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Narcissism and the photographer/model
Seems to be a rampant problem in the field. Worse maybe even more than the medical or legal fields. Examples of it are everywhere. Photographers and models either deservedly or not, spouting their own praise. What I want to know is how many of them realize that narcissism is a mask for deep seeded insecurity issues. Therefor when they become narcissistic their insecurity is there for all the world to see. Oct 25 06 08:07 am Link empty can rattles the most. N. Oct 25 06 08:38 am Link Maybe you are right, but have you considered it could simply be salesmanship? I don't recall ever getting a gig by either shyness or mininmizing my photographic abilities. Oct 25 06 08:40 am Link Only if it is not completely empty  Oct 25 06 08:41 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: Thank you, Dr. Freud. What about photographers who feel the need to pose as pyschiatrists? What does that say about their inner turmoil? Oct 25 06 08:47 am Link Doug Lester wrote: Salesmanship is only a tool... what you do with that tool makes all the difference. Nuance I believe is the key here, but sometimes it is blatant. Anytime you hear the words "Don't you know who I am?" then it is a dead giveaway. Oct 25 06 08:49 am Link Frank McAdam wrote: Freud was one himself.... Oct 25 06 08:57 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: I would say that it is less of narcissism in these fields then any field, because people of these professions tent to be very pragmatic. Oct 25 06 09:05 am Link Just a thought: A cirtain amount of narcissism is essential to functioning of a person within a society including any field of their profession. That could be managable depending on the "role" the person is in during certain situation. Sometimes you just have to be pushy - and have to use your narcisstic side of a personlity. For a model (just judging on myself) during a shoot - you have to like yourself more then anybody. Personally for me it takes about 30 minutes to prepare to get into that condition. And doesn't take any time to get rid of it - just takes me to look at myself in the mirror  Oct 25 06 09:08 am Link oh how i enjoy looking at myself in the mirror! don't you think it makes sense that i should ONLY have paid shoots? $100 minimum in my book! There are always going to be narcissistic people, as someone else said, in every field. Sometimes people just let things get to their head. When it happens to newer models, I think it's because they've either gone to a school and think that they can go and tell everyone that they're a model, or they've done ONE shoot and think that they're a real model now. I'm sure there are plenty of vain experienced models, but I would assume that most models with more experience would know better. There's a lot of kissing butt, especially with clients and promotions. Plus, if you come off as vain or narcissistic once, that could be enough for a client to refuse to work with you ever again and mention your attitude to other clients. Most people would know that it's just not worth it. The only real narcissism that I've come across with photographers, or even have seen through posts here, is that often times they think that they're doing the model a favor and that she should be grateful, when in fact both people should be happy to shoot. If your talent is so much better than what a model has, and you openly announce this, then why do you want to work with her? Why should the model to deal with that kind of an attitude? --Alexandra Oct 25 06 09:11 am Link Madcitychel wrote: And why would one have to do that? There is a difference between being confident, and being arrogant. Simply stating what you can do, what you are willing to do, and what you want to do is sufficient. Oct 25 06 09:32 am Link Madcitychel wrote: You haven't worked with many doctors or lawyers have you? Oct 25 06 09:33 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: Yes, there is a difference. Being arrogant and narcisstic is different also. I havent said anything about being arrogant. Oct 25 06 09:36 am Link Well in a field where a person says, you'll pay to take pictures of me... And in a field where a person says, you'll pay me to take pictures..... Some amount of ego has to be there for either of these parties to feel that their work us valuable enough to make a living from. is it egotistical for me to think my work is good enough for people to want to see? Of course it is. Is it egotistical for the model to feel she is attractive enough or uncommon enough to be chosen above others for a campaign? Of course is. Is it egotistical for a person to post a thread feeling their words are worth the time in reading? Of course it is. To say that ego is simply an expression of some inward insecurity is really only part of the truth, we all have insecurities don't we? No, ego is garnered in us as children when we learn that it feels good to be noticed, appreciated, and accepted by others. We generate our sense of self through such actions that bring us appreciation, acceptance, or notice.... And this we live our lives based upon those desires. Any thing that we do that furthers our sense of self is egotistical And thus we are all egotistical. Some of us accept it and move forward, others of us repress it because we think its bad... And we go about preaching to others how its horrible, all the while feeding the ame ego in that way that we are railing against. Oct 25 06 09:37 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote:
Oct 25 06 09:39 am Link Egoism is a part of Narcissism and as I've said before: A certain amount of it is essential for the person to function. Oct 25 06 09:41 am Link I was told there was no love like self love... but maybe that was not meant for personality attribute... hmm... There will always be someone better looking than you and talented then you... truth! Oct 25 06 09:42 am Link my high school job was working in a small town general market.. i pumped gas for a few cool people, william styron, arthur miller, charles whitney, they all had a right to be egotistic, but weren't.. in particular was alexander calder  he drove a 48 plymoth, forrest green, cool guy.. i'd be stocking shelves and boss's wife would yell out "charlie, sandy's parked by the pumps, fill him up..." one of the two most important sculptors of the 20th century, funny to remember hearing something so ordinary about him  friendly as hell, always had a twinkle in his eye, never acted like a big shot  never knew who he was til i went to his house one day.. Oct 25 06 10:17 am Link Madcitychel wrote: Not true... narcissism is the antithesis of confidence. It is a mask that is worn to hide inherent inadequacies felt by the narcissist. Oct 25 06 10:19 am Link Lady_Death wrote: The narcissistsâ self love is not a true self love. Just like obsession over another is not the same as loving them. Oct 25 06 10:24 am Link lotusphoto wrote: They were indeed then true and great artists. Oct 25 06 10:25 am Link Doug Lester wrote: Hell yeah... Oct 25 06 10:28 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: You can't be confident if you don't like yourself. True. Hence if you are confident you like yourself. Oct 25 06 10:28 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: Key words.. small town general market Oct 25 06 10:30 am Link Madcitychel wrote: I feel any true artist has inherent inadequacies, but the businesman must ooze confidence. I know I have both and they live side by side. Oct 25 06 10:31 am Link Vance wrote: actually calder started out as a mechanical engineer in penn, but moved to nyc to go to art school, he then moved to paris... he competed with the big boys on their own turf Oct 25 06 10:34 am Link lotusphoto wrote: Right on...I would say then he is in the minority.. Oct 25 06 10:35 am Link Madcitychel wrote: Yes, but that isn't the same as narcissism. Confidence is something everyone should have. Narcissism is a mask for emotional baggage, and a sign of an unhealthy mind. Oct 25 06 11:02 am Link I tend to think ego is essential to any artist, and insecurity is our home territory. We wouldn't need to be artists if things didn't bother us. Oct 25 06 11:06 am Link Vance wrote: Not true... history remembers the true artist and forgets the narcissist. Oct 25 06 11:13 am Link Searcher wrote: You might be on to something there lol... Oct 25 06 11:13 am Link Narcissism runs rampant everywhere, so it does it really come as a surprise that it might leak into the photographic/modeling world as well? But then, you have some good points brought up here: 1. There is such a thing as self-esteem and some people have an abundance of it, but they should not be called narcissists if in fact, their self-esteem is genuine. 2. Salesmanship. If you pitch something with enough gusto, you can make anyone believe it, whether it's great or not. That's what makes a good salesman (or in this case, photographer or model). 3. There are those who lack self-esteem and feel the constant need for words of appraisal. In this case, it's up to you whether or not you choose to give them what they desperately seek or just ignore them and move on to what you feel is genuinely the best thing. It sounds so simple, doesn't it? Oct 25 06 11:17 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: But we didnt forget Him..Thus the term narcissist. Oct 25 06 11:17 am Link Vance wrote: Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: i dont see the taualogical progression from vance's statement to bryan's.. Oct 25 06 11:19 am Link "they were indeed true artists.." Does this mean then that any one who us arrogant, self obsessive, or narcissistic cannot be a true artist? Well let's see... We need t erase Picasso, Van gogh, toulouse Le trec, geiger, Pollock, adams, witkin, maplethorpe, and oh yeah.... Me. Oct 25 06 11:31 am Link a narcissist is someone who tells a self confident person that they are arrogant. You can tell if someone suffers from self absorbsion simply by the number of times they tell others that they are wrong. Oct 25 06 11:42 am Link Vance wrote: Narcissus was a fictitious character. Oct 25 06 11:45 am Link Bryan Patrick Coleman wrote: maybe, maybe not.. bet the first guy to write him into life had more than a few people to model him after.. Oct 25 06 11:49 am Link ravens laughter wrote: But for an artist to be truly self-absorbed is to reach a negative nirvana where the work simply flows from your veins. In one way a bad thing, in another way an incredibly good thing. The valleys allow the peaks. Oct 25 06 11:50 am Link ravens laughter wrote: Interesting... I am not sure that the APA would agree with you however. Oct 25 06 11:51 am Link |
