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To all Models- No call/No shows
Here's a bit of advice about professionalism. This goes to all you models out there. If you like to vanish, save your act for the FOX network when costarring with Gale Harrold. Do NOT do it to your photographer. No call/No shows are about the worst thing I can think of for a photog to have to deal with. Thing is, when you don't show or call, we shutterbugs have NO WAY of knowing why you bailed. Perhaps you came down with a nasty fever. Maybe your Aunt Minnie was run over by a cement mixer and you had to rush to her side. And you just may have decided that modeling is not for you and you are going into neurosurgery. Whatever. But for the love of all that's holy, CALL your photographer and tell him! If you have a schedule conflict, if another opportunity came along, if you want to discuss rewriting your contract, fine--any professional worth his salt will be able to deal with all of those. But we can't do anything if you won't call and tell us. Had a very foul experience Sunday for a long-anticipated shoot with a Model Mayhem model. Weather was picture perfect, I'd arranged for location, even invested in new wardrobe for the shoot. And my deal included giving the model rights to the images--since he's a newcomer, I wanted to give him a leg up. But nothing. No call, no show, no anything. (I will not name the model because at this point I don't know if he's lost his Aunt Minnie or anything else from the above list of possibilities. So gossip mongers, please don't ask me who it was.) While a call to me now will do little good--I'm on a new assignment today and the sky is hideously overcast--at least I would know what happened. And models, don't try to say you never read the confirmation message you were sent--MM denotes when a message has been read, so be honest. And that's that. I believe this is meant to be a networking site for professionals. And you can be a "no experience", "any compensation", totally green newbie and still conduct yourself professionally. Otherwise, do us the courtesy of marking your profile with a warning that you may not show up when requested. The red flag would be appreciated. -Briz Oct 09 06 09:09 am Link i have had the same problems myself. love your protfolio by the way. Oct 09 06 09:16 am Link This is obviously a common problem with non agency models, not that agency models do not have shit happen but the agency will send you another quickly. I do agree. What is so hard about a phone call? And do not cancel at the last moment with an email, That is just rude. Oct 09 06 09:17 am Link Brian Douglas Ahern wrote: Who's Gale Harrold? No call/No shows are about the worst thing I can think of for a photog to have to deal with. What's a "photog?" Thing is, when you don't show or call, we shutterbugs have NO WAY of knowing why you bailed. Perhaps you came down with a nasty fever. Maybe your Aunt Minnie was run over by a cement mixer and you had to rush to her side. And you just may have decided that modeling is not for you and you are going into neurosurgery. Whatever. What if Aunt Minnie was borrowing the phone when the unfortunate event took place? Or what if the model wants to be mysterious? Maybe she thinks that if she's a no call/no show, you'll want to shoot her even more. Kind of like "playing hard to get" when dating or something. Had a very foul experience Sunday for a long-anticipated shoot with a Model Mayhem model. Weather was picture perfect, I'd arranged for location, even invested in new wardrobe for the shoot. And my deal included giving the model rights to the images--since he's a newcomer, I wanted to give him a leg up. It's pretty likely that he just changed his mind and didn't feel like telling you. You should get back at him. Maybe offer him some snapping gum, like from those gag sets, or something. While a call to me now will do little good--I'm on a new assignment today and the sky is hideously overcast--at least I would know what happened. And models, don't try to say you never read the confirmation message you were sent--MM denotes when a message has been read, so be honest. But what if Aunt Minnie logged on to the account and was reading his mail!? And that's that. I believe this is meant to be a networking site for professionals. And you can be a "no experience", "any compensation", totally green newbie and still conduct yourself professionally. That is a good quote. Otherwise, do us the courtesy of marking your profile with a warning that you may not show up when requested. The red flag would be appreciated. I'm totally going to put that on my profile. Oct 09 06 09:20 am Link Yay! Another "damn you models that flake" thread! We don't have nearly enough of these. So...who wants to start a fresh "Models who bring escorts" thread? Or a fresh "bondage is immoral" thread? Or a fresh "Damn those GWCs thread"? Anyone? Oct 09 06 09:56 am Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: You know... I don't think you're trying to be helpful Wynd, but I think you might have hit on something there. Oct 09 06 10:02 am Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: "I get tired of "photogs" who have a few bad experiences with models and feel the need to publicly advise the thousands of models on this website not to flake, like we're all individually causing you problems." I can understand that. What I cannot understand is when a model stays in touch with me for weeks at a time coordinating our individual schedules and making preparations for a shoot, for which I invest both time and energy--to say nothing of money, and THEN the model disappears without word one. If my model had called to cancel at the last minute, I would have been very displeased and even infuriated, but at least I would have had some closure. As it happened, I had no idea if he had overslept, blew off the appointment, or was dead in a ditch somewhere having been in an accident en route. Yes, I took the no call/no show very personally, and my heated tone to that end in my post was deliberate. My business is very important to me, and I take my work and my profession seriously. I did not address the models in general as if you were all "individually causing me problems". What I advised, quite simply, was to call. That's it. Flake if you want, but--if you prefer to be flip--call and say, "Sorry, I'm flaking today!" And it does sound as if you feel I was attacking you personally. I was not. I have no clue who you are. Besides, if you're not a male model, I most likely won't be shooting you for a male model shoot, anyway. But I can pass this along to you: Call your photographer if you plan to cancel. Plain enough? Oct 09 06 10:59 am Link Tape Her Up wrote: Oct 09 06 11:04 am Link Wynd started a thread the other day..the question wasnt "clear" enough, and it was also stated that there was a "language barrier" from it, from another person that commented to the question. ..well, since the question wasn't clear enough...it got people talkin trash about me. Thanks Wynd..., you coudlnt' reuined my rep there! Looks like you just go in to threads to say something that people don't clearly know what you're talking about and then gets us in trouble. Oct 09 06 11:09 am Link Had my first no call-no show Sunday, but hey, 1 out of 16, was one hell of a run. Oct 09 06 11:12 am Link Oh goodie, another flake thread. I'm glad someone finally got around to mentioning this. I don't think it's been discussed nearly enough. Excuse me while I go hang myself now. Oct 09 06 11:14 am Link In the over 20 years i have been shooting i have more no call/no shows that anyone would care to count. Just suck it up and grow up. You want a as close to a shure thing as possible got to an agency. At least there is someone else responsible. It's not just internet models either. SO that life get over it and get on with it. When i find the cure i'll let you know Oct 09 06 11:17 am Link Has anyone noticed that it seems to be the photographers who can relate to the frustration of having a model disappear after planning, and all the post griping about my mentioning are from models? Enough already. I posted this as a means of passing a word of advice (and warning) along to potential--and I stress potential--professional up and comers here and it's being rapidly reduced to foolishness by the flippant. From here on I'll restrict myself to making comments on portfolios and truly professional models I appreciate and admire. I suspect those posts will simply be ignored. And perhaps by refraining from forum posts and keeping my comments strictly between myself and other photographers, those "models who flake" will get the point when the calls stop coming in. Oct 09 06 11:21 am Link Not only do unprofessional models not show up but they also respond to serious situations like this as if it if the photographers fault for expecting models to act professionally. Maybe the noose around the neck is a good idea... (j/k) I have had the same bad experiences with 18-21 year old models who are so considerate and unprofessional I want to choke. I pretty much rule out working with younger models now unless I have a deposit in hand. James Oct 09 06 11:27 am Link It is tough brian, one model flakes and the nooses are strung up for all of us. On an open forum like this one where there are a number of very good models who participate in these threads these are not the flake models. I have had several models ask me for info, leads, advice, hell even whine that they don't get as many jobs as I do. I offer them the best info I can and have even given them leads and such if they don't take it not my problem. As a photograher I know that flakes happen and I have been working on a system to work them out, and yes we do congregate around the profesionals and leave the flakes in the dust. Oct 09 06 11:28 am Link Brian Douglas Ahern wrote: Dude, your skin is way to thin. This site is fun and that's it. You may get lucky and get one out of three models that will actually show. Oct 09 06 11:28 am Link and who says maury's show keeps doing the "you arent the babys father" topic? lol personally, if its that much of a problem, get company models. its like depending on the college girls and what not to either shell out $500 of money they dont have or quit studying and everything else they have going on in their lives to show up for a photo shoot to get 5 pics theyll like tops is the theme thats been tried too many times. company models as we all know via the other 324234908423908490234312 threads about the same subject are less of a risk with it, and its something that until you try it just once, these same threads will be the focal point of the forums. Oct 09 06 11:31 am Link There are actually a few of us models out there who aren't agency models yet still take what we do seriously enough to show up to a scheduled shoot prepared and ready to work. Just sayin..... Oct 09 06 11:34 am Link Brian Douglas Ahern wrote: I think maybe you're only seeing what you want to see. There are plenty of photographers who flake as well. I've had it happen. I've never flaked on a shoot. The few times I've needed to cancel, I've done it with plenty of time for a replacement to be found. There are professionals on here, problem is, you get what you pay for. Now I'm sure there are plenty of models who flake on paid jobs as well, but the good, professional ones won't. Keep shooting wannabes with no pics (because they've never shown up for an actual shoot) and you'll keep getting flakes. As models do, check references. Oct 09 06 11:42 am Link Brian Douglas Ahern wrote: That's funny...I coulda swore I was a photographer. I mean, my portfolio says Photographer on it and I'm pretty sure at my last shoot I was the one taking the pictures and Tomiko was the one tied up on the bed. Maybe I got it wrong... Oct 09 06 01:09 pm Link Marksora wrote: This is exactly the reason, why it scares the he|| out of me to commit to a shoot with an Internet (MM) model. With an agency wrapper, you're pretty much guaranteed to get someone appropriate, even if a last-minute conflict comes up with the intended model. Oct 09 06 01:17 pm Link Brian Douglas Ahern wrote: A warning? Although I'm a photographer, I'm tired of the same old threads being rehashed again and again. Sure it is irritating when it happens ... but how often does anyone have a complete no show/no call? This is not better a warning than to say "don't walk across the street when there is traffic coming!" or "don't drive your car when drunk!" Someone is going to get killed by in a traffic accident! All the warnings in the World wont prevent it. Do people need to be reminded to not step out in front of traffic or to not drive while drinking? I guess some do! Oct 09 06 01:24 pm Link John Allan wrote: Hey John, nice portfolio! I notice you are on MySpace? Agency models? I rarely if ever use an agency. In fact not even one single model in my profile here on MM is from an agency. NO EVEN ONE! I use the Internet because there are no reputable agencies near me. In the 5 years time ... only one model has been a complete no show/no call and that really was because her grandpa died that day (she had to fly off to Canada and forgot her cell phone.) And that time it wasn't even for a photo shoot, it was for an event where I needed models in a trade show booth. I over booked and didn't suffer without her being there. Oct 09 06 01:32 pm Link Yes,yes,yes. It's all bullshit. Everyone has there "time" and time limit. In this case remember... MM is a "freesite", so maybe you are getting what you pay for. I just asked (in a very nice way) 10 models if they would like to do a shoot with me. After ONE WEEK I heard back from only 2 models. I guess the others either #1: Forgot HOW to check their email, or #2: Yah, they're just rude. Nobody says you can't be rude. Oct 09 06 01:41 pm Link ZingArts wrote: Not getting a reply by e-mail is not the same thing as having booked the model and her or him not showing up! Heck, I get so much e-mail that I shouldn't be on the forum right now, I should be answering it! But it is not even half as rude as no show/no call. Oct 09 06 01:45 pm Link I once had a model, who proudly stated on her port that she had never not shown up for a shoot, not show up the day of the shoot. No word, nothing. To this day no apology, Star Oct 09 06 01:59 pm Link My biggest peave is watching photographers and models beat the snot out of each other verbally all day long on this site about THINGS THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE. There will always be creepy, perverted photographers. There will always be flaky models. Breast implants are here to stay. Escorts are a fact of life. LIVE WITH IT. Some shoot TFP, but it's not for everybody Some are in this business to make money, others for pleasure. respect that Some people like nudes, other people are offended by them. It is what it is. Beating your head against the wall about things that will never change only drives YOU slowly insane. Certain things are with us forever: death, taxes, seat belt laws, crooked politicians, people that roll through stop signs, etc. These things will not go away. Face it. You'll sleep better. Oct 09 06 02:09 pm Link I feel you... A model contacted me, setup a date and time, and even confirmed with me through IM and a phone call... When I arrived at the agreed location, she was not there... Her excuse, she decided to go "run around" with some friends and do a bit of socializing... Left me in the breeze... But, life goes on... Oct 09 06 02:14 pm Link the key, i think is good communication all the way up to the day of or day before a shoot....emails, cell phone calls, details. i have had good luck, aside from a bad weekend in chicago (which caused me to start a thread on this subject a couple weeks ago). maybe models should be locked up in a motel room somewhere on the day before a shoot, kinda like some football teams do before the big game! Oct 09 06 02:20 pm Link Image K wrote: That is the BEST post reply I've ever read here! This should be manditory for all to read! Oct 09 06 02:20 pm Link FosbreStudios wrote: Haha. Oct 09 06 02:27 pm Link To point out one significant aspect here...professional vs. unprofessional. A few weeks back, had a scheduled shoot with a model. A half hour prior to the shoot she calls and tells me that she is experiencing a child care nightmare and will have to cancel the shoot. While I wasn't angry, I was certainly disappointed. I could have simply written her off as a flake. I didn't though, because I appreciated that she took the time to be a pro and call. I rescheduled with her, we shot yesterday, and I was in awe the entire day. She was early to the shoot, came abundantly prepared, and busted her ass all day long. I would not, and will not, hesitate to make this woman option #1 on my list if an assignment called for someone like her. So what's my point? I went to her again because she simply showed the courtesy to call. I could feel how upset she was the first day at having to cancel, and I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Was it the right decision? Absolutely. Others models who display the same type of courtesy will be afforded more forgiveness because of her efforts. Each of us will experience and nightmares, regardless of how prepared we are. Treat them professionally, and you just might see your second chance pay off. Oct 09 06 02:30 pm Link Sounds like the old Charlie Brown and Lucy football gag Oct 09 06 03:48 pm Link Image K wrote: HERE HERE Couldn't be said any better!!! Oct 09 06 04:16 pm Link With threads like this, two words into it, I hear the teacher from Charlie Brown and this image pops into my head...  You are not the first and definitely not the last... get over it... don't hire internet models if it's such a problem for you... Oct 09 06 06:09 pm Link Lamonica wrote: That was so out-of-line!!! Oct 09 06 06:12 pm Link I whish you kids would understand the amount of energy and focus it takes preparing for a photo shoot. Oct 09 06 06:25 pm Link Models that flake must be the most popular topic in these forums (followed by photographers who do provide the images they promised). Some models are just flakes by nature. Does anyone really think that b!tching about that here will do any good? However, in these cases, we tend to hear only one side of the story. I wonder -- what has the photographer done to improve the likelihood that the model will show up. For example: >>> Did the model come with good references? Were references checked? >>> Did the photographer do everything possible to incent the model? >>> Did the photographer communicate the sitting concepts, and was the model enthused & excited about the sitting? >>> Did the model feel that the photographer was a good match for her? >>> Was the agreement clear? >>> Did the photographer choose a time & place that was convenient for the model? >>> Was the model treated with respect? >>> Did the photographer have a constructive & enthusiastic attitude? >>> How "professional" was the photographer in dealing with the model? Yes, it's a shame when a model doesn't show up. But sorry guys, I'm not willing to believe that 100% of the time, the no-show was the model's fault. Then, what do I know -- I never had a no-show/no-call. Oct 09 06 06:49 pm Link Lets try and look at this from a models view. In most cases she's getting photos for her time and beyond any argument of if your work is valuable or not. Photos in many cases have only a real value to the photographer. Most of the models here aren't going to any agencies. They aren't going to casting calls. They aren't in many cases going to do anything with those cool photos you give them expect post them here or at places like Myspace, frankly I'm surprised more models don't flake. Don't get me wrong there are many models here who are really focused (pardon the pun) but for every serious model there are two who are not. So with you just providing photos, anything thats more fun and your forgotten. Its not personal, they may even like you but shooting isn't that important to them. The key is to try and determine whenever possible which model your dealing with. Ask questions like what are your modeling goals, how many photographers you've worked with. Listen to not only the answers but how their stated and if she sounds bored. The thing to always remember is we as photographers are often asking models who are complete strangers to us to first trust that we will treat them with respect. (many come without escorts.) Then that we will give them the photos that we promise but most important we are asking that models share in our artistic vision, all for photos that may or may not look good and again may not have any monetary value to a model. Don't get me wrong, no call, no show models make me angry but I do understand some of how they think. Oct 09 06 07:18 pm Link Image K wrote: NICELY PUT... if these things bug you that much youre in the wrong field of work ! Quit Oct 09 06 07:23 pm Link |
