C R Photography wrote:
You've been shooting since the 80's (with a break).

So what's so different about then and now?

I've been shooting since the 80's and it's like everything.

The more you put in, the more you get out.

There's something you're either saying or not saying that's driving these models away.
Search your soul brother, find your inner-Zen, release the child inside and embrace your femininity, absolve your negative light and absorb the positive.

If that don’t work, try Jack Daniels. Chicks dig drunk dudes

I think that the problem lies in the fact that I am all business. I don't flirt, I don't show any interest other than getting the shot. I guess my attitude worked better in the 80's, now it's a different generation. I wonder if  tried acting unproffessional and started hitting on models, also insisting on having them pose for nude erotic work they might be more receptive. Who knows, maybe I might be lucky and have one of them put a wedding dress on and pose for a formal shot! I'll just tell her that it's for some kinky fetish pictures and won't let her know that I will actually be using them for a wedding business.

snegron wrote:
Yep. I give up. I have tried to set up shoots with over 15 models on this site and only one showed up. I have set up a bunch of shoots with "models" that have expressed they are really interested only to have them back out at the last minute. At least the one who backed out today had the decency to email me and tell me she was not going to the shoot we scheduled for this afternoon (this was after several emails up to 8:04 this morning).

I have decided that it's just not worth the aggravation. I don't know how to convey the fact that I am not some creep out there trying to nail some pretty face. All I am is a wedding photographer starting a new business trying to get bridal portraits for my portfolio/wedding album.

I have offered the "models" prints, CD's, money, and even to shoot their wedding for free, yet nothing. I understand now why so many wedding photographers out there have hideous models in their portfolios, they can only get family or butt ugly clients to pose for their bridal portraits!

OMP sucked even worse. I guess I had higher hopes on this site, but I was wrong. Sad thing is that photography in itself is a very tough business to survive in. Not having a decent product to show to clients due to lack of models does not help either.

If you're willing to pay, go to a local high school or college and tell them how much you're willing to pay them to come in and shoot in a wedding dress.  I'm sure you'll find plenty of cuties.

snegron wrote:
I think that the problem lies in the fact that I am all business. I don't flirt, I don't show any interest other than getting the shot.

I wonder if  tried acting unproffessional and started hitting on models, also insisting on having them pose for nude erotic work they might be more receptive.

You are jumping from one extreme to the other, and that may reflect in your dealings with the models.

I think that most models who shoot with photographers, escpecially if they want to pay them, have to be in one form or the other inspired by the photographers work.

That is a big motivation.

You may have to pay two or three models, maybe agency models to get really good shots with gorgeous models into your portfolio. This may help to break the barrier and other models give you the "wow" effect and are much more willing to actual show up to shoot with you...

DigitalCMH wrote:

If you're willing to pay, go to a local high school or college and tell them how much you're willing to pay them to come in and shoot in a wedding dress.  I'm sure you'll find plenty of cuties.

I thought about that some time ago, but  was concerned about the "creep" factor. Think about how it would look for some fat middle aged guy (me) going into a college or highschool and posting a request for models on a bulletin board? Either campus cops, police, or PTA would be running after me with torches in hand.

Udo R Photography wrote:
You are jumping from one extreme to the other, and that may reflect in your dealings with the models.

I think that most models who shoot with photographers, escpecially if they want to pay them, have to be in one form or the other inspired by the photographers work.

That is a big motivation.

You may have to pay two or three models, maybe agency models to get really good shots with gorgeous models into your portfolio. This may help to break the barrier and other models give you the "wow" effect and are much more willing to actual show up to shoot with you...

Sadly, I think you are correct. My problem with using models from a local agency is that there is only one in town and their prices are way out of my range. Last time I contacted them the wanted $150.00 per hour, 3 hour minimum, and a sign up fee just so I could view their selection of models. My guess is that they have an in house photographer and view me as possible competition. So, it's back to the analogy of what came first, the chicken or the egg? You need great models to make a great portfolio, but you need a great portfolio to get great models.

snegron wrote:

I thought about that some time ago, but  was concerned about the "creep" factor. Think about how it would look for some fat middle aged guy (me) going into a college or highschool and posting a request for models on a bulletin board? Either campus cops, police, or PTA would be running after me with torches in hand.

Understandable!!  Totally!  Bring your portfolio AND your camera.  Maybe ask to take a picture or two and you'll e-mail it to them.

Unless you're in a small town in FL, there has got be a way you can find someone.

snegron wrote:

Sadly, I think you are correct. My problem with using models from a local agency is that there is only one in town and their prices are way out of my range. Last time I contacted them the wanted $150.00 per hour, 3 hour minimum, and a sign up fee just so I could view their selection of models. My guess is that they have an in house photographer and view me as possible competition. So, it's back to the analogy of what came first, the chicken or the egg? You need great models to make a great portfolio, but you need a great portfolio to get great models.

You have an excuse for everything.

Why not take some of the advice provided to you here and run with it instead of diminishing it?

snegron wrote:
I know this is realy tacky, but at this point I don't realy care. The following is a partial list of models I have had frustrating experiences with:

misskellygreen= No show after we confirmed the shoot by phone the day before.

tormentedhrt= After numerous emails and planning for about a month, she gave me some lame excuse oneor two days before the shoot.

aprilangel= after about a month planning she did not show for the shoot and did not bother to call or email with any reason.

agentglam= showed up for first informal shoot on time, never bothered to email or contact me for bridal shoot.

The following "models" just stopped contacting me after we tried to set up a shoot. They all seemed interested at first, but then for no reason stopped all communication with me.

cassandraLorien
ajparmerlee
Andrea Klemhoff
D Sposato221
fareedah44 (at least emailed me the day of the shoot to cancel)

Part of the problem may be that you're using models with monikers. For the most part, serious models don't use them, they use a name. I think if you stopped contacting moniker models, you might experience a better ratio.

Also: You might want to remove the monkey from your portfolio, if I was a model, that would throw me a bit...


John

snegron wrote:

Sadly, I think you are correct. My problem with using models from a local agency is that there is only one in town and their prices are way out of my range. Last time I contacted them the wanted $150.00 per hour, 3 hour minimum, and a sign up fee just so I could view their selection of models. My guess is that they have an in house photographer and view me as possible competition. So, it's back to the analogy of what came first, the chicken or the egg? You need great models to make a great portfolio, but you need a great portfolio to get great models.

Go for amateurs!  You don't need a great model, just maybe a pretty face.  My OMP portfolio had a picture of a sunset, a couple pictures of my niece, and a picture of Tia Kai that I took at SHOW.  Most of the models that were interested in shooting with me liked the photo I took of Tia.  Hmm...since that's the photo that kind of got me attention, maybe I should post it, hehe.  Then, after shooting with my first model, almost my entire OMP profile was of this one girl and it snowballed.

Really, all you need is ONE pretty girl and I think you'll get yourself rolling.

C R Photography wrote:

You have an excuse for everything.

Why not take some of the advice provided to you here and run with it instead of diminishing it?

And that advice would be...?

Peter Dattolo wrote:
Dude you have been here a little over a month, you have 4 photos in your port that are wedding shots. There are lots of photogs on this site and the models are not gonna jump all over you for photos when there are so many others available.
Give it some time, put more photos on your port and contact some models. Some will do a no show and some will not but it happens. Maybe the fact that you have been here a little over a month and have 4 photos on your port is making them think your a GWC all the more.
Anybody can say they have been doing phtography since the 80's but your port does not reflect that.
Try updating your port with various photos and give it some more time.

Chicken or the egg Peter, chicken or the egg.

DigitalCMH wrote:
Go for amateurs!  You don't need a great model, just maybe a pretty face. 

Really, all you need is ONE pretty girl and I think you'll get yourself rolling.

There is a huge advantage of using a gorgeous agency model... she KNOWS how to pose and can run through many different poses to shoot for him.

Makes it soo much easier to shoot, especially if he doesn't have much experience in that field. He learns in the process FROM the model as well, which he can translate into his future work with pretty girls.

snegron wrote:
My problem with using models from a local agency is that there is only one in town and their prices are way out of my range. Last time I contacted them the wanted $150.00 per hour, 3 hour minimum, and a sign up fee just so I could view their selection of models.

In that case, invest the $500 into your new business venture, pay the fee, pay for the model and select the most gorgeous girl you can find...

Shoot her, from all angles, outside, studio whatever, make best use of the time with her and let her work for the money you pay.

As I wrote in the other reply, you also get great ideas on how such a real model works, her poses etc.

THEN, you go and pick the pretty chicks at the local college and you can post your compcard with a series of that model you shot. I am certain you will get excellent girls then and you have also a better undestanding of poses that you can direct the amateurs.

Good luck

John Allan wrote:
Part of the problem may be that you're using models with monikers. For the most part, serious models don't use them, they use a name. I think if you stopped contacting moniker models, you might experience a better ratio.

Also: You might want to remove the monkey from your portfolio, if I was a model, that would throw me a bit...


John

Thanks John. I'll get rid of the monkey. The models with monikers actually contacted me after I put in a request on the Casting Call forum. They are the ones that seemed interested at first then flaked in the end. I have several old pics from models back in the 80's, I can't use those for obvious reasons. They are probably parents or grandparents of the models on this site! Also, I am trying to focus on wedding photography, which I am new at. So far, the few weddings I have shot have not had any usable models. I am trying to capture an artistic edge in wedding photography, so far clients want the traditional stand and stare type portraits. It's their dime, I can't argue.

snegron wrote:

Chicken or the egg Peter, chicken or the egg.

I was gonna say something but forget it.

Udo R Photography wrote:

There is a huge advantage of using a gorgeous agency model... she KNOWS how to pose and can run through many different poses to shoot for him.

Makes it soo much easier to shoot, especially if he doesn't have much experience in that field. He learns in the process FROM the model as well, which he can translate into his future work with pretty girls.

Yes, but he doesn't want to pay them.  So he needs to take the next step.

I will admit, I got lucky.  Christine, though she is an "amateur" she had modeled and KNOWS how to pose.  She just doesn't care to model (her portfolio was a profile shot of her sitting in someone's passenger seat and some some photos which looked like they were taken in a booth at the mall.  Can you believe that?  I litterally struck a gold mine!  She did it on purpose.  She was tired of getting contacted by photogs.  She hates studio work with all the flashing lights.  But since I didn't have a studio and wanted to shoot outdoors, she jumped on it.

And she has never had a desire to do anything with my photos.  She just loves having me take her picture

Peter Dattolo wrote:

I was gonna say something but forget it.

Please, don't hold back! As I wallow here in my misery and self pitty I would like nothing more than to experience that extra little boot in the rump confidence booster that might propell me to create that ever elusive photographic masterpiece!

snegron wrote:
Thanks John. I'll get rid of the monkey. The models with monikers actually contacted me after I put in a request on the Casting Call forum. They are the ones that seemed interested at first then flaked in the end. I have several old pics from models back in the 80's, I can't use those for obvious reasons. They are probably parents or grandparents of the models on this site! Also, I am trying to focus on wedding photography, which I am new at. So far, the few weddings I have shot have not had any usable models. I am trying to capture an artistic edge in wedding photography, so far clients want the traditional stand and stare type portraits. It's their dime, I can't argue.

I agree with what Udo said also about having just one agency model in your book - consider it an investment to attract pretty girls if you want. Also, you might ask the agency for a 1/2 day 'editorial rate' - it's usually considerably less than their aggregate hourly.
Also, make sure the agency knows that you don't require a release on the images and that they are just for 'book building'.

John

Mark Crismond Photos wrote:
Have we tried going to local bridal shops and offering to trade your services with them (they help you find models from their clients and you let them use some images for free in their advertising)! You win both ways...finding the right face and tear sheets!

Only gig in town is David's Bridal. The others are consignment shops. I approached a few of the consignment shops with that idea some time ago and they asked "Can we see your portfolio?" My response was yes, soon, I am working on it, all I need are just a few models...

snegron wrote:
I am trying to focus on wedding photography, which I am new at. So far, the few weddings I have shot have not had any usable models.

If you want to do wedding why not post a resume and price list at your local church or at a bridal shop.
I dont think many models are on this site to get wedding photos done and trying to find models at a wedding is kinda tacky to me. Handing them your card would be ok i guess but still sounds tacky to me.
I got 4 offers to do wedding from baseball games and friends so that is something else to try.

John Allan wrote:

I agree with what Udo said also about having just one agency model in your book - consider it an investment to attract pretty girls if you want. Also, you might ask the agency for a 1/2 day 'editorial rate' - it's usually considerably less than their hourly.
Also, make sure the agency knows that you don't require a release on the images and that they are just for 'book building'.

John

I am going to try that. It seems like good way to approach them again.

snegron wrote:

Please, don't hold back! As I wallow here in my misery and self pitty I would like nothing more than to experience that extra little boot in the rump confidence booster that might propell me to create that ever elusive photographic masterpiece!

I was gonna mention a few thing but nevermind those. The one thing that i was gonna mention though is trying a more professional looking name. The "snegron" to me does not sound or look like a professional wedding photgrapher. What about Snegron Photos or Snegron Phototography?
Is snegron your name?

Peter Dattolo wrote:

If you want to do wedding why not post a resume and price list at your local church or at a bridal shop.
I dont think many models are on this site to get wedding photos done and trying to find models at a wedding is kinda tacky to me. Handing them your card would be ok i guess but still sounds tacky to me.
I got 4 offers to do wedding from baseball games and friends so that is something else to try.

The church idea sounds good. (David's Bridal here is off limits for an unknown like me). There are several churches here I have not tried (I got yelled at and kicked out of the Catholic Church offices when I went to inquire about advertising in their weekly publication and contacting couples that were registered to be married soon. There seems to have been a number of photographers approaching them for similar reasons and I happened to show up when they were at their wit's end)

Yetunde wrote:
Hmmm Working off your portfolio I might understand why... There are certain images that can turn a model off. My advice- Upgrade this portfolio with heck of a hot shots.. talk to the models always before you shoot with them at least 10-15 min convo on what look they want, why they want to shoot with you and basically about the intended shoot. It goes a long way to make you realize initially if you two are even a fit.

e.g I shot with Bruce Talbot we talked for about the shoot way before then met up and we clicked and then we shot.. it was awesome

I  am yet to be guilty of a no show.. lol that's coz if your portfolio is not impressive I won't even contact you in the first place and if it is, you better believe I'll hunt you down till we shoot..

So don't be discouraged... Your port is like your business card if it looks hot I'll ask u where u designed it.. This portfolio is not impressive. And if they are working of off this? it will be so easy for them to change their mind… It’s unprofessional yes, but it happens. Stick at it..

Thanks for the tips.  I agree with you 100% about my portfolio not being impressive. If I only had a model I would have better pics....back to square 1.

snegron wrote:

The church idea sounds good. (David's Bridal here is off limits for an unknown like me). There are several churches here I have not tried (I got yelled at and kicked out of the Catholic Church offices when I went to inquire about advertising in their weekly publication and contacting couples that were registered to be married soon. There seems to have been a number of photographers approaching them for similar reasons and I happened to show up when they were at their wit's end)

Well there are lots of places to advertise for free if you look. Places that deal with wedding events like elk clubs, hotels that provide for wedding events, resorts or places that hose the bridal parties, strip clubs for bachellor parties, Local places that provide for J&J's.
Just go in and inquire about leaving your card or putting your card up on a bulletin board ect.
Bad idea to ask for a list to contact people. If the church things sounds good then find out where they have most of the bridal party photos done (park, club, fountain ect) and go there on your own time. You will see people doing photos alot if your there enough. Just walk up and ask them if you can take thier photo for them and send them the photo thru email. DOnt charge for this, it is more for advertisment. Put yuor info on the photo so they can contact you if they are interested or know someone who can use your services.
Give them the best photo though, tweak it so it looks awsome.

DigitalCMH wrote:
Yes, but he doesn't want to pay them.  So he needs to take the next step.

A few people said this
The OP said he had offered $ to the models.  He never said he was unwilling to pay, he was just looking for lower fees than the agency local to him asked.