David Blewett wrote:
On a brighter note... you are incredibly beautiful... stunning in fact...

David

awww thanks David! *blushes*

Looknsee Photography wrote:
2)  When you put (let's call it) an accusation on your profile, you are asking us visitors to take your word for it.  How do we know that these photographers didn't provide you your images?  What's their side of the story?  If a photographer complains that a model didn't show up, how do we know that it was the model who was at fault?  You are asking us to judge the accused while only hearing one side of the story.

as for this point I think it's much different than you are explaining. whether or not I received my CD is pretty clear cut. I did or I didn't. as for a model not showing up there are fuzzy lines as to whether or not that is true. maybe there was a misunderstanding on the meeting time or location. it is difficult to assign fault in those situations. as for whether or not my CD has been given to me is definitely clear cut. and no "fault" is being assigned in this situation. It just says that the photographer has not given me my CD, YET. It's just saying that hey, I've worked with these photographers and it's taking them a while to get me my stuff. there's no anger or bashing involved.

UnoMundo Photography wrote:
starting more crap ?

normal delivery time for photos is 90 days!

K. It is in the mail I swear !

lol, the nudies that we did better be in there. i would be disappointed to learn you scammed me and they were really for your personal collection

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
as for this point I think it's much different than you are explaining. whether or not I received my CD is pretty clear cut. I did or I didn't. as for a model not showing up there are fuzzy lines as to whether or not that is true. maybe there was a misunderstanding on the meeting time or location. it is difficult to assign fault in those situations. as for whether or not my CD has been given to me is definitely clear cut. and no "fault" is being assigned in this situation. It just says that the photographer has not given me my CD, YET. It's just saying that hey, I've worked with these photographers and it's taking them a while to get me my stuff. there's no anger or bashing involved.

Sorry, I disagree. 

Your profile paragraph is open to interpretation.  By putting that there, I get the impression that the CD is overdue, even though you didn't state that explicitly.  Why would you mention that you haven't yet received the CD if it wasn't yet overdue?

You may say you haven't received the CD.  How do we know that that is true?  What does the photographer say?  If he agrees that he hasn't sent it, well then I believe you.  What if he says that he did give you the CD?  What if he says that he mailed it two days after the sitting to the address you provided?  Perhaps you had a typo in the address you gave him, or perhaps he misread the address & sent it to the wrong place?  What if he told you that he was going to send it two weeks from now & he wonders why you are calling him out, giving others the impression that he's late?  What if he understands that he didn't promise you a CD -- instead he expected you to grab the images from his website? 

All I am saying is ...
   ...  it doesn't reflect well on you,
   ...  that part of your profile doesn't tell the whole story,
   ...  that the meaning of that part of your profile is ambiguous, and
   ...  it's not worth the grief.

I'm just saying that you are providing only one side of the story.  We haven't heard his side.  You expect us to take your word for it.  I'd like to believe you, but if I want to be fair-minded, I can't side with you if I haven't heard from the "accused".

dgold wrote:
...not rude at all.
It's never rude to allow the truth to be told.

So, you believe her, even though you haven't heard the photographer's side of the story?  Why?

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I can't side with you if I haven't heard from the "accused".

nobody is being accused.

to accuse: to charge with the fault, offense, or crime. to find fault with; blame. 

none of that is going on by my impression of looking at my profile again.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
So, you believe her, even though you haven't heard the photographer's side of the story?  Why?

I do, but that's only because I trust Jessie.

Crazy-Evil Angelus wrote:
"This is not my full body of work. I have more images that I just haven't receive as of yet."

Or a similar variation.

I like this idea, I might do that once I've seen some more input from other people in this thread.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
nobody is being accused.

to accuse: to charge with the fault, offense, or crime. to find fault with; blame. 

none of that is going on by my impression of looking at my profile again.

Your profile says, "Photographers I have worked with who have NOT given me my full CD of the work yet:"  -- the caps are yours.  You are charging these photographers with NOT living up to their agreement to provide you with a full CD.  You are asking us to believe that all these photographers have in fact promised you a full CD, and we know that many photographer chose not to provide full CDs.  The way it is worded implies that these photographers are overdue.

I'm sorry, but by nature, I am skeptical.  We are being asked to judge these photographers without getting a full & fair accounting of the story.  I just can't do that.

Look -- you asked the question -- the impression I get from all this is that you are accusing these photographers of not giving you all the images from your sittings.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Look -- you asked the question -- the impression I get from all this is that you are accusing these photographers of not giving you all the images from your sittings.

accusations imply that there is a chance of doubt.

it is a fact. I have not received the CD.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
Of the 3 listed there:

1 is the one mentioned in the original post

1 is completely ignoring my persistent messages. He told me the excuse that he and his GF broke up and he had to leave for Colorado and so he's been in a bind. He has told me twice now "ok, it's in the mail today" and I still see nothing.

1 is completely awesome and we're shooting again next month. We made the agreement that my CD of images would be given to me after the shoot. After we were done shooting he said "I'll give you your CD the next time you come shoot with me, sort of a way to make sure that you'll come back and shoot again". I didn't plan on NOT coming and shooting again but it just depended on my schedule. This was never agreed during our emails so I'm a little perturbed that he's basically forcing me to shoot with him again.

Whether or not you "believe me" is kind of shocking.

My entire profile could be a lie! I say "I did all the makeup in my shots unless otherwise noted". How do you know I'm not lieing? What about models that list all of these credits on their profile, how do you know they aren't lieing?

I, for one, am not saying that you are lying.  I'm just saying that I haven't heard the whole story from both parties involved, and therefore, I am suspending judgement.  I have no reason not to believe you.

Going back to your original question -- yes, I think it is a tad bit rude to ask us to take your word for it in your disputes with some of your photographers.  I'd go further to say that I think it is an inappropriate usage of your profile.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
accusations imply that there is a chance of doubt.

it is a fact. I have not received the CD.

Why is there no doubt, from our perspective?  We haven't heard from the photographers in question.  Perhaps they'll say that they never promised you a full CD or that they had sent it to you last week or that ...  There is a chance of doubt.

Look -- I didn't mean to get you upset, and it's beginning to sound like perhaps you are.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
Look -- I didn't mean to get you upset, and it's beginning to sound like perhaps you are.

I'm not upset, I'm just defending my position

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
1 is completely awesome and we're shooting again next month. We made the agreement that my CD of images would be given to me after the shoot. After we were done shooting he said "I'll give you your CD the next time you come shoot with me, sort of a way to make sure that you'll come back and shoot again". I didn't plan on NOT coming and shooting again but it just depended on my schedule. This was never agreed during our emails so I'm a little perturbed that he's basically forcing me to shoot with him again.

I know of a photographer, here, that did that. Not in those exact words, but that's the way it went over. And then, after the second shoot, how do you get the images from that shoot?

Iris Swope wrote:

I know of a photographer, here, that did that. Not in those exact words, but that's the way it went over. And then, after the second shoot, how do you get the images from that shoot?

exactly! what if you decide to take a break from modeling? how do you ever get that last CD?

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

exactly! what if you decide to take a break from modeling? how do you ever get that last CD?

You don't
In the case I'm thinking of, the model didn't do the second shoot, because it was stupid. But she really liked the images form the first shoot....But she never got them

FosbreStudios wrote:
I'm not done transfering your head to pamela anderson's nudy body yet, when i finish, i will mail the cd


hehehehehehehhe LOL

good. I've been getting a little antsy (

Jessalyn_54 wrote:

good. I've been getting a little antsy (

Looknsee Photography wrote:
2)  When you put (let's call it) an accusation on your profile, you are asking us visitors to take your word for it.  How do we know that these photographers didn't provide you your images?  What's their side of the story?  If a photographer complains that a model didn't show up, how do we know that it was the model who was at fault?  You are asking us to judge the accused while only hearing one side of the story.

3)  Such actions invite retaliation, and as noted above, the truth is irrelevant, or at least relative.  For example, suppose you say that Charlie Photog hasn't provided you with your images -- what's to prevent him from posting on his profile that you didn't show up to your sitting?  Then what's to stop you from posting that he touched you inappropriately?

4)  If it gets nasty enough, it can cause legal problems to not only the participants but also to MM.

I'm not sure that I agree here.
Only because we are supposed to answer truthfully when someone emails us for references. So by your way of thinking, what is the point on taking anyone's word for it...they could be lying??? I think that Jessie is giving HER side of the story...if someone reads it, sees it, and are interested, and then they should find out the other side of the story; pretty common sense. If I saw someone was ranting about a photographer, I would either ask the photographer about it and/or get more references. It is all part of this world. I think Jessie is allowed to show her side of the story.

I would most likely post everyone’s name I worked with, and at the bottom make it VERY clear that SOME of the people you have worked with have ended unsatisfactory and to contact you for a reference. IF the person is interested in so-and-so they will ask you and see if THAT person was the one that was unsatisfactory. They have the option of contacting others and getting more opinions. If everyone does it in a professional way, there shouldn't be a debate.

-Jael-

Jael M wrote:
I'm not sure that I agree here.
Only because we are supposed to answer truthfully when someone emails us for references. So by your way of thinking, what is the point on taking anyone's word for it...they could be lying??? I think that Jessie is giving HER side of the story...if someone reads it, sees it, and are interested, and then they should find out the other side of the story; pretty common sense. If I saw someone was ranting about a photographer, I would either ask the photographer about it and/or get more references. It is all part of this world. I think Jessie is allowed to show her side of the story.

I would most likely post everyone’s name I worked with, and at the bottom make it VERY clear that SOME of the people you have worked with have ended unsatisfactory and to contact you for a reference. IF the person is interested in so-and-so they will ask you and see if THAT person was the one that was unsatisfactory. They have the option of contacting others and getting more opinions. If everyone does it in a professional way, there shouldn't be a debate.

-Jael-

Well, you didn't quote the first point I made -- what is the objective of your profile?  I'd say that it is to make a first impression for potential collaborators.  If you devote part of your profile to telling your side of an unsatisfactory experience, what impression are you making?

Further, I believe that "truth" is relative -- what we see on profiles like this is half of a "he said / she said" story, and the photographers in question might have a different perspective about what is true.  For example, the OP's profile gives the impression that the CD is overdue, while the photographer might believe that he was given more time to produce the CD.  I'm not saying anyone is lying -- it could be a simple misunderstanding.  I'm just suspending judgement.

Certainly, if someone e-mails me for a referenece, I'd tell them the truth as I perceive it.  But suppose the "accusation" is sufficiently severe to chase away future business?  That could be actionable, for both the accuser and for MM.


I'm a bit confused.  I thought we were asked our impression of this practice -- I feel that it is a tad unprofessional and somewhat inappropriate, and I've given several reasons why.  Are you guys interested in feedback like that, or do you just want to justify the practice?

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I'm a bit confused.  I thought we were asked our impression of this practice -- I feel that it is a tad unprofessional and somewhat inappropriate, and I've given several reasons why.  Are you guys interested in feedback like that, or do you just want to justify the practice?

I asked for opinions, I didn't say that anyone would be right or wrong. So everyone has the right to defend their opinion.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
.... We made the agreement that my CD of images would be given to me after the shoot. After we were done shooting he said "I'll give you your CD the next time you come shoot with me, sort of a way to make sure that you'll come back and shoot again". I didn't plan on NOT coming and shooting again but it just depended on my schedule. This was never agreed during our emails so I'm a little perturbed that he's basically forcing me to shoot with him again....

This strikes me as bait and switch on the part of the photographer.  My recollection is that *two* CDs in a 9x6 clasp envelope weighs less than 3 oz., and that first class postage to anywhere in the U.S.A. for that would cost 87 cents.  He can't spring for nominal postage?  But instead holds the promised items hostage for another shoot?  Not nice....

You shouldn't have to do this, but consider removing his excuse by sending him an SASE so that all he needs to do is drop the CD into the envelope and drop that envelope into the mail, and let USPS do the rest....

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
On my profile I list photographers I have worked with, then I list photographers that I have worked with that have not provided me with my CD of images yet.

I didnt think it was a big deal. I had 2 purposes behind this:

1. so people knew that I had worked with others but I did not have their work displayed because I had not received it.

2. so models would know that it could take a while to receive their images from the photographer.

I got an email from one of the photographers I have listed, and he was not angry with me (so he says) but was surprised I would do such a thing. I worked with him in July and have not received my CD of images yet. We were supposed to work together a couple of times but he canceled everytime (once was 1 hour before our shoot). I emailed him a few times asking when he wanted to reschedule and he never replied to my emails. So I thought he had "dropped me" for whatever reason. I have spoken with another model he has worked with and she said it took this photographer 8 months to get her the CD she was owed.

My question is this: should I remove this from my profile? Is it considered rude? I didn't think so but someone seems offended by it...

EDIT: I also wanted to note that I did not give their MM numbers out. It would only mean something to models that want to work with those photographers and already know their names/MM #'s. Yea you could browse for these photographers but that would be out of the way. I don't make it easy to find them.

Depends. If it has been only 2 or 3 weeks since the shoot and something like that appeared, I would absolutely be pissed. But if it has been a month or more with no explanation from the photographer, then I have no problem with it at all. About three years ago I ended up in the hospital for close to three weeks. Obviously some CDs and prints were late, but the first day I was home and able to sit up straight, I emailed the ladies to let them know what was going on. All understood and none had a problem with the delay. All had their CDs and prints within 5 weeks of their shoot. No CD, no prints and more than a month without communication from the photographer, there is no excuse. There is no photographer's side of the story and I've no problem with your message.

In all honesty, if I saw it in your profile it would probably give me a chuckle.

Jessalyn_54 wrote:
accusations imply that there is a chance of doubt.

it is a fact. I have not received the CD.

There are pros and cons to every situation, and three sides to every story (in case you don't know "your's, thier's and the truth).

You've stated a fact. "I have not recieved images yet, but it's still pointing a finger at someone else's shortcomings and can be taken offensively. Next time you shoot with someone, get an idea of how long it'll take to get the CD's to you. 90 dys seems pretty damned long, but if that's what a photographer states and you agree, you'll have to wait.

I'm not saying that you have or haven't asked about the time it might take, but in the meanwhile, you're giving someone a blackball.

I truly believe there ought to be a fair rating system on the sight, but it would definately kill the mods having to try to track down the third part of the story (see first sentence) when a situation errupts. There are many threads on this already it seems.

On a personal note, I love the lower right midsection tat (wish I could see it better in your port), and yes, as has already been stated, you're a gorgeous model. Would love to shoot with you, but it takes two and a half years for me to mail CDs. Kidding!

Rossi Photography wrote:
See... I understand your view of it. At the same time, I agree with those that say, it's unfair because like they said there's always two sides. And that's not saying, I don't believe your side of it. But being on the other side a few times, myself, I will keep an open mind in situations like this.

I've had a couple similar situations where a model claimed I didn't get her disc to her when she "thought" I should've.

In the summertime, I'm busy, busy, busy. I get behind. Especially this last summer. One of the photo editing programs I was using.. something in it was causing the photos to look out of focus when the models were trying to get prints. I couldn't figure out what the hell was causing it. Well, after hours of trying to figure it out, I narrowed it down to the feature I was using to reduce the digital noise. I had used that on almost every shoot. The program ended up being screwed up and I had to buy a new one. So, when I had models coming to me complaining that this was happening, I ended up having to redo (re-edit) almost every shoot. That put me wayyyyyy behind. I had that to do, shoots booked, etc... and models complaining wanting their discs. I'm only one person. So, it took some time to get caught up. In the meantime, I heard that a couple models were trash talking saying I never gave them their disc, when they knew what happened and that I had to start from scratch with the editing. And there was another model, who assumed just because photographers she'd worked with in the past had her disc to her in a matter of days, that I would also. I explained to her my schedule, when to expect the disc, but it went in one ear out the other. So, I kept my patience with her as long as I could. Then I get a bitchy e-mail (for the tenth time). I finally let her have it and said, "Look.. if you can't be patient, then I'll refund your money". She quickly changed her tune. Once she did get the disc, she writes me saying, "I finally got my disc. They're excellent. Thank you. I'll recommend you.". Yeah... she says that now, but is she going to go back and tell her model friends that she bitched to about me that it was her being impatient and disregarding anything I'd told her about delivery of the disc and when to expect it? I doubt it.

that's very rude of the other models to be trashing you when they knew what happened. If this photographer had emailed me and said "hey, ___ is why I haven't gotten you a CD yet" I would be totally fine with that. it's understandable. but this one stopped replying to my emails and never offered an explanation.

Dredful Jaymz wrote:

There are pros and cons to every situation, and three sides to every story (in case you don't know "your's, thier's and the truth).

You've stated a fact. "I have not recieved images yet, but it's still pointing a finger at someone else's shortcomings and can be taken offensively. Next time you shoot with someone, get an idea of how long it'll take to get the CD's to you. 90 dys seems pretty damned long, but if that's what a photographer states and you agree, you'll have to wait.

I'm not saying that you have or haven't asked about the time it might take, but in the meanwhile, you're giving someone a blackball.

I truly believe there ought to be a fair rating system on the sight, but it would definately kill the mods having to try to track down the third part of the story (see first sentence) when a situation errupts. There are many threads on this already it seems.

On a personal note, I love the lower right midsection tat (wish I could see it better in your port), and yes, as has already been stated, you're a gorgeous model. Would love to shoot with you, but it takes two and a half years for me to mail CDs. Kidding!

thank you for the compliment on the tattoo and as long as you tell me it's gonna be 2.5 years then I'm fine with that! (lol....not really.)