Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
FaceReality wrote:
MrHotShot wrote:
The request could've been for a shot of her big toe. What's the difference?
Pffft you really miss the point. you're grasping at big toes holding straws.
but let's bring this into some sort of perspective. knowing what you know and taking yourself out of consideration to do the photography, if you had a 15 year old daughter what advice would be given toward investing in a modeling portfolio if you thought there might not be a chance to return that investment? i'm sure you would advise to go find someone that would relish in laughing all the way to the bank instead of seeking honest valued opinion by one that understands the requirements.
looks like you lost out in more ways than one. no payment and no opportunity to bring a 15 year old without agency level stats to your next swimwear and glammer clients.
oh well. better luck next time.
--face reality I didn't lose out in the least.....the phone call was the only investment I had. So even if she was "up to your worthy stature", or 5'9" or taller, does that even guarantee she will make it in modeling? BTW it's spelled "glamour" you blue blooded prick. 
Love,
Jay
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
I guess we should all tell our clients unless you are Ford Modeling agency caliber, then piss off.....yea that will make friends
Photographer
Emeritus
Posts: 22000
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
It's true that nobody, least of all a photographer who makes a living at it, is under any obligation to do a TFP shoot with anyone. He should have every right to decline such a request. However, the way he does it matters. Jay Farrell wrote:
I guess we should all tell our clients unless you are Ford Modeling agency caliber, then piss off.....yea that will make friends No, not at all.
I understand the notion many photographers have that it is not their job to judge who can be a model. Frankly, I think that's a little disingenuous, but as long as the photographer is consistent about it, it seems an acceptable practice. It's even true that not all photographers know what it takes to be an agency model.
But when you are going to make that judgment and tell the potential client, it seems you need to be honest from the start. If the client wants a "model portfolio" and isn't "model material", either say so or not - up front.
As presented it sounded like one of the standard "model portfolio" packages that was being sold: "Then I told her about a package I offer that I thought would suit her best....." Maybe it's me, but that doesn't sound like "I'd like to offer you my glamour and swimwear package because that's what you are suited for". Did I misread that?
It's only when sales are clearly not going to happen that the mother hears that she isn't qualified for "agency" work.
What I find curious is that it's OK to make a sale based on "what would suit her best", and then change what you say about what she is suited for after the sale falls through. It just doesn't seem right to me.
By all means, turn down TFPs you don't want to do. No argument. But under the circumstances I can easily imagine the mother feeling that she had been led astray in the first part of the conversation, and being upset about it.
Photographer
none of the above
Posts: 3528
Marina del Rey, California, US
Jay Farrell wrote:
BTW it's spelled "glamour" you blue blooded prick.
Love,
Jay good one!
--face reality
Photographer
Stan The Man
Posts: 733
Brooklyn, Indiana, US
plain and simple "Y BUY A COW WHEN YOU CA GET THE MILK 4 FREE"
and it ges for everything from relationship 2 business deal!! oh well such is life.. simple example my family will not pay to have ther portrait done and they will not go to sears or JC Pen.... stanley got to do it!!! now on the other end i can always count on them if i need a new reflector
Photographer
Vegas Alien
Posts: 1747
Armington, Illinois, US
And skating schools shouldn't take students if they don't have the ability to make the Olympic team.
If anyone is going to attack a working photographer for charging for what was described, why not instead focus your efforts on Barbizon "modeling school?" You want to talk about bad advice??? They do not teach models to pose, models come away with nothing practical and NO images, yet families get stuck for big money.
Photographer
2020 Vision
Posts: 102
Alton, Illinois, US
Jay Farrell wrote:
she then asked if I did TFP.....
I didn't know what to say, there was dead slience for a second....I was just wondering how anyone not assiciated with a web modeling community would know about that..... TFP has been around for a very long time, I was using that back in 1975.
However I must say, at that time it was not TFP, it was actually spelled out.
Time For Prints. Back in the old days (dating myself) we had to use real film, and had to actually print the photos in our darkroom (dating all that remember that).
The web changed that to TFP and the digital world changed that to TFP/CD.
So it did not leak out from the web modeling community, it leaked into it.
Model
NC17
Posts: 1739
Baltimore, Maryland, US
If you're wondering where the request for TFP came from, have you thought of asking the person that refered the woman/daughter to you? I have no idea the background of the person, or their relation to you. Maybe they mentioned it in passing to the woman. *shrugs* The possibilities are endless. Kudos to you for not doing something when you didn't feel that it was good for you. You've got to stick to your guns, after all, you have to live with you every morning.
To those that are knocking him for not "investing" his time in this: who are you to say what he does and does not have the time to invest in? Good grief, mind your own business. What you would do in the situation is entirely different from what others would do, and thats perfectly ok. Frankly, I'd rather keep it that way. I have to earn 10,000.00 in 8 months. Think I have time to do TFP? Working 2 part time jobs and doing modeling, I think not. Thanks. Don't knock what you don't know.
Photographer
Michael Kirst
Posts: 3231
Los Angeles, California, US
FaceReality wrote:
you really miss the point. you're grasping at big toes holding straws.
but let's bring this into some sort of perspective. knowing what you know and taking yourself out of consideration to do the photography, if you had a 15 year old daughter what advice would be given toward investing in a modeling portfolio if you thought there might not be a chance to return that investment? i'm sure you would advise to go find someone that would relish in laughing all the way to the bank instead of seeking honest valued opinion by one that understands the requirements. Don't get me wrong... I'm all for sharing honesty and/or experience with a new model...if they ask for it. I think you got your point across quite well. The problem is that since it wasn't recieved with all the fanfair you had hoped for, you got miffed.
But hey, I really like that you call me 'hotshot'. I'll take that as a compliment.
Tell me again....which one of these guys are you...?
![https://img4.modelmayhem.com/061007/14/4527fbc760ac2.jpg]()
heh
Photographer
none of the above
Posts: 3528
Marina del Rey, California, US
Michael Kirst wrote:
I think you got your point across quite well. The problem is that since it wasn't recieved with all the fanfair you had hoped for, you got miffed. nah, i wasn't miffed at all. just a little puzzled somewhat on par with a previous comment toward barbizon and the singular point of motivation toward the unsuspecting.
oh, i'm jack. for a mid-day model pick-me-up try one of my delicious hand scooped shakes.
![https://img4.modelmayhem.com/060717/16/44bc04eea9bed.jpg]()
--face reality
nice work, btw...
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