Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
ap?
So, I'm in negotiations with a 'model' about a paid opportunity for her, when she pulls this shit:
Model: My manager advised me that I must have the right to approve any of the pictures before you use them. So I am interested but we will need to add this to the contract before we shoot. Let me know if this will be a problem.
Me: I'm sorry. I cannot agree to this. Since you would be paid cash on the day of the shoot I would have no assurance from you that any of the images would ever be approved. If I were to agree to this, what would stop you from taking the money and then rejecting every image presented.
However, I am willing to compromise. If you would be willing to defer your pay until you approve of a predetermined number of photos then I am willing to proceed with setting up the shoot.
Model: That sounds like it might work. Let me talk to my manager and get back with you.
Model: Sorry. That will not work. I expect to be paid at the end of the shoot.
Model: John. This is ______________'s manager. Im not sure what your trying to pull but it sounds to me like your trying to weesle a free shoot. _______________ gets paid for her shoots. You should understand that we just want to make sure bad pics do not get posted anywhere. We are just trying to protect her image.
Me:And I'm just trying to protect my wallet. So unfortunately, I will not be able to accomodate your needs. I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.
Model: Well that sure was a waist of time!
Photographer
Yerkes Photography
Posts: 459
Kingston, New York, US
thats funny .....
thanks for the post ... lol
Photographer
Ken Pivak Photography
Posts: 837
Los Angeles, California, US
There's no manager...managers don't do that and besides, there are no managers for models they're agents and legally a manager cannot negotiate...only agents (California).
It's bullshit.
Listen if you are paying...use an agency and get away from fishing for models here...they are not professional and this is what one gets.
If you want to soar like an eagle then stop flying with turkeys. My sister always said this...not a bad thought and I think it applies here.
Photographer
Stephen Melvin
Posts: 16334
Kansas City, Missouri, US
"A waist of time." Hmm...
Photographer
SKPhoto
Posts: 25784
Newark, California, US
John Jebbia wrote:
ap?
So, I'm in negotiations with a 'model' about a paid opportunity for her, when she pulls this shit:
Model: My manager advised me that I must have the right to approve any of the pictures before you use them. So I am interested but we will need to add this to the contract before we shoot. Let me know if this will be a problem.
Me: I'm sorry. I cannot agree to this. Since you would be paid cash on the day of the shoot I would have no assurance from you that any of the images would ever be approved. If I were to agree to this, what would stop you from taking the money and then rejecting every image presented.
However, I am willing to compromise. If you would be willing to defer your pay until you approve of a predetermined number of photos then I am willing to proceed with setting up the shoot.
Model: That sounds like it might work. Let me talk to my manager and get back with you.
Model: Sorry. That will not work. I expect to be paid at the end of the shoot.
Model: John. This is ______________'s manager. Im not sure what your trying to pull but it sounds to me like your trying to weesle a free shoot. _______________ gets paid for her shoots. You should understand that we just want to make sure bad pics do not get posted anywhere. We are just trying to protect her image.
Me:And I'm just trying to protect my wallet. So unfortunately, I will not be able to accomodate your needs. I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.
Model: Well that sure was a waist of time! Careful, there are people lurking around here who might claim you were unreasonable.
I'll bet that if you had hired her you would have expected her to actually show up too. The nerve.
Model
LORA
Posts: 5067
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Pixel Fisher wrote:
Listen if you are paying...use an agency and get away from fishing for models here...they are not professional and this is what one gets. From what I've seen in the forums, this site is full of unprofessional models and photographers. I hate to hear a photographer make a general statement about all models here though.
Photographer
Papa Vic Photography
Posts: 8211
Glendale, Arizona, US
Stephen Melvin wrote:
"A waist of time." Hmm... Does that make Thanksgiving feasting "a time of waist"..?
Photographer
Giacomo Cirrincioni
Posts: 22234
Stamford, Connecticut, US
I need a break, I just responded harshly to another thread and now after reading this one I just spent two minutes punching a bag as hard as I could.
This site (and the bullshit internet modeling mentality) is really starting to get to me....
Photographer
Ken Pivak Photography
Posts: 837
Los Angeles, California, US
The statement was made to make a point to the OP...it's always the case that others take it personally. No...not all models, lets just say the many amatures that many of these MM members seem to be complaing about in the threads. I just spoke up a bit louder this time.
sorry to offend anyone...I was not speaking to all.
PixelFisher
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
But the question is...
Where in the world do they get the idea that this would be agreeable to anyone?
Model
123489234
Posts: 213
New York, New York, US
where do models find these managers who cannot spell? is it some secret industry standard that model managers may not be able to spell?
the mind boggles.
Model
LORA
Posts: 5067
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Pixel Fisher wrote:
The statement was made to make a point to the OP...it's always the case that others take it personally. No...not all models, lets just say the many amatures that many of these MM members seem to be complaing about in the threads. I just spoke up a bit louder this time.
sorry to offend anyone...I was not speaking to all.
PixelFisher Oh I definitely didn't take it personally, but thanks anyway.  I just don't like watching the confidence in internet models dwindle.
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
John Jebbia wrote:
But the question is...
Where in the world do they get the idea that this would be agreeable to anyone? John, I think you are talented. I think you are a smart man so my question to you
and to all those who produce solid work and even pay is...
Why do you guys put up with this silly crap? The moment she said manager told
me would have been my signal to say good bye. A model recently asked why I
didn't call her when she didn't show or call and I told her, You are a adult. If
we have a agreed shoot day and time I expect YOU to call and confirm or
cancel. In your case, you are PAYING. When its my dime its my way. Don't
get me wrong I'm respectful but do you get to tell your boss how to run his
bussiness or what you will or won't do. You of course did the right thing but
hey when she said my manager told me, conversations over. Let her manager
pay her.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Tony Lawrence wrote:
John, I think you are talented. I think you are a smart man so my question to you
and to all those who produce solid work and even pay is...
Why do you guys put up with this silly crap? The moment she said manager told
me would have been my signal to say good bye. A model recently asked why I
didn't call her when she didn't show or call and I told her, You are a adult. If
we have a agreed shoot day and time I expect YOU to call and confirm or
cancel. In your case, you are PAYING. When its my dime its my way. Don't
get me wrong I'm respectful but do you get to tell your boss how to run his
bussiness or what you will or won't do. You of course did the right thing but
hey when she said my manager told me, conversations over. Let her manager
pay her. In all honesty, I was more or less searching for entertainment value by continuing the conversation and proposing my compromise. I knew when I suggested it she wouldn't go for it. I was really more curious to see what she/he would come up with next.
Photographer
Ken Pivak Photography
Posts: 837
Los Angeles, California, US
John Jebbia wrote:
But the question is...
Where in the world do they get the idea that this would be agreeable to anyone? It's not agreeable...I would have told them to leave immediately.
Unless they pay to own the copyright, they cannot do this. Unless and this is the only time I know something like this goes on. When I shoot celebrities...well known actors etc. and I am shooting for their "publicist"..only then does the actor have a choice. It's their appearence and your portfolio and they own the right to their image...it's a shared privilage.
So unless this particular model is paying many others to make sure she is famous and is a known name...then I can understand this. Remember to, that the publicists also hire a photographer they like and it's the publicist who tends to edit the images and so few are ever "X"ed out.
A model that seems to be saying things without knowing why they are saying them or that they had to get back to you, only shows me that they are not pros. If so they would understand the true process.
Sorry to get a bit harsh with you earlier. And since we are not having this discussion over a beer I felt the need to go on harder...making it easier to lessen as we go on with this thread.
I feel you did the right thing...you own the copyrights and always will...no one can tell you how to use your images unless under contract they pay you for those rights. To bad for the model.... The lack of trust that develops with models who are not professoinally represented can go a bit overboard...I can't blame them, but until someone comes up with a way to assure the safety and professional intent over the internet, we will always have something like this to write about.
with kindness,
PixelFisher
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 21528
Chicago, Illinois, US
John Jebbia wrote:
In all honesty, I was more or less searching for entertainment value by continuing the conversation and proposing my compromise. I knew when I suggested it she wouldn't go for it. I was really more curious to see what she/he would come up with next. I kinda thought that was a bit strange as you impress me as a no nonsense guy.
By the way look for a PM from me.
Model
Jessalyn
Posts: 21433
Denver, Colorado, US
*picking up jaw off the floor* that's absurb that the other party felt that was an acceptable agreement. gave me giggles.
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Pixel Fisher wrote:
It's not agreeable...I would have told them to leave immediately.
Unless they pay to own the copyright, they cannot do this. Unless and this is the only time I know something like this goes on. When I shoot celebrities...well known actors etc. and I am shooting for their "publicist"..only then does the actor have a choice. It's their appearence and your portfolio and they own the right to their image...it's a shared privilage.
So unless this particular model is paying many others to make sure she is famous and is a known name...then I can understand this. Remember to, that the publicists also hire a photographer they like and it's the publicist who tends to edit the images and so few are ever "X"ed out.
A model that seems to be saying things without knowing why they are saying them or that they had to get back to you, only shows me that they are not pros. If so they would understand the true process.
Sorry to get a bit harsh with you earlier. And since we are not having this discussion over a beer I felt the need to go on harder...making it easier to lessen as we go on with this thread.
I feel you did the right thing...you own the copyrights and always will...no one can tell you how to use your images unless under contract they pay you for those rights. To bad for the model.... The lack of trust that develops with models who are not professoinally represented can go a bit overboard...I can't blame them, but until someone comes up with a way to assure the safety and professional intent over the internet, we will always have something like this to write about.
with kindness,
PixelFisher I understand what you're saying. However the internet has always been my primary source for models. I find the models I work with from here are more within the budget of many of my projects. I am more of a freelancer and so I need to keep the costs as low as possible. But, with the good comes the bad. I've accepted that. But even so, this stuff still makes me laugh. And that in itself is sometimes worth it.
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
Photographer
Pat Thielen
Posts: 16800
Hastings, Minnesota, US
John Jebbia wrote:
ap?
So, I'm in negotiations with a 'model' about a paid opportunity for her, when she pulls this shit:
Model: My manager advised me that I must have the right to approve any of the pictures before you use them. So I am interested but we will need to add this to the contract before we shoot. Let me know if this will be a problem.
Me: I'm sorry. I cannot agree to this. Since you would be paid cash on the day of the shoot I would have no assurance from you that any of the images would ever be approved. If I were to agree to this, what would stop you from taking the money and then rejecting every image presented.
However, I am willing to compromise. If you would be willing to defer your pay until you approve of a predetermined number of photos then I am willing to proceed with setting up the shoot.
Model: That sounds like it might work. Let me talk to my manager and get back with you.
Model: Sorry. That will not work. I expect to be paid at the end of the shoot.
Model: John. This is ______________'s manager. Im not sure what your trying to pull but it sounds to me like your trying to weesle a free shoot. _______________ gets paid for her shoots. You should understand that we just want to make sure bad pics do not get posted anywhere. We are just trying to protect her image.
Me:And I'm just trying to protect my wallet. So unfortunately, I will not be able to accomodate your needs. I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.
Model: Well that sure was a waist of time! What an awesome manager! He actually prevented this model from getting a paying job. Now that's what I call talent! Oh, wait... isn't he supposed to help her get paying work? And doesn't he need a license for that?
Why do these "models" listen to these idiots...?
Photographer
Kinetic Photography
Posts: 517
Managers and agents are the biggest POS on the planet. They hinder a models/artists career more than they help it. Most of them have HUGE egos and attitudes. They are also HORRIBLE at business. Other than that they are great
Photographer
Kinetic Photography
Posts: 517
btw - i have contacted more than a few new models who just got "managers" and i offered paying gigs. the models have never worked before and the agent is demanding big time money. I let them know that the model isnt worth that much money and they should lower their pay demand. the manager always then tells me to go find an "internet model". I usually call them back a year later, knowing full well the model isnt finding work and let them know they are POOR
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Kinetic Photography wrote:
btw - i have contacted more than a few new models who just got "managers" and i offered paying gigs. the models have never worked before and the agent is demanding big time money. I let them know that the model isnt worth that much money and they should lower their pay demand. the manager always then tells me to go find an "internet model". I usually call them back a year later, knowing full well the model isnt finding work and let them know they are POOR Ever notice that 'models' who live by stupid shit like this typically either have all the same photos a year later and/or their last activity was several months ago?
Photographer
Kinetic Photography
Posts: 517
John Jebbia wrote:
Ever notice that 'models' who live by stupid shit like this typically either have all the same photos a year later and/or their last activity was several months ago? Exactly. I remember a model recently that I saw who I thought had good potential but had very amatuer pictures in her portfolio. I offered a shoot with her for free and her manager called me back and said she was only taking paid jobs. I dont expect to do go very far.
Photographer
James Jackson Fashion
Posts: 11132
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US
John Jebbia wrote:
ap?
So, I'm in negotiations with a 'model' about a paid opportunity for her, when she pulls this shit:
Model: My manager advised me that I must have the right to approve any of the pictures before you use them. So I am interested but we will need to add this to the contract before we shoot. Let me know if this will be a problem.
Me: I'm sorry. I cannot agree to this. Since you would be paid cash on the day of the shoot I would have no assurance from you that any of the images would ever be approved. If I were to agree to this, what would stop you from taking the money and then rejecting every image presented.
However, I am willing to compromise. If you would be willing to defer your pay until you approve of a predetermined number of photos then I am willing to proceed with setting up the shoot.
Model: That sounds like it might work. Let me talk to my manager and get back with you.
Model: Sorry. That will not work. I expect to be paid at the end of the shoot.
Model: John. This is ______________'s manager. Im not sure what your trying to pull but it sounds to me like your trying to weesle a free shoot. _______________ gets paid for her shoots. You should understand that we just want to make sure bad pics do not get posted anywhere. We are just trying to protect her image.
Me:And I'm just trying to protect my wallet. So unfortunately, I will not be able to accomodate your needs. I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.
Model: Well that sure was a waist of time! John, please do the site a favor and forward that conversation to the mods via a CAM thread... they violated the no sluggo policy, and seriously... come on... why subject anyone else to that.
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Paramour Productions wrote:
I need a break, I just responded harshly to another thread and now after reading this one I just spent two minutes punching a bag as hard as I could.
This site (and the bullshit internet modeling mentality) is really starting to get to me.... There is a book in this stuff somewhere crying out to be written and published.
Studio36
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Miss Glass wrote:
where do models find these managers who cannot spell? is it some secret industry standard that model managers may not be able to spell?
the mind boggles. Oh... come on now. When was the last time you saw an institute of higher learning in a trailer park?
Studio36
Photographer
Hoodlum
Posts: 10254
Sacramento, California, US
![https://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/danhood/gifs/slugo-avatar.gif]() If the model is on this site and the slugo is in her acount let us mods know.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Hey John... have you forgotten where you are? Dude... you're NOT in AZ anymore... YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA... land of a billion models... and in this state... it's all about 'the mean green'... golddiggers are swarmin all over this state like flies on caca... so blow off this silicon sister and her manager mister... look to your immediate left and right... there's your next few dozen models... 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 6209
San Diego, California, US
studio36uk wrote:
Oh... come on now. When was the last time you saw an institute of higher learning in a trailer park?
Studio36 U.M.S.
University of MySpace
Photographer
Arizona Shoots
Posts: 28822
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Select Models wrote:
Hey John... have you forgotten where you are? Dude... you're NOT in AZ anymore... YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA... land of a billion models... and in this state... it's all about 'the mean green'... golddiggers are swarmin all over this state like flies on caca... so blow off this silicon sister and her manager mister... look to your immediate left and right... there's your next few dozen models... Why do I always feel drunk after reading one of your posts?
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
John Jebbia wrote:
Why do I always feel drunk after reading one of your posts? John... lol... U think Ur a happy drunk now?... wait til you finish leavin one of my 3 hour multi-model shoots... HaHa... that's a 'high' you'll never forget... ;D
Model
Mz Machina
Posts: 1754
Chicago, Illinois, US
as far as the op , sounds like a bunch o poop to me.
Photographer
4C 41 42
Posts: 11093
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Select Models wrote:
Hey John... have you forgotten where you are? Dude... you're NOT in AZ anymore... YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA... land of a billion models... and in this state... it's all about 'the mean green'... golddiggers are swarmin all over this state like flies on caca... so blow off this silicon sister and her manager mister... look to your immediate left and right... there's your next few dozen models... Geez I wish we had that problem out here.
Model
Kali Doom
Posts: 136
Nashville, Arkansas, US
Select Models wrote:
Hey John... have you forgotten where you are? Dude... you're NOT in AZ anymore... YOU'RE IN CALIFORNIA... land of a billion models... and in this state... it's all about 'the mean green'... golddiggers are swarmin all over this state like flies on caca... so blow off this silicon sister and her manager mister... look to your immediate left and right... there's your next few dozen models... This was highly entertaining. Thank you.
As for the original situation. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Photographer
photosbydmp
Posts: 3808
Shepparton-Mooroopna, Victoria, Australia
cheap drugs have a lot to answer for.
Photographer
Leo Howard
Posts: 6850
Phoenix, Arizona, US
John,
You should have known better than to contact her and her "manager" ( Husband ) she has always been a total flake and always will be.
Didnt we go through this with her once or twice before?
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
John Jebbia wrote:
ap?
So, I'm in negotiations with a 'model' about a paid opportunity for her, when she pulls this shit:
Model: My manager advised me that I must have the right to approve any of the pictures before you use them. So I am interested but we will need to add this to the contract before we shoot. Let me know if this will be a problem.
Me: I'm sorry. I cannot agree to this. Since you would be paid cash on the day of the shoot I would have no assurance from you that any of the images would ever be approved. If I were to agree to this, what would stop you from taking the money and then rejecting every image presented.
However, I am willing to compromise. If you would be willing to defer your pay until you approve of a predetermined number of photos then I am willing to proceed with setting up the shoot.
Model: That sounds like it might work. Let me talk to my manager and get back with you.
Model: Sorry. That will not work. I expect to be paid at the end of the shoot.
Model: John. This is ______________'s manager. Im not sure what your trying to pull but it sounds to me like your trying to weesle a free shoot. _______________ gets paid for her shoots. You should understand that we just want to make sure bad pics do not get posted anywhere. We are just trying to protect her image.
Me:And I'm just trying to protect my wallet. So unfortunately, I will not be able to accomodate your needs. I wish you luck in all of your endeavors.
Model: Well that sure was a waist of time! Did she spell waist that way..?
Model
Dances with Wolves
Posts: 25108
SHAWNEE ON DELAWARE, Pennsylvania, US
John Jebbia wrote:
But the question is...
Where in the world do they get the idea that this would be agreeable to anyone? From their managers. The ever powerful managers.
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