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I Give Up.
SLE Photography wrote: Yep. Money didn't work either. I took everyone's advice and got rid of the monkey. Also, I just posted a few new pics on my portfolio. Aug 17 05 12:47 pm Link snegron wrote: Did these people actually set up a time to shoot with you and not show? Or did they just express interest and maybe decide that they were too busy to set anything up with you? I know that I have expressed interest with some photographers but I can't yet set up a time because of my schedule. So my plans are (and I've told them) to get back to them when I know I'll have free time. Aug 17 05 12:52 pm Link Except for MM couples 2 and 1, start over and then start cutting your own barbed wire: --Bridal modeling is commercial craftwork, not art for art's sake, so putting up some money and charging it off to studio advertising may be in order; --Others have mentioned CC photography departments: I'd add college and community theater operations to those recruiting grounds; --Do chat via e-mail and over the phone with models on deck: that process should break some ice, dispel doubt, and create a mutual sense of obligation when it comes to scheduling a shoot. --Speaking as an old, fat bald guy (not really, but I'll confess to middle age), let's lose that self-conscious and sabotaging attitude now.  I get a couple to a few wedding referrals every year without advertising or marketing collateral other than my business card. Social circles (here on earth, not in cyberspace, at least no yet) and word of mouth work, and I've been able to close by referring prospects to very pleased brides. I make my money, which is too good to turn down, on the shoot and hand the proofs and negatives over to the customer. You should be able to do much better for making an effort. Ask your old customers whether you can refer diligent prospects to them and let those "raving fans" (Tom Peters' phrase) sell you. Finally, wedding pictures are someone's private family pictures. "Edge" sounds cool, but bright and lovely and just right moments may bring you more of the green stuff, which tends to be the point with wedding photography. Aug 17 05 01:19 pm Link I just went through the Florida list. All those pretty girls and you're having trouble????? I would say leave the amatuers alone and be prepared to pay a real model, think of it as a wise investment into your business. Aug 17 05 02:00 pm Link don't give up-just do background checks on how reliable the models are:) Aug 17 05 02:06 pm Link I hear you. I've had more no shows than you can imagine. I pay my models always (maybe not much), and they still don't show up. The acid test of a model's interest is this: when I reply to an email from a model, I always give my phone number and tell them to call me to discuss the job. I never hear from them again. What does that tell us? Obviously they weren't serious. The phone number test is a sure fire way to weed out the wannabees. Aug 17 05 02:08 pm Link commart wrote: I think you nailed it right on the head! The few weddings I have done so far are the "bright and lovely" type but I need to have something eye catching to set myself apart from the rest of the "bright and lovely" photographers in my area. I am sure that my clients are not going to want cutting edge type wedding pics, but the idea is to create a visual impact that impresses the client. For example, there are a couple of bridal shows in my area once a year. The tables are filled with photographers showing their portfolios in an effort to book clients. Only two of them caught my eye because of the visual impact type photos. Their cards, brochures, and advertising materials were covered with great photos they had taken. Their tables were full of clients while the other photographers at other tables were twiddling their thumbs. Aug 17 05 02:17 pm Link Lora wrote: With all of the above (except fareedah44) I was in contact via email. Most had been in constant contact and we narrowed it down to a specific week, then, no more contacts. With fareedah44 I was in contact for about 3 weeks. Everything was set for today. We had a time, a place at the most public place of all, the zoo (great garden section with no animals in that part). I told her to please bring another person with her. At the end of my last 3 emails with her I mentioned that if she couldn't make it to please let me know so I wouldn't have to drive 2.5 hours to Tampa and wait there for her not to show. She kept on insisting that yes, she was interested and would be there. She emailed me this morning to tell me she couldn't make it. I thanked her and I sincerely appreciate the fact that she just didn't show like others. Aug 17 05 02:26 pm Link It's models like the ones you listed that give the rest of us just starting out a really bad name...no wonder it's so hard for the rest of us to get photographers to trust us as internet models (collectively)! Too bad you are in Florida :-( I would have worked with you. I really wanted to get some bridal images after seeing the bridal inspired issue of tease. I think it would have been fun to do some shots in the ocean at sunset. :-) Aug 17 05 02:36 pm Link OK DUDE... Check it out. First of all, this is probably not the best place to market wedding photography. I shoot them myself, as well as family portrates, school sports teams, pets and just about every thing else.. I do not advertise that type of work here and I do not try to use photos from that type of work as a selling point here either.... I said selling.. You are selling yourself to the models on this site. Show them something they want to see. Use the relationships you build in MM to show your diversity. There are a couple types of models here... The new model who thinks she is going to throw a few pics up on the internet and strike it rich within a month, is the most common type you will run into. No problem.. Just try to work with them within that first month. I have done just fine with models who have little or no experience. The other type of model.. The real professional DOES exist... But they require 2 things... Money and qulity. You can offer to pay them, but if they don't like what they see on your portfolio... They will probably not work with you. My advice. Find a couple of brand new models who have little or no experiance and still think they are going to make a million dollors.. Do a couple of shoots with them and get some images on your site that makes people turn their heads... Not wedding pics. If you can do that you will have models contacting you. And quit being such a downer...  Just my advice Mike Aug 17 05 05:53 pm Link I think you'll have to go to an agency and pay models to pose for you in wedding stuff. I asked a few models I know about how they felt about posing in wedding dresses...none found it appealing. It might be a gurl thing. You know how they are about all things wedding. Aug 17 05 06:00 pm Link I have had limited shoots scheduled, probably a couple dozen, but I've yet to have a no-show. On the other hand, I've had plenty of e-mail contacts where the model just stops communicating. I don't know why, and it really doesn't matter. If they don't have the interest for whatever reason, good or bad, I'm not going to try to infuse it in them. Just shrug and move on. When I started out, I paid the model every time, and perhaps a couple times I paid too much, but it got me going. You want to join the club, you pay the dues. Now I still pay, particularly for stuff that I want to do, but I also have some people here and there saying, "Shoot with me, please," even in spite of the fact that my photography generally deosn't really focus on making the model look good. (check out the port if you don't believe it - maybe 4 or 5 out of 20) Patience, serenity, and a good businesslike approach will take you places. Maybe it doesn't seem like it at first, and that's where the patience comes in. Patience. Aug 17 05 06:07 pm Link May I make a suggestion: Go to your local Bridal shops. Tell the proprietor what you are looking to do. Ask if you can leave a few of your business cards for potentional brides to contact you for a FREE portrait in their dress. Wait for the avalanche of phone calls. (and wedding offers) Pick and choose from those that reply until you get the images that you need. Oliver Cole Aug 17 05 06:25 pm Link Contact a local radio station and turn your problem into a solution by holding a contest. The winner gets their wedding shot by you for free. Most radio stations are always looking for ways to increase their listener numbers. And it couldn't hurt to have your company name dropped everytime they talk about the contest on air. You could also get a database of the names of people who entered the contest and then do a mailing with a discount or some other offer to get the non winner gigs as well. The first rule of thinking of thinking outside is to understand that there is no box except that which you have created. Aug 17 05 06:27 pm Link Justin... I have to disagree with you.. After looking at your portfolio(The part about the models not looking good). They look great... And they look different. "Alone" for instance. I could never pick that model out in a line-up... It would serve little or no purpose to her if submitted to an agency.. But it is a great shot and models love to have wonderful.. Different shoots. (I'm a fan of B&W) That is my point. He needs to add a few things to his port that are unique. By the way Oliver has probaly given the best advice so far if weddings are all you want to target. Peace. Mike Aug 17 05 06:29 pm Link snegron wrote: NEVER give up !!!! Aug 17 05 06:38 pm Link snegron wrote: you cannot tell what advice to take? Aug 17 05 07:09 pm Link Wow! I really appreciate all the feedback! I will be trying many of these suggestions soon. As for the pics currently displaying in my portfolio, those are the reasons I need to get models! I don't think I was happy with any of them, but I needed to post them to illustrate why I need to get models for bridal portraits. Showing these pics to potential clients is not a good idea, that's why I am trying to create a portfolio to my liking. I have not advertised yet nor made any seroius business contacts only because I need a good working portfolio to show clients. There is a chance I might not work with any models on this site, but it has been worth it to be here just to get the feedback from all of you. Again, thanks! Aug 17 05 09:20 pm Link I haven't had any models from this site pull a no-show yet. It's because most of them don't even bother to reply to a message. The messages that I've sent have been polite and did not ask them to do any nudes or anything erotic or pornographic. This site has one thing in common with OMP in that it's like sending messages into a black hole, messages go in and (mostlly) nothing comes out. Ay least here you know the message has been read. Unless they come up with a way to track responses and dump those that don't respond to a reasonable number of messages this site will be just another model listing site that isn't worth much. Aug 17 05 09:54 pm Link Hey Bill, I see you shot Monica. She's from Pgh, right? Paul Aug 18 05 12:03 am Link snegron! I don't know what the situation is, maybe the "happy bride" in your avatar is a person close to you and you don't want to offend by taking it down (politically!). But if it's NOT your wife, gf, or so... she is the UNHAPPIEST bride ever... take the photo OFF and don't use it again. You have some great smiling photos from the other weddings... use those as avatars! You have three comments on that pix (2 from me) to delete it, others in this forum advised you to take it down. I think you don't realize how much it hurts your portfolio! Udo... aka someonewhowishesyouwell Aug 18 05 12:09 am Link if all else fails... pay the model. if that doesn't work, post up an ad somewhere. casting call maybe? Aug 18 05 12:15 am Link A quote that I've read somewhere here on MM: "You're only as good as your worst photo" Quite frankly, while you have some pretty good wedding photos posted, ya got a few more that are... not so good. As Udo stated, the bride on your current avatar looks sadder than hell. Similarly, on my screen her dress appears more gray than white. A few brightness/ contrast adjustments on a photo editing program can easily bring the 'white wedding' into the seemingly drab dress. Ya might want to color correct for the blue hue that's also evident in the photo. A reflector or flash should have also been used to bring some light into the brides face. Similarly, a few other photos have harsh shadows going across the subjects faces, that could have been eliminated with the use of a reflector or fill flash. Another photograph causes a bridesmaids tattoo to be the center of attention, rather than the bride and groom. Recrop it a certain way for a much more dramatic presentation. Of all the wedding photos displayed, I'd only use two or three of 'em... the B&W with Red Roses, The color photo of a bride holding red roses with her back against a column, and possibly "Proud Father". The other pictures don't do you justice, and may be part of the reason models decide to change their mind about working on your project. Aug 18 05 12:35 am Link I think a big reason is you're having trouble is because it seems like you're lying. You say you've been shooting since the eighties. In all those years you only have 10 images in your portfolio? And out of those 10 its looks like its only from 3 different weddings. And no offence but the 10 images you do have from those 3 weddings seem pretty amature. Where are all the pictures from all those years of shooting? I would never no show, but in all honesty I would have told you not interested. If you paid 75-100 an hour, maybe even 50, it doesn't matter what your portfolio looks like you should get models. Run an ad in your local small paper. If anything you'll be able to get the strippers and escorts, run it in the back of the paper that advertises for those sorts of things. sorry if that was offensive, just being honest Aug 18 05 08:16 am Link Hel Inferna wrote: Thank you, no offense taken. I am pretty sure I mentioned this before, but here it goes again. Aug 18 05 09:20 am Link snegron wrote: I understand that, but until you have more bridal shots that are good, I would fill your portfolio out with other subject matter, just so you have good photos. Then as you get better bridal shots you can focus your portfolio on just that. But good photos of any subject matter are better then nothing. Aug 18 05 10:05 am Link Oliver Cole wrote: Excellent idea. Aug 18 05 10:26 am Link I think if it was the quality of your samples the models would have not agreed to work with you in the first place. Anyone can use the Internet and a lot of really great models that are nice people use it, but they are outnumbered by those that are not so responsible. Aug 18 05 10:30 am Link snegron wrote: Well when you have an attitude like that, NO one is going to want to shoot with you.....When the going gets tough, the tough get goin! Aug 18 05 10:32 am Link angelavasquez wrote: Sorry if I am not happy go lucky. I started with a positive attitude, the "models" I have dealt with on this site are the ones who rained on my parade. It's not a matter of being tough, it's more like let's all be professionals and do what we say we are going to do. If a model says she will show up to a shoot, then she needs to stop being a prissy little irresponsable primadonna and show up to the shoot or have the professional courtesy to call and cancel. That would save everyone time, money, and aggravation. Just because I have given up on the so called "models" on this site does not mean I have given up on photography. I will just follow the advice several people have posted on this thread to get a real model locally. Also, I believe that the information shared by other photgraphers on this site is worth it for me to stay here. So, in other words this site is great for sharing info with other photographers, but I don't think I am going to waste my time and energy trying to arrange a shoot with any of these imaginary models. Aug 18 05 04:47 pm Link ...but I don't think I am going to waste my time and energy trying to arrange a shoot with any of these imaginary models. That's too bad, cause there are a lot of really good imaginary models here. Aug 18 05 05:30 pm Link I got an e-mail this week from a 17-year-old "fashion designer" looking for sponsors for a show. I asked her if she had pictures of assembled work. I think she did but she suggested I go to Yahoo and look her up in that system. Sigh. I waited a day and then suggested she make doing business as easy as possible for anyone, associate, customer, or sponsor, interested in doing business with her. Some thing similar may apply here: --If you can't stand behind your work in an even moderate, much less superlative way, take it down: markets have no mercy; --Mess up, lose the game, or wipe out at whatever: stand down a while, get your groove back, and reappear with a hit. Can't get a collaborating model for the bridal shot you need? Get one for something else in a style as bright and warm and as perfectly executed as you can make it. Again, good luck. Aug 18 05 05:59 pm Link Mark Crismond Photos wrote: BINGO Mark! Best solution posted so far. Aug 18 05 06:57 pm Link School is starting. The price of books and gas is rising. Everybody is broke. Take out an ad in the college paper. Offer $50 an hour and two hour minimum. Or advertise a casting call for a Bridal portrait exhibit.If you're offering prints offer something big. A 16x20 only costs $20-$25 from a good lab. I think CPQ Colorchrome still charges $40 for an economy canvas print and (cheap) frame. Contact the college art and photo deptartments. Join the local PPA guild. Set up some group shoots, ask them for models names. Stop crying, I'm 250 miles South of the nearest city and I found some gorgeous models. Bruce Aug 18 05 07:09 pm Link |
