05:51 am Link The Don Mon wrote: I believe that might be breach of contract ...not theft. Nov 01 06 05:52 am Link Chip Miller wrote: Who am I talking about? Nov 01 06 05:53 am Link I would think that the magnitude of the risk might be mitigated somewhat by checking her references. Email whichever photographers she has credited for her images, and see what they say about her. It should give you a good idea of her reliability and follow-through. No guarantees, of course, but it might help you decide. Nov 01 06 07:35 am Link It is a sad commentary on our times. What this thread is really about is a model trying to protect hersefl against a flakey photogapher and a photographer being afraid of being ripped off by the model. It is a shame that we have sunk to the point where we even need to have this discussion. Nov 01 06 08:12 am Link If you feel that she is worth it, then do take her offer. The contract written up above is really well thought out, and is probably a good idea. She's just trying to protect her butt from the fact that she has travel expenses that must be arranged before hand (at least that is the impression that I got.) When a shoot requires investing things before hand, then it is more of a problem if someone cancels. Now you're out expenses that can't be refunded much of the time. At most you can move tickets around, and sometimes even that costs something. Do you blame her? I have a shoot planned some time in the future, and I plan on asking for a deposit. Why? Because this very same shoot has been cancelled or rearranged three or four times now. I just wanna shoot! Good luck with your shoot, it sounds like it should be good! Nov 01 06 08:50 am Link I'm not really keeping with this thread , but can anyone out there tell me the going rate a photographer should charge a model to do a portfolio shoot ? I've never done anything but give shoots TFCD...I'll get back on track , I just can't seeem to get a reply anywhere else.. Nov 01 06 08:55 am Link Lots of photographers require deposits, why not a model? I think she's just being business-like and trying to reduce wasted time. She's free to ask for a deposit -- you're free to either pay it, or find a different model to work with. No big deal, really. It IS too bad that she needs to do that, but then from my personal experience and also talking to a lot of models and photographers lately, there has been an epidemic of flakiness recently. You gotta do what you gotta do to protect your valuable time. Regards, Paul Nov 01 06 08:57 am Link Image K wrote: /sarcasm on Nov 01 06 08:58 am Link I say do it. I don't think this is all that unreasonable a request. I see photographers on here all the time talking about how they make models pay deposits so they won't flake. I don't see why a model couldn't do the same thing. You're going to pay her anyway if you shoot. The only way you wouldn't get your cash back is if you flaked...right? Nov 01 06 08:58 am Link Partial quote from The Don Mon: "... make her sign a contract saying ..." There you go; now shoot this subject, and you two show us the photos!  Nov 01 06 08:59 am Link Full Sun Photography wrote: Lol...I'm pretty sure you're not going to get an answer here. This isn't your thread you know Nov 01 06 09:03 am Link I escorted a model to California where she was scheduled to shoot with 5 different photographers over the 3-4 day stay. Long story short, she worked with 2. Funny how all of a sudden they just disappeared. Nov 01 06 09:04 am Link Image K wrote: I understand deposits offer protection, and sometimes I wish that I required one considering I've gotten burned before...and... Nov 01 06 09:08 am Link I would agree to her terms. If she is professional about this, you'll come out ok. I see absolutely no problem with anyone in any service business like this asking for a deposit. This goes for photographers as well. When I am not shooting, I am designing and fabricating things. I require a 50% deposit on ALL WORK, balance due on completion. I don't stick to this with every customer that I have but it sure comes in handy when you need cash flow to purchase materials. This is not a fun part of the business, any business - especially when you are a creative person, but it has to be done. Nov 01 06 09:10 am Link I see nothing wrong with it. I know with my experience traveling out to cities like Vegas and LA, people cancel all the time. I have been burned out of money in the past, and stuck with a plane ticket because someone cancels 48 hours before I depart. I think is deposit is a great idea for a traveling model or photographer. I thought about requiring one myself after being burned in the past. I was afraid if I require a deposit when traveling, most photographers wouldn't take to it and I would lose more bookings. Nov 01 06 09:21 am Link Image K wrote: Untrue. If you cancel with short notice or don't show, she's lost the opportunity to book another shoot in that time period. But where is my protection? What is to stop her from keeping my money, never to be heard from again? I would have to track her down, sue her, have her served, etc. More hastle than it's worth. It's called reputation. If she were in the habit of stealing people's money, she wouldn't have one. Well, she would, but it would not be conducive to her continuing to get work. How common is the practice of models requiring deposits? Somewhat. should I accept these terms? If you want to shoot with her. Nov 01 06 09:22 am Link StMarc wrote: But how would WE know. With sites like this one and a few others, It is against the rules to OUT people like that. Nov 01 06 09:28 am Link (taking further notes: Marker 220, Samantha Grace, and my fellow Illinoisan) Nov 01 06 09:28 am Link Image K wrote: No. Don't fall for that. Nov 01 06 09:34 am Link I don't see much of a problem here. I require deposits for paid shoots. There have been a few times a girl cancelled on me an hour before and I had planned on shooting. So now, for a paid shoot, I require the session fee paid ahead of time or I don't shoot. She is doing the same thing. Nov 01 06 10:02 am Link Image K wrote: I disagree with the ideal that you get what you pay for as far as models goes. Nov 01 06 10:14 am Link Ask her to provide 3 references of photographers who have complied with this. Then actually check them. Nov 01 06 10:14 am Link John Jebbia wrote: John's so smart. Nov 01 06 10:27 am Link If she is truly that good then take the risk after all it is only $150. Nov 01 06 10:42 am Link Cardillo Photography wrote: if she doesnt do the work and she keeps the money its theft.... Nov 01 06 10:46 am Link |
You can't get a reply anywhere else because this question's been done to death in the threads, and there really isn't a definite answer to it. There is no going rate...it varies from photographer to photographer. Better photographers can charge more, so you'll be out more cash, but if you aren't that great...you'r probably not going to get much cash out of a model. Maybe try emailing other photographers that you feel you're at the same level as and ask them what they charge.
