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2 months and still no CD from TFCD
Corey Wellman wrote: I think one thing we may need to factor in is the difference between the hobby photographer shooting on the weekend vs. the full time photographer shooting everyday. (not to put anyone down or say anything in a negative or disrespect way nor to imply or assume I know or judge the level of this or any other photographer) If it's a hobby then I'm sure you get to work right after the pics are shot because you are excited to see your results. As a full time photographer, all that excitement to see something you've shot a million times tends to die down so you don't run straight to the computer and start knocking out images immediately after they're shot. Especially when it's like your 2nd or 3rd shoot of the day and you still have projects from a week or two ago to deal with. I usually spend just as much time in the post production work as I do actually shooting. So let's say I shoot a model TFCD/TFP for about 3-4 hours. I then come back and spend about 4-5 hours in transferring images over to the main computer and backing them up, then converting them to jpgs, then creating proof sized images, then uploading them to the proof site, then getting the file numbers back from the model and retouching them for print and for web, burning them to a disc, dealing with packaging them up, drive to the post office, and mailing them out. So basically, I just gave you 8 hours of my time which equals to 1 full work day out of my work week. For a full time photographer, that's a lot of time to be giving away. Ever heard of the expression nothing is for free or you get what you pay for? Well there it is. If you're shooting TFCD/TFP then you might keep getting knocked to the bottom of the pile when the clients who pay my bills and put food on the table insist on having their stuff right away. I'm sure you're going to ask, why accept TFCD/TFP work then? The answer is that's why I really don't like to and that's what I try to explain to models. All they know is show up, shoot, and then go home and wait. They spend 3-4 hours shooting the project and that's the end of their work day. Photographers spend about 7-8. It's taken me a few months to get people some cd's for different reasons. One was I put it in the mail and believe it or not it came back to me about 5 months later as undeliverable. She never called or said anything so I never knew. A few times I just got over loaded with work all at once and my paying stuff is always going to come before TFCD/TFP. A few times the model just totally disappointed me and gave me no energy so I wasn't too worried about wasting another couple of hours to get the stuff done. Not to mention they were picking the worse shots out of the bunch because they liked their hair in this one or their lips in that one or the way their stomach looked flat in another one mean while totally ignoring the overall picture and all of its elements. I'm not excited to put out bad work so it can be a factor in how long it takes me to get something done. Another reason it takes a while is because I used to just send models proof cd's right away but too many of them were the "I can't wait to post these all over the internet" type and would use raw images after I asked them not to so I got tired of it and stopped doing the proof cd thing. Now all they get is edited images. Oct 26 06 07:52 am Link Ruben Grolet wrote: Yes, as you said sometimes it takes hours, days, weeks, it's time consuming. And that's what I think a lot of models don't realize. That's where my frustration comes from. Oct 26 06 08:01 am Link I have a site that the models, stylists, etc. can look at the photos and download all the way up to the originals. As I get them done, I put them up. Instant gratification on all sides. Do to medical constaints I can't get to the post office. Normally I just give them the disk when they show up for the next shoot. So far it works! Oct 26 06 08:02 am Link Kendal Carr wrote: YES! That's another thing I think is forgotten, or not taken into consideration. Thank you! A few times the model just totally disappointed me and gave me no energy so I wasn't too worried about wasting another couple of hours to get the stuff done. That too! Lol.. Oct 26 06 08:03 am Link Yes this same thing happend to me. And now it been almost 2 years. Oct 26 06 08:07 am Link I've got one photog that I did 2 shoots with and although I love his personality and talent, I have been waiting for the edited images 6+ months and counting. There's another photog that is also very talented, and she has the final images posted on her MM site but when it comes to sending us those images, she disappeared from the phase of the planet. There's yet another photog that I agreed to do a TFP with, and I did about 6 looks in one evening, got off at 1am, and after she posted the contact sheets online for me to choose the images from and I sent her the selections, she disappeared. We are talking about a waiting time of at least half a year in all of the above cases. This all happened to me this year. Now, I am generally a SUPER nice person. I'm tolerant, patient, on-time and professional, and I believe my photos speak for themselves on whether or not I'd be an asset in your photoshoot. And I won't be calling names here. But, to all photographers out there, we models are putting in honest efforts into your shoots for you to achieve the images you are seeking. Ofcourse anyone would prefer to get paid, in fact I prefer that my shoots were all paid (who wouldn't), but when I'm accepting a TFP offer, that means I have a lot of respect in your work and I am putting trust in you that you come through with your end of the bargain. I've got no problem with waiting a couple of months... but please understand that most of us models have a pretty short shelflife as a model vs. decades of possible career as a photographer. For us, 1/2 year is quite darn long. By the time we get those images they will probably be to "old" for us to be able to make use of them in our book. Meaning, if you do TFP and it takes forever for us to get those photos, the photos that we were expecting as a form of payment for our time would have a declined value by the time we get them... in a way, it's a rip-off. And I think this goes beyond just the issue of a written agreement, I think it gets into the issue of how lightly some photographers take us models AND MUA/Hair/Wardrobe (as they also didn't get images in my aforementioned cases). It's just not nice. I've worked with many wonderful photographers on a TFP basis, and I really don't mind continuing to do some TFP as long as the experience is rewarding. But things like this really turns me off from the whole idea. Whether or not you choose to be professional about anything is beyond my say. However I really hope that this would happen less often to not only us models, but MUAs/Hair/Wardrobe that also suffers from similar treatment by some photographers. Oct 26 06 08:16 am Link If this happens just keep on the photographer. I'm a bit of a burn out and really busy and can understand how something may fall down on the list of priorities. That being said, if he promised them within two weeks, then you should have them. Two months is way too long. Oct 26 06 08:18 am Link you've been had. Oct 26 06 10:07 am Link Kaitlin Lara wrote: This is what I was going to say. You don't need to be rude about it, just a simple, "Hey, I'm still waiting for the images from our shoot on xxxxxx. Please let me know when you get a chance to send them out!" Oct 26 06 10:17 am Link Susi wrote: You must be really patient! I don't know if I'd want to wait 2 or 3 months. I know stuff happens and if I'm being forewarned that it will take longer, I don't mind the wait. I normally would *like* the photos within a month or so (if it's possible). Oct 26 06 10:22 am Link I once sat as a photo subject for a local photographer late last year. A friend of mine and I found his work interesting and felt working with him could be beneficial in branching out to do shoots ourselves. Aside from the "two low-resolution samples" that still exist on his site, he never gave me a cd of the work. I lobbied for the work awhile but it seemed after April had came and went, I just accepted I would never get the disc. The last email I got consisted of him telling me how he "would love to make a cd for me..", etc. My guess is that since I wasn't a real model he felt no obligation to do it, or feared I would try to "use" his work as my own self-portraits or something bizarre. It was an important lesson as I was put in the model's shoes by photographers not delivering the product. I believe if the images are really terrible and not usuable as deemed by the artist- an explanation is in order. Models get shafted all the time it seems. Photographers owe some kind of reasoning behind these actions instead of just hoping people will go away and forget. Oct 26 06 12:25 pm Link Why are you models always so insistant about the CD? I doubt you'll use every one of the edited images anyway. BTW I send a CD after I've edited all the pix, BUT as I edit I email images back to the model, within say 1 days of the shot the model generally has around 25 images ready to post on her site. But anyway... See if you can at least get a portion of the edited images emailed to you Oct 26 06 01:31 pm Link A big part of photography is the editing. So it can take a while. Especially if the photographer works alot. I do my editing in the order the shoots were done. It's completely normal and within reason to wait for a month. When I do TFCD I try to get them to the model in about a month. 2 months is still reasonable I think if the photographer works alot. After 2 months you should def. give him a shout out to see what's up. He may have forgotten. It happens. I've done jobs and simply forgotten to mail the cd out. On the other hand I've done shoots and a couple days later already got emails about when they could have the photos and I just shake my head. I can spend an hour on just one photo so it does take a long time for me to get one photoshoot done and ready to mail out. Oct 26 06 01:40 pm Link Getting stiffed, very common as you can read, now these report's are just what people that are posting about. I have a theory, laziness is alot of the reason cd's aren't recieved by the model's. Though, there may be cases where the image's may be deemed bad in the photographers eye, so he/she doesn't release them for reput ation purpose's which is a shitty thing to do. As bad as a model is-was, there has-had to be at least 1 image that could be considered useable, so to me that possiblity is utter bullshit. Give the model's what you agreed to. I know editing take's time, get it done as quick as possible. Just my .02, Marc Oct 26 06 01:54 pm Link Face Arts wrote: Oct 26 06 02:04 pm Link Annique Delphine wrote: I can't count the number of times I've told that to a model. It goes in one ear and out the other. Oct 26 06 02:29 pm Link to the o.p., still no cd? if so, damn.... Oct 26 06 05:38 pm Link wow! which reminds me lolz Oct 27 06 06:14 am Link Sascha wrote: Nov 17 06 12:36 pm Link Kimberly R Walker wrote: Nov 17 06 12:38 pm Link Doesn't the "T" in TFCD stand for time? If that's the case he's just adhering to the spirit of the shoot and taking his...time, that is. Nov 17 06 12:41 pm Link I would not make any public comments until you have contacted the person in question privately. This would be my first step before going all out and telling everyone else. Always consider many possibilties including 1- Perhaps they have gotten very ill and are unable to do any work. 2- Many of us are not full time photographers and have a full time job that takes up our time. This is me and I do work on the images when time permits. Depending on the job, it may not be possible to work on the images for a week or so. 3- If it as TFCD/TFP with a full time photographer ,remember paying clients come first.If they have a lot of work from paying clients be patient 4- Even us hobby photographers may do many shoots and I work on the images in the order the shoot was done. I am happy to say for me so far one month is the longest it has taken me to send or have a CD ready. But I also email images to the model as I work on them. That way at least they have some images to post. So as mentioned above contact person in question and ask what the status of your images on Cd is? Too many people are too quick to want to make a bad name for someone. And yes I rarely give the unedited images right after shoot. Only once I have done this. Be nice and try to find out what has happened, who knows maybe a fate worse than bad illness has befalled the photographer. And ask that they email some images as they work on them. But I would allow at lest two months. For the one that has been waiting over a year that is crazy. Nov 17 06 01:11 pm Link I didn't read through every post in this thread so I don't know if this was stated but I've actually had models that failed to contact me for the print portion of TFP. I used to do a cd with a Photoshop slide show of the best shots from the shoot and they were allowed to pick 5 for printing. Nothing on the cd was good for anything accept maybe a pic on the web. Now I do it on my website, but isn't that pretty strange too? And believe me, the shots weren't crap, so go figure? My advice for a model is shoot with someone who can demonstrate integrity and passion for what they do and gratefulness towards the model for helping him/her out. That kind of shooter is what you want. Good luck David Nov 17 06 01:30 pm Link 2 weeks is short time??? This goes back to the age old argument.. "PHOTOSHOP" ive watched people take hrs editing an image, imagine if they took those hrs and learned to shoot without so much editing needing done? a model could have her photos in a few days or even the same day!!! My good friend once told me, You can take a crappy photo and make it descent, but in the end its just a polished piece of crap. Of course photoshop is used and has great uses, but how can one improve their ability when its easier to cheat and edit? If the image is for sale, sure edit ur heart out, if its for a publication, typically they have editors. but if either of those 2 are the case, then the model was paid and doesnt get pics anyways. I say if he said 2 weeks and it goes more than double that, give him a chance at FED-EX and if the cd doesnt arrive, alert others to the matter. If you wouldve showed up 3 weeks late to his shoot would that have been ok? or even 3 hrs?? As photographers we cannot demand of others what we are not willing to live with ourselves. Nov 17 06 01:44 pm Link I don't think 2 weeks is a long time. What I normally do is post the proofs from the shoot within a day in an online gallery for the model to go through. I usually have a CD out in a week (after the model has let me know which images she wants). And I work full time, have 3 kids, and do photography as a hobby. If I can get the CDs out that fast, so should "professionals." If they commit to a shoot with you, even if it's TFCD, then they've committed to you and should follow through, regardless of what shoots they have afterwards. Nov 17 06 01:54 pm Link Everett Day wrote: What's your point? The complaint is having gotten no images at all. And besides, if his/her work isn't good enough to look at after shooting, where is the photographic skill? The pictures should look good before editing anyway. Come on! If I shot a wedding and didn't have the brides pics to her in a timely manner, there would be hell to pay! Nov 17 06 04:28 pm Link Two months is at the limit of what I'd consider acceptable to deliver a CD unless the orginal arrangement allowed for more time. I take a long time to process photos. I change my mind and redo some or parts of them. It's part of the artistic process. But part of showing professionalism is being responsive. Ask him to explain the delay. Ask for a CD of whatever he's finished with a date of when the rest will be done. Photos for a model have a short shelf life so you have an interest in getting your shots before you change your look. If he won't respond or dodges your questions and requests, I think you have shown great restraint and escalating the issue may be your next recourse. But at least your conscience will be clear knowing that you tried the nice way and then some. Nov 18 06 08:57 am Link |
