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Am I being overly sensitive?
Not one to play the part of the whiny bitch, but I'm rather curious here... I had sent a greeting message to a lady I'd found on myspace (via another site, as shown in the messages below) and was interested in potentially setting up a shoot with her (she doesn't appear to be present at this site). Clearly, this does not immediately imply (I should think) anything, beyond mere trade. I realize that as she is not likely completely familiar with the processes of photography versus adult content, she may have assumed certain things that were not the case. However...I'm wondering if the response I got from her is as deceptively and subtly patronizing as it seems to me, or if I'm reading more into this entire episode than there actually is there. For your perusal, the initial message I sent to her: ...trying to keep this predominantly formal... Her response: Hey, I'm flattered that you took the time to find me and I appreciate the compliments. I didn't believe that picture was so amazing. Pretty maybe, but not amazing. I'm not really interested in doing a shoot at this time. I really don't want pictures of me to end up on a TGP, website (unless it's my own) or something out of my control. So...let me first requote the above response and include (in bolded italics) what I'm reading between the lines of her sentences: Hey, I'm flattered that you took the time to find me and I appreciate the compliments. I didn't believe that picture was so amazing. Pretty maybe, but not amazing.(I didn't directly compliment the technicality of the photo, yet she seems to be insinuating I apparently have a poor eye when it came to the judgment of the shot...at least that one shot, that is) I'm not really interested in doing a shoot at this time. I really don't want pictures of me to end up on a TGP, website (unless it's my own) or something out of my control.(WTF? She's presuming I'm going to willy-nilly start plastering images I take of her not only to adult thumbnail image gallery sites, but other places she would not be comfortable with? As if...what? I would do so without her consent, or in deliberate violation of any verbal agreement assuming we HAD discussed concerning how she wanted the shots to be used?!) So...am I PMSing here and way out of the ballpark, or is there an underlying something there that isn't just right? Sep 29 06 12:18 am Link Oh...and my reply to her response: The technicality of the image isn't what prompted my response. Sep 29 06 12:24 am Link Yes you're overreacting IMO. You inquired as to a possible shoot, she said thanks for the compliments, i'm not interested and here's why. Seems cut and dry. Sep 29 06 12:26 am Link Ransom J wrote: Cut and dried. Sep 29 06 12:30 am Link Your letter to her sounds too much like a pick up line. I never ask someone who isnt a model to pose directly, I tell them what I have in mind, and ask them if they are willing to discuss it with me. Most can say yes to that, and it gives you a chance to deal with questions easier. But I dont get the whole goth culture. As far as I know you should have sent her a dead chicken. Sep 29 06 12:30 am Link Yes, it does appear that you're reading something between the lines that might not be there. For one specific example, she suggested that she did not want to take a chance on having photos of her in someone else's hands, because they could end up somewhere she doesn't want them to end up. You appear to have taken that as a personal insult. Yet she doesn't know you from Adam, right? I sincerely doubt she intended a personal insult. In fact, it seems like it's possible that she understands that normally photographers own copyrights and get releases from models which might allow them to use the images. And she doesn't appear to want that. However, it's also possible that she understands that there is always the possibility that someone with pictures of her in their possession could do something with them she doesn't want done with them. Doesn't mean she's saying you will, but, again, she doesn't know you from Adam. So how does she know you aren't going to do that? Someone got their hands on all those images over at websites like celebrityskin.com and released them against the will of the subjects. That she doesn't want to risk something like that happening to her does not mean that she's specifically impugning your integrity. As for the reference to the adult site.... She apparently thought you were a good enough photographer to benefit those folks. Again, she doesn't know you. She obviously has no issues with sites like that (since, from what she said, it seems like she knows people who own or run some). So she may not have found anything wrong with referring you there and may even have believed she was giving you a tip, a helping hand. I could say more...bottom line is that, yes, I think you're reading more into this than necessary. Besides, it's all speculative (including what I said). -- Rick Sep 29 06 12:32 am Link Maxwell Digital Art wrote: Yeah that too. I didn't want to expound on it though since you didn't ask. But i was waiting for you to ask her out to dinner and a movie lol. Sep 29 06 12:32 am Link Maxwell Digital Art wrote: Well, where the hell were you when I started this introduction?!?! Could have avoided all of this with a simple poultry purchase. Sheesh. Sep 29 06 12:32 am Link So Shoot Me! wrote: Agreed and thank you. You make some good points. Sep 29 06 12:34 am Link Ransom J wrote: Can I just hire you guys as editors from now on? Someone start a 'proofing' thread in the Critique section so I can make sure I'm sending the right impression to these folks! Sep 29 06 12:35 am Link yea, just let it go and move on Sep 29 06 12:44 am Link Christine Summers wrote: Thanks for your opinion. Sep 29 06 12:46 am Link Greetings, I came across your profile...no, wait...in truth, I was searching for it, as the moment I saw the image of yours hosted on HotGoth.net I went on a hunt for any personal website or myspace profile you might have. That alone perhaps is sufficient information to suggest my obvious visual interest. My last girlfriend just changed her number and I cant find her. Well she wasnt really my girlfriend, but when I see a girl I think is hot I'll do whatever I have to do to track her down. The second part of this message you can probably ascertain by looking over my profile: I'm a digital photographer and webmaster of the website MidnightAngels.com. So the fact that I find your features excrutiatingly intoxicating follows that I pester you for potential artistic collaboration. smile You mention the website, ask her to pose, and when you say its art, you type "smile" like that was a joke. Might as well say "Hey wanna study, wink wink nudge nudge" (translation to normal english-) I'd love to shoot with you. Please feel free to look at MidnightAngels.com and my online portfolio (both of which are linked to via banners on my profile page here) and perhaps you'll find something sufficiently visually appealing there to provoke a response. That would be quite a treat. So, hows the fishing? Catch any compliments today Be well and I look forward to speaking with you soon. All the best, ~Rob I did this as a joke, but that is really how I would have taken your letter if I was her. Girls dont want to be treated like they are the most important thing in a strangers world. Especially if he has an adult site. I didnt look at your site, just going from these posts Sep 29 06 12:47 am Link Maxwell Digital Art wrote: I lol'ed! Sep 29 06 12:50 am Link Maxwell Digital Art wrote: Taken with a smile. *looks at smiley* Wait...does that mean I'm coming on to you now??? I'm so confused!! Sep 29 06 12:53 am Link Something like this If you are willing to discuss it, Id like to show your some of my work, I'm an art photographer. If you like it, I'd like to see if you'd be willing to model for me once or twice. Takes about an hour or two, and in exchange you'd get several art photos and a copy of the raw images which is normally around about 200 or so. Sep 29 06 01:02 am Link Not to be rude, but get a life guy. You came across like some stalker, then when rejected, (very nicely I might add) you read things into it that are not there...then ask for confirmation of your paranoid ideas. Just drop it would be my best advice. Sep 29 06 01:26 am Link Just wanted to give a reply from a models point of view, and how i would have read into your initial email.. I've also listed what i feel would be better in bold. Greetings, I came across your profile...no, wait...in truth, I was searching for it, as the moment I saw the image of yours hosted on HotGoth.net I went on a hunt for any personal website or myspace profile you might have. That alone perhaps is sufficient information to suggest my obvious visual interest. I came across a photo of you on hotgoth.net, and immediately knew you had a look I would love to have in my portfolio. So I did a little research to find you on here, and am so glad that I did. The second part of this message you can probably ascertain by looking over my profile: I'm a digital photographer and webmaster of the website MidnightAngels.com. There isnât anything wrong with this particular part, however in my experience people who use fluff, or big words that are un-needed in their writing are usually just trying to make themselves look smart vs actually being smart, that or they wind up being very arrogant when you meet them in person. So to avoid sounding like one of the many arrogant people out there (which I really donât think you are) maybe something like this would be better. As you can see by looking at my profile, I am a digital photographer and webmaster of the site midnightangels.com So the fact that I find your features excrutiatingly intoxicating follows that I pester you for potential artistic collaboration. Ok, honestly there is absolutely no need for this line at all. If I were to get this in an email I probably would not even reply. It seriously makes you sound like a perv. (please realize Iâm not calling you a perv, just saying thatâs how it is coming across.) (translation to normal english-) I'd love to shoot with you. Please feel free to look at MidnightAngels.com and my online portfolio (both of which are linked to via banners on my profile page here) and perhaps you'll find something sufficiently visually appealing there to provoke a response. That would be quite a treat. Again with the fluff. All that really needs to be said is Please take a look at my work and let me know if it is something that could benefit your portfolio as well. Be well and I look forward to speaking with you soon. All the best, ~Rob Also you may have wanted to explain in your initial email that you are looking to work tfp and the images would be used specifically for portfolio development, or whatever you wanted to use them for. Then the model wouldnât have had to assume that you wanted to photograph her for your paid website. Sep 29 06 01:44 am Link Yes. Sep 29 06 01:50 am Link Scribe of Souls wrote: Are you intentionally idiotic and of the mentality to rub people like sandpaper, or is it a subconscious character flaw of yours? This has nothing to do with the topic. How you conclude I lack a "life" (whatever that means in your world) from the delineated sequence of events above, I do not know. Scribe of Souls wrote: And you can't read either, smart ass. Check the replies. Everyone has voiced the opinion that I probably overreacted. Nowhere have I whined at the responses or demanded confirmation of my thoughts...in fact I've agreed with the comments and thanked people for their input. Sep 29 06 01:55 am Link hmmm. Yes I think her message was rude, however, to be honest i think that you might have come off sounding just a little like a stalker. I def. would have been a little weary if I got your message. Just my thoughts, lol, though I'm sure you shoot great work! P.S. please don't copy my message and blog about me ;-) Sep 29 06 01:56 am Link yeah, sorry bro the intro letter was off-putting if I were a chick & got one of those I'd say no, or at least insist on a goon escort Sep 29 06 01:56 am Link Amy Rose wrote: Thanks for giving me a different eye into the issue. Personal flaw of mine: the use of an unecessarily expansive vocabulary. If you talk to people who know me, though...you realize it's not an attempt to augment my apparent intelligence. It's just how I actually talk *shrug*. I can see how it can be taken a bit strangely, though. Sep 29 06 01:59 am Link Kristin Excell wrote: Lol...cute little dig. *copy & pasting* Sep 29 06 02:03 am Link Wynd Mulysa wrote: Whew. That's a total relief! Sep 29 06 02:03 am Link SLE Photography wrote: Well, this is important to know. Makes me wonder how I've gotten as fortunate as I have thus far... Sep 29 06 02:04 am Link Maxwell Digital Art wrote: Will I have to pay you royalties for the use of this, or can I fill out a buy-out contract? Sep 29 06 02:06 am Link Nihilus wrote: Please don't take offence to that.. It's not always the case, just alot of the time.. I actually have alot of very good friends who talk the same way, who are far from arrogant. Just that in an initial email I feel it's better to be to short and to the point. Sep 29 06 02:09 am Link Trying to get a tally of informative rules out of all of this: #1) Write expecting the model/lady to assume you're a creep trying to get into her pants. #2) Pithy and concise. Few if any compliments. Any others? (Note: Although this list is made in jest, I do actually realize that, in practice, it may be a very functional a useful strategy.) Sep 29 06 02:10 am Link Amy Rose wrote: No, no. You're right. Even my Dad (who is part of the reason I've always been so focused on grammar, pronunciation and vocabulary) teases me about it from time to time. Sep 29 06 02:12 am Link It is absolutly ok to compliment a model. But do it simply. Say something like I love your look. Or I think you are very beautiful. Just don't put things like excrutiatingly intoxicating. Sep 29 06 02:13 am Link Amy Rose wrote: lol yeah right, that line even made ME quiver! Who wouldn't want to shoot with someone who thinks your Amy Rose wrote: ;-) jk Sep 29 06 02:16 am Link maybe your in the wrong line of work! I would buy any darn book that you decided to write! Sep 29 06 02:17 am Link Kristin Excell wrote: Amy Rose wrote: lol yeah right, that line even made ME quiver! Who wouldn't want to shoot with someone who thinks your All you excrutiatingly average models are so below me... Sep 29 06 02:18 am Link Amy Rose wrote: Exactly. If/ when I contact a model for a collaboration i simply state that i liked her look, thoughtshe would be suitable for _____ project and what said project entails, refer her to my portfolio for her discernment, and let her know if a MUA and or stylist will be on hand for the shoot. Simple, to the point and if they have any more questions i find out in the return message. Sep 29 06 02:18 am Link I definitely agree with that.. Your extensive vocab would definitely make for some powerful reading.. Have you ever thought about writing.. Sep 29 06 02:19 am Link Nihilus wrote: I myself have a large vocabulary too(damn B.A. in English), but when you mix in large words and *smile* you come acrossed as someone who is really trying. Keep all contact with a potential model, especially someone off a non-modeling website, very professional, keep it simple(think what you would read in the newspaper) but don't throw in or *giggle* or any of the mangled lanuage used in a blog. Sep 29 06 02:20 am Link Ok, now maybe i'm reading into things wrong, but ouch.. That was harsh.. lol.. Sep 29 06 02:21 am Link Amy Rose wrote: Oh....I SEE!! It's okay for the models to compliment the photographers...but not the other way around?!? Sep 29 06 02:23 am Link Lazyi Photography wrote: *vigorously scribbling notes* Sep 29 06 02:24 am Link |